MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[markz]

I know, this motor seems pretty good to me. I meant crazy as in awesome!
What other motors on the ebikes.ca motor simulator list are close to this motor?

So I can assume the ebikes.ca listing on motor simulator is 4504_V2, check this out........crazy!
20% grade, overheats in 4 minutes @ 12km/h.......crazy!

Try that same simulation with a crown TC40100.
Any motor will overheat if you put it through that torture.

So your saying the Crown TC40100 is better?
If I remember correctly, thats a $1g note motor right?

 

[teslanv]

The TC40100 and TC4080 motors are the closest CLytes to compare to the MXUS motors.
They are more expensive than the MXUS motors.

 

[Rix]

I know, this motor seems pretty good to me. I meant crazy as in awesome!
What other motors on the ebikes.ca motor simulator list are close to this motor?

So I can assume the ebikes.ca listing on motor simulator is 4504_V2, check this out........crazy!
20% grade, overheats in 4 minutes @ 12km/h.......crazy!

Try that same simulation with a crown TC40100.
Any motor will overheat if you put it through that torture.

So your saying the Crown TC40100 is better?
If I remember correctly, thats a $1g note motor right?

Near as I can tell, the Tc4080 and MXUX 4T are almost identical on Justin's simulator. Given same volts amps input, they are with in couple of pounds of thrust of each other and only about 2mph difference at voltages above 80. That said, the TC4080 does have the upper hand on thrust force, but the mxus is 2% more efficient doing the same work. So my educated guess in the TC40100 and MXUS 3T will be close as well. All of this said, the MXUS is a lot cheaper, making it the better deal.

 

[Samd]

I'm thinking the crown has thicker lams, and I imagine it would weigh more. It's much bigger than the Mxus motors in my stock for sure...

 

[Samd]

Will Justin add the MXUS 3000 to the spoke calculator now he has the motors in his hands

If you use a 232 mm diameter and 45mm flange width you can drop it in to the simulator. You'll just need to add your own rim ERD depending on what you choose. Cheers.

 

[ozman]

Will Justin add the MXUS 3000 to the spoke calculator now he has the motors in his hands

If you use a 232 mm diameter and 45mm flange width you can drop it in to the simulator. You'll just need to add your own rim ERD depending on what you choose. Cheers.

Thanks Sam

 

[markz]

Well, I was playing around with it. And if you move the wheel diameter smaller, you get longer range, less speed of course. It was interesting to see that with my own eyes on the motor simulator.

 

[korpin]

The MXUS 3000W motor is now on the ebikes.CA simulator.
Select "MXUS 4504_V2"

90% peak efficiency.

90% is really impressive for a relatively cheap motor. Nice work MXUS! Can't wait to see how the Quanshun motor compares. Thanks Justin!

so 4504 is 4 turn motor???

 

[korpin]

@korpin maybe you could rip off 2 largest sprockets off your 9 speed?

did not even know you could do that

Yes you can . the cogs are often like this, you can unscrew the cassette and remover as needed.
You will see where the 3 screws are holding the cassette together. Undo those and take cassette apart and remove as much or little as needed for the width to fit.

Just follow the video, remove cog and spacers as needed.

THANKS!

 

[teslanv]

The MXUS 3000W motor is now on the ebikes.CA simulator.
Select "MXUS 4504_V2"

90% peak efficiency.

90% is really impressive for a relatively cheap motor. Nice work MXUS! Can't wait to see how the Quanshun motor compares. Thanks Justin!

so 4504 is 4 turn motor???

That is correct. "4504_V2" = 45mm Stator, 04 is the 4T Winding. V2 is the V2 Stator (Cast Aluminum with 0.35mm Lams).

The Full Series, once tested and added would be listed as:

4503_v2 (3T, 12Kv)
4504_V2 (4T, 9Kv)
4505_V2 (5T, 7.2Kv)
4506_V2 (6T, 6Kv)

 

[ecross]

this is just a question of heat loss..

In this case the diff bwetween the motor output power and input electrical power is 1.4kW.. so thi smena it'S like puting a 1.4kW heater in your motor... i think it is normal it will overheat in 4 minutes.. that's about 0.34 megajoules to dissipate at a crazy low speed of air...

One question.. Where is located you 20% grade 1.4km long hill ? :| it should be about 900fts high.

