MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[Samd]

I've had a few stealth owners ask if they can make a simple swap / upgrade to a MXUS v2.

In my mind there would be two challenges:
1)The temp sensor being configured to the Stealth cycle analyst:
- Should be easily done if Stealth dont lock this out somehow:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66305&start=50#p1013306
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66472#p999176

2) The clyte controller being compatible with a MXUS 3000. I'm thinking it's pretty likely.

I guess it couldnt be done on newer stealths that lack cycle analysts.

Anyone have views on the above?

 

[Rix]

I've had a few stealth owners ask if they can make a simple swap / upgrade to a MXUS v2.

In my mind there would be two challenges:
1)The temp sensor being configured to the Stealth cycle analyst:
- Should be easily done if Stealth dont lock this out somehow:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66305&start=50#p1013306
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66472#p999176

2) The clyte controller being compatible with a MXUS 3000. I'm thinking it's pretty likely.

I guess it couldnt be done on newer stealths that lack cycle analysts.

Anyone have views on the above?

The only guy thus far I know that has ran a MXUS on a Bomber was Allex, I don't think this counts as Allex was running a Adaptor MAX E and a gnarly battery.

 

[Samd]

Yeah thats true. I have a Clyte controller in invetory somewhere Rix, *I think*
(I think thats what Stealth runs). Might give it a spool up.

Any idea the stock CA on the stealth is able to be reconfigured? I thought they might lock it maybe out to stop tweakers...

 

[Allex]

The stock bikes with CA does not have any Temp sensors inside their motors so you don't have to think about that. This means that it is easier to install this mxus on bombers before the DC1 computer(they came with temp sensors somewhere in 2014)

 

[Samd]

The stock bikes with CA does not have any Temp sensors inside their motors so you don't have to think about that. This means that it is easier to install this mxus on bombers before the DC1 computer(they came with temp sensors somewhere in 2014)

Oh heck, that is simple.
Good news for older stealth owners!

 

[teslanv]

The MXUS 4503_V2 (3T) and 4506V2 (6T) motors are now included on the ebike.ca simulator.

Already wasted an hour testing scenarios.

Bottom Line: If you want higher speed, it's more efficient to have higher voltage and a smaller tire, than lower voltage and a larger tire.

 

[John in CR]

Bottom Line: If you want higher speed, it's more efficient to have higher voltage and a smaller tire, than lower voltage and a larger tire.

With a hubmotor It's always more efficient to have a smaller tire. 8)

 

[Doctorbass]

The MXUS 4503_V2 (3T) and 4506V2 (6T) motors are now included on the ebike.ca simulator.

Already wasted an hour testing scenarios.

Bottom Line: If you want higher speed, it's more efficient to have higher voltage and a smaller tire, than lower voltage and a larger tire.

excellent new !!!!

 

[madin88]

Bottom Line: If you want higher speed, it's more efficient to have higher voltage and a smaller tire, than lower voltage and a larger tire.

With a hubmotor It's always more efficient to have a smaller tire. 8)

often the higher kV motors end up with a lower copper fill (Justin also notices this) and this destroys the benefit.
a short while ago i did a comparsion between TC80 (kv like 4T mxus) in 24" wheel with 23s lipo and TC100 (kv like 3T mxus) with 22" wheel and 20s lipo. this wheel sizes i normally use on my bikes.
the topspeed was identical and also at different grades, but the slow wound motor in larger wheel in most cases always was the more efficient motor (aside from climbing 15-20% grades)
thats bad. isn't it?

 

[madin88]

MXUS 3T in 22" wheel VS MXUS 4T in 24" wheel. adjusted voltage for similar topspeed on flat.

where is the benefit of the small wheel normally it should mean less torque needed for same thrust so less heat and higher efficiency, but its NOT much noticeable - even at 20% grade !!

 

[teslanv]

You need to run the simulations separately, and at the same speed to get a better idea of how wheel size and turn count affects efficiency.

If you study the two examples below, you will see that for the same speed, it takes 72 less battery watts to propel the bicycle with a 3T motor in a 21.5" diameter tire, than it does to propel the exact same bicycle with a 4T motor in a 26" wheel.

 

[markz]

The MXUS 4503_V2 (3T) and 4506V2 (6T) motors are now included on the ebike.ca simulator.

Already wasted an hour testing scenarios.

Bottom Line: If you want higher speed, it's more efficient to have higher voltage and a smaller tire, than lower voltage and a larger tire.

Thanks for the heads up teslanv and the "Bottom Line", nice to break things down to simple terms a layman can understand.

What were the initial issues you were having with the 3T?

Does top speed really matter after anything like 50kph? Might as well build a motorbike with pedals to skirt the lawman.

 

[teslanv]

The MXUS 4503_V2 (3T) and 4506V2 (6T) motors are now included on the ebike.ca simulator.

Already wasted an hour testing scenarios.

Bottom Line: If you want higher speed, it's more efficient to have higher voltage and a smaller tire, than lower voltage and a larger tire.

Thanks for the heads up teslanv and the "Bottom Line", nice to break things down to simple terms a layman can understand.

What were the initial issues you were having with the 3T?