Doc

Hi Doc,

I need for this really great motor also a great controller, I`m the user from germany with the aircooling and watercooling version! With my 120A battery current the motor get not very warm, so my Sony VTC5, 2x 12S16P, also hot from charger 100V, can bring up to +300A constant, but I think 150 - 200 is the next step for my Fully-Trike and have fun off-road. Whats your thinking about a good controller for this set-up?

 

[Doctorbass]

this is just a question of heat loss..

In this case the diff bwetween the motor output power and input electrical power is 1.4kW.. so thi smena it'S like puting a 1.4kW heater in your motor... i think it is normal it will overheat in 4 minutes.. that's about 0.34 megajoules to dissipate at a crazy low speed of air...

One question.. Where is located you 20% grade 1.4km long hill ? :| it should be about 900fts high.

Doc

Hi Doc,

I need for this really great motor also a great controller, I`m the user from germany with the aircooling and watercooling version! With my 120A battery current the motor get not very warm, so my Sony VTC5, 2x 12S16P, also hot from charger 100V, can bring up to +300A constant, but I think 150 - 200 is the next step for my Fully-Trike and have fun off-road. Whats your thinking about a good controller for this set-up?

Well becwuse you are using 100v i can not recommand you the Adaptto. Adaptto is max 90v (recommanded) and the lyen 24 or 36 fets would require the 4115 fets for 100v+ to not blow at high phase amp. Maybe a 350a 96v kelly?

Doc

 

[madin88]

probably the 96V sabvoton is a good choice, but im not sure if it can do over 150A battery..

btw: afaik kelly will offer soon FOC controllers

 

[ecross]

this is just a question of heat loss..

In this case the diff bwetween the motor output power and input electrical power is 1.4kW.. so thi smena it'S like puting a 1.4kW heater in your motor... i think it is normal it will overheat in 4 minutes.. that's about 0.34 megajoules to dissipate at a crazy low speed of air...

One question.. Where is located you 20% grade 1.4km long hill ? :| it should be about 900fts high.

Doc

Hi Doc,

I need for this really great motor also a great controller, I`m the user from germany with the aircooling and watercooling version! With my 120A battery current the motor get not very warm, so my Sony VTC5, 2x 12S16P, also hot from charger 100V, can bring up to +300A constant, but I think 150 - 200 is the next step for my Fully-Trike and have fun off-road. Whats your thinking about a good controller for this set-up?

Well becwuse you are using 100v i can not recommand you the Adaptto. Adaptto is max 90v (recommanded) and the lyen 24 or 36 fets would require the 4115 fets for 100v+ to not blow at high phase amp. Maybe a 350a 96v kelly?

Doc

Hi Doc,

thanks for your thinking. KELLY controller no way. I use 18FET4110 with great results, but the Adaptto is interesting. How long do you use the Adaptto and do you have any problem with the Apaptto system?

 

[Allex]

Why dont you like Kelly?

 

[ecross]

Why dont you like Kelly?

-have you ever open a Kelly?

 

[Doctorbass]

The Kelly is the only controller that I ever had that never blown. but I hate the roughness of the low speed torque.. it make the motor to vibrate a lot.

Doc

 

[ecross]

The Kelly is the only controller that I ever had that never blown. but I hate the roughness of the low speed torque.. it make the motor to vibrate a lot.

Doc

Hi Doc,

thanks for your thinking. I use 18FET4110 with great results, but the Adaptto is interesting. How long do you use the Adaptto and do you have any problem with the Apaptto system? Is this the best controller for this MXUS 3000 Hub Motor?

 

[madin88]

The Kelly is the only controller that I ever had that never blown. but I hate the roughness of the low speed torque.. it make the motor to vibrate a lot.

thats the downside of kelly, but apart from that the features and programming etc is much better than Infinion. the vibrations only seems to be a problem with DD hubs. as example with the MAC or other geard motors i have not noticed any vibration or sluggish acceleration. the torque was great and about the same like the motor did with infineon.

 

[Doctorbass]

The Kelly is the only controller that I ever had that never blown. but I hate the roughness of the low speed torque.. it make the motor to vibrate a lot.

Doc

Hi Doc,

thanks for your thinking. I use 18FET4110 with great results, but the Adaptto is interesting. How long do you use the Adaptto and do you have any problem with the Apaptto system? Is this the best controller for this MXUS 3000 Hub Motor?