The 3T has really low phase resistance. As a result, it is hard on controllers at high currents. - At more moderate current levels (=<50A Battery/=<100APhase) it rides quite nicely.
I don't think this is unique to the MXUS motor. I think this is a challenge with all DD Hub Motors with low phase resistance.

When I race mine on high battery & phase currents, I completely detach the Cycle Analyst (No limiting) and run WOT. The motor growls like crazy at high battery/phase currents, and the throttle is really twitchy. But Holy crap, it's fun.

 

[madin88]

If you study the two examples below, you will see that for the same speed, it takes 72 less battery watts to propel the bicycle with a 3T motor in a 21.5" diameter tire, than it does to propel the exact same bicycle with a 4T motor in a 26" wheel.

yes the simulations are not 100% correct, but the point i want to show is 3T motor has about 1% less general efficiency and if you consider of running a 3T in 22" wheel you also could take 4T in 24" wheel for instance.
efficiency will be similar when not even better if we compare consumption on flat at speeds below about 80kmh. during (hard) acceleration or climbing steep grades things probably will change..

 

[teslanv]

the point i want to show is 3T motor has about 1% less general efficiency and if you consider of running a 3T in 22" wheel you also could take 4T in 24" wheel for instance.
efficiency will be similar when not even better if we compare consumption on flat at speeds below about 80kmh. during (hard) acceleration or climbing steep grades things probably will change..

yes, this is the nuance of the relationship of motor winding and wheel size for a given winding.

All else being equal, a given winding of motor will run more efficiently with a smaller diameter tire. However when you compare different windings AND different wheel sizes, then things get a little more complicated. A 4T winding will run more efficiently than a 3T winding in the same size wheel. When comparing different windings and different wheel sizes, efficiency ultimately boils down to how many amps are required to provide a given thrust. That is the point where efficiency will be identiacal between motor windings and wheel sizes. Copper fill also has a little to do with efficiency, since the 3T has only 63 strands of copper fill, while the 4T has 64 strands, so the 4T can handle 1/64 (1.5%) more current than the 3T motor.

A quick analysis using the simulator shows that the 3T winding achieves its highest efficiency with a 19" Tire, while the 4T achieves its maximum efficiency with a 20.75" tire and the 6T with a 25" tire.
(I used a 50V battery and a 40A IRBF4110 Controller, Mountain Bike with 150kg Load)

However, if you increase the voltage, current, and thus, speed, the Maximum efficient tire size decreases for each Winding.

At 100V battery & 80A Controller, a 3T would be most efficient with a 14.5" Tire, a 4T with a 15.25" Tire and a 6T with a 18.25" Tire.

 

[markz]

At 100V battery & 80A Controller, a 3T would be most efficient with a 14.5" Tire, a 4T with a 15.25" Tire and a 6T with a 18.25" Tire.

15" tire would be too small, seems like for a bicycle setup the 6T would be better for efficiency at 18.25", but 4T better copper fill. Who Knows?

 

[Doctorbass]

Today I have measured the Inductance of the 3T ( phase to phase) and i get the same inductance as my old 5303 3T ( about 230uH)
On the ebike simulator i get about 5-6% higher efficiency on the MXUS.

Doc

 

[madin88]

inductance of Cromotor (18x4T, 9.3kV) is 145µH according to zelena vozila.
This would mean 3T MXUS is even more controller friendly. good to know.

 

[John in CR]

The 230uH doesn't sound right to me.

Re the earlier posts about wheel size and matching to motors, the simple fact is that for any given DD hubmotor, it will perform better and more efficiently with the smaller wheel. That means use the smallest wheel you can live with, and if you need more speed then raise the voltage. The fact that MXUS is unwilling to fit an extra strand of copper for the 3T, so it's less efficient than it could be is irrelevant. How people ride along with too high a phase/battery current limit ratio make a far bigger difference in overall efficiency that a 1% diff shown in the simulator.

 

[Doctorbass]

The 230uH doesn't sound right to me.

Re the earlier posts about wheel size and matching to motors, the simple fact is that for any given DD hubmotor, it will perform better and more efficiently with the smaller wheel. That means use the smallest wheel you can live with, and if you need more speed then raise the voltage. The fact that MXUS is unwilling to fit an extra strand of copper for the 3T, so it's less efficient than it could be is irrelevant. How people ride along with too high a phase/battery current limit ratio make a far bigger difference in overall efficiency that a 1% diff shown in the simulator.

John measure it by yourself... i know how to measure inductance. All my 3 different lcr meter give +/-10% the same result....
Witch number woukd you expect?

Doc

 

[korpin]

I plan on using 90 volt system usually around 25 amps and once in a while maybe 45 amps..bottom line .....are the stock phase wires good enough?...thinking mostly are they good enough for climbing?

 

[Samd]

Yes for 25a I wouldn't touch them. I don't think any of my customers have bothered on a V2.

 

[grga]

where to buy this motor (V2), how about it's price?

 

[edventure]

where to buy this motor (V2), how about it's price?

Teslanv had opened a store in the US to distribute these state side. Here is the link, you could probably PM him too. http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com

Ed

 

[Relanium]

Hey, the guy's croatian.
e4bike.ru can deliver to you