Adaptto is an awesome controller system. simply the most sophisticated ever built! Jeka and his team of conceptor are genius!

It use 100v fet and can give really high phase amp! however to achieve these rating, it must be used under 90V and best is using 20s or 84-86Vdc max from what Oleg from Adaptto drive lab said to me to allow max phase current without danger fo rthe controller. it is also a question of motor inductance. The higher it is the less overvoltage spike the mosfet will see.
The thumb rule is to say that for each 100A phase current, you get 10v above the batt voltage.

I think that since 100v rated mosfet are capable generally to take 110 or 115v absolute max, When using 20s, average volt of 74V leave you 115V - 74V = 41V of overvoltage above the battery voltage so this is about 410A phase current...

That is the best understanding I have found.

Doc

 

[teslanv]

The thumb rule is to say that for each 100A phase current, you get 10v above the batt voltage.

I think that since 100v rated mosfet are capable generally to take 110 or 115v absolute max, When using 20s, average volt of 74V leave you 115V - 74V = 41V of overvoltage above the battery voltage so this is about 410A phase current...

That is the best understanding I have found.

Doc

That is a good way to think about it. Thanks for the insight, Doc.

For reference, On my 60MPH Drag Run, I had my Lyen 18FET controller set to 80A Battery/180A Phase, and was running a 24S battery at just under 100V, which is right at the theoretical limits on the components. I knew I was cutting it close.

 

[ecross]

Doc and Teslanv: Thanks for your input, I will play with a max-e from a buddy from me, but first I must build some adaptors to my 4503 motor

 

[jansevr]

ecross - i can recommend the greentime 36 fet. i have 2 of these controllers and have been unable to get them anywhere near warm at 10kw peaks. my mxus definitely gets warm before you have anything to worry about with the controller. the only downside to this bulletproof controller is the size and weight. i dont have any pictures or dimensions right now but can get them in the next day or two if you want. the price is unbeatable for the performance and reliability.

http://de.aliexpress.com/store/prod...shless-speed-controller/313864_578300665.html

 

[ecross]

ecross - i can recommend the greentime 36 fet. i have 2 of these controllers and have been unable to get them anywhere near warm at 10kw peaks. my mxus definitely gets warm before you have anything to worry about with the controller. the only downside to this bulletproof controller is the size and weight. i dont have any pictures or dimensions right now but can get them in the next day or two if you want. the price is unbeatable for the performance and reliability.

http://de.aliexpress.com/store/prod...shless-speed-controller/313864_578300665.html

jansevr Thanks for your input. Please send more infos to your input voltage, do you use 24S with 100,80V? How much battery current do you have? Do you use Regen?
Please send some pics from the inside.

 

[zombiess]

It use 100v fet and can give really high phase amp! however to achieve these rating, it must be used under 90V and best is using 20s or 84-86Vdc max from what Oleg from Adaptto drive lab said to me to allow max phase current without danger fo rthe controller. it is also a question of motor inductance. The higher it is the less overvoltage spike the mosfet will see.
The thumb rule is to say that for each 100A phase current, you get 10v above the batt voltage.

I think that since 100v rated mosfet are capable generally to take 110 or 115v absolute max, When using 20s, average volt of 74V leave you 115V - 74V = 41V of overvoltage above the battery voltage so this is about 410A phase current...

That is the best understanding I have found.

Doc

Doc, you were provided some faulty information. The MOSFET is not suitable for any use without margin for error being taken into account. You can find out the actual voltage of MOSFET by causing an avalanche event. I've accidentally done this on IRFP4568 (150V rated) and saw the avalanche event at ~155V on my scope. So there is a tiny margin above 150V for the devices I tested at ~25C. I haven't tested a IRFP4110, but devices should never be run at their maximum rating. All it takes is an environmental change to shift the failure point.

What is this thumb rule? I have not seen this before and it doesn't make sense to me.

The thumb rule is to say that for each 100A phase current, you get 10v above the batt voltage.

The inductive "kick back" has the following relationship
V(t) = -L di/dt

As can be seen from the math the rate of current change multiplied by the inductance = the voltage out of the inductor. If the rate of current change is held constant (di/dt) then the inductor value (L) determines the voltage generated and the higher the L the higher the voltage.

I'm leaving lots of detail out here and trying to keep it high level so people eyes don't glaze over.