My E-Scooter Upgrade Project

[E-ScooterDude]

Thanks IanHill, I'll check it out.

 

[ElectricGod]

I was planning on making my own brackets from .25" aluminum, that way I can get exactly what I want. So, do you like this type or the "Huating" type of caliper?

OK....yes cool...so not a problem mating it to fit those elongated slots. Those are very similar to my calipers. They work well considering how inexpensive they are. I should have gotten aluminum back when I mounted my brakes and made my own brackets. When you bleed the brakes, make sure before hand that the rotor is centered in the pads. I forget which brake it was...front or back, but one of mine was off center. It makes the brake caliper feel really spongy. It's kind of like the line has air in it. This morning, I crossed a railroad track and a piece of bailing wire got caught in my front rotor between one of the pads. It did the same thing. All of a sudden the front brakes were totally soft. As soon as I removed the piece of wire, the brakes were back.

 

[ElectricGod]

I don't know if you are going to use bike hydraulic levers or not, but I found these on ebay for $30 for both left and right. I bought them on Tuesday and they arrived today. They are missing the brake switch, but they cost like $2 each so no big deal. They are the correct size for bikes or my scooters.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151373413004?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here's the brake switches.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Micro-Brake-Switches-2-left-2-right-for-ATV-Moped-Scooter-Dirt-bikes-/111295294973?hash=item19e9b76dfd:g3kAAMXQC-tTGiav

They are smooth and they come in sets. Hunting around for a matching set used to be a royal pain. Now a few companies are pairing them together for us and still selling them at reasonable prices. I think the brakes on my blue scooter cost me something like $24 each and I had to hunt around to find a left and right matching pair. Also these ones have a site window on them so you can see if you are low on fluid without opening them up. My old ones don't have that. They use 8mm banjo bolts.

This is the brake switches on my old brake levers. Get some of these for the new levers.

 

[E-ScooterDude]

Thanks EG,

I totally scrapped the idea of using bike brakes and have focused on the scooter brakes. I got LH and RH (the RH has come in already) master cylinders that look exactly like the one's in the pictures. The parts I have come with the switch, stock long lever, and 8mm holes for the mirrors. I've also got the F and R calipers and some shorty adjustable levers coming too. I'll have to see about some custom lines. The .25" aluminum 6061 plate is on it's way. I know the brackets aren't right for my bike so I'm custom fabricating them. We'll see how this works out as far as the bolt-up goes.

 

[ElectricGod]

Thanks EG,

I totally scrapped the idea of using bike brakes and have focused on the scooter brakes. I got LH and RH (the RH has come in already) master cylinders that look exactly like the one's in the pictures. The parts I have come with the switch, stock long lever, and 8mm holes for the mirrors. I've also got the F and R calipers and some shorty adjustable levers coming too. I'll have to see about some custom lines. The .25" aluminum 6061 plate is on it's way. I know the brackets aren't right for my bike so I'm custom fabricating them. We'll see how this works out as far as the bolt-up goes.

I wish I had reused the existing elongated holes for my brakes, but made the existing brackets work instead which meant new holes. Now that I have 6061, I could do it right no problem, but it hardly matters now.

 

[E-ScooterDude]

I’ve done a lot of riding in the last month and I’m not too far from my first 1000 miles. All of the parts for the hydraulic brakes showed up a few weeks ago but I’ve been putting it off and riding instead. Well, I decided to at least install one of the calipers and I’m very happy with the result. I was concerned that these two piston calipers were going to be a bit too powerful and that would make the brakes too sensitive. I’m happy to report that’s not the case at all and the brakes, while powerful, are very controllable and linear.


I also decided to go with a bigger sprocket. I asked LightningRods to make me a custom 64T sprocket with the intention of trading speed for torque. That’s exactly what I got and I lost about 7 MPH but gained some impressive hill climbing capability. The 50T seemed capable of anything but I found myself off-road way more than I expected. I’m on mountain bike trails, and even foot paths a lot and the 50T was not as ready for these as I would have liked. The motor puts out amazing torque but I found myself going slow up steep soft slopes. The 64T really pulls and now I can do what most mountain bikes can do. If it gets too rocky I have to walk it or turn back, but that doesn’t happen that often. I’ve been on some amazing trails and I have surprised a number of folks who see me out where a bike like this normally can’t go.

I built what I think is a really good chain tensioner, all for about $5. I noticed that the chain was either too tight or too sloppy. I knew that I would need to add a chain tensioner at some point but the off-the-shelf parts weren’t what I wanted. There is a natural pivot on the back side of the shock mount so I fabricated the arm and put on a urethane roller that works great. Getting the right spring for getting the tension just right was probably the hardest part.

I need to put the front caliper on and install the brake light and turn indicators. I have most of the parts for that but I’m not in too big of a hurry about that either. I’ll probably get that done this month.
A few last things: this bike really gets attention wherever I go. It seems everyone wants to know about its capabilities: cost, range, speed, etc. I know it’s unique but the interest has far surpassed what I was expecting. It really has turned out to be a most impressive little machine and has opened a lot of the area up to me for exploring. When there is a bike lane I take it. When there is only a sidewalk I ride that, but at reduced speed. When there are foot trails or bike paths, I take them too. When there is only road then I join traffic and can keep up for as long as I like, usually looking for another bike lane or sidewalk because I’m pretty happy doing around 15-20 MPH most times. My max speed so far is 53.6 MPH on level ground and my max range so far is 38.8 miles keeping my speed reasonable. If I’m rocketing around on the roads my range naturally is less, but only by about 10-20%.

 

[LightningRods]

I'm glad the sprocket worked out for you. The bike is looking great!

 

[E-ScooterDude]

Thanks Michael, I appreciate your help.

 

[E-ScooterDude]

This part of the project is complete: I installed the front brake caliper and master cylinder.


I also completed the 12V system, so now I have my brake light back. I just need to install the turn indicators.

 

[ElectricGod]

Hey! I've seen those brakes before! Looking good.

 

[Ianhill]

Are they floating calipers ? It looks much better than the standard setup and with the extra meat in the disc and caliper i don't think you will heat soak them to easily.

 

[E-ScooterDude]

They are not floating calipers, they are hard mounted to fabricated brackets, and there is a lot of brake material to grab the disks. I was most impressed by the linearity of the application and the braking power.

 

[E-ScooterDude]

Thanks EG. From what I can tell these are identical to your brakes. The metal brackets that come with them are different, but that just meant I had to make slightly different fabricated brackets. Either way, they work great and I'm thankful for the recommendation.

 

[babblefish]

Great information for these types of scooters guys. I have a similar scooter, but with the 10" wheel that uses the 3.00-4 tires. It runs with a 1000W brushed motor, but I'm researching a brushless motor setup. Question; I have two of these scooters and the headsets in both have their bearing races so scalloped that the steering is really sloppy with a notchy feeling. If I tighten out the play, and because of the scalloped races, it no longer steers. As you know, these things are HEAVY so the headset bearings/races take a beating, but I haven't been able to find ANYONE who sells replacement headsets. All I've found are replacement bearings, but not the races. Any ideas for new and complete headsets?
I've toyed with the idea of machining my own headset which would use heavy duty sealed and tapered bearings, but I'm not sure how hard it would be.

 

[amberwolf]

They're probably the same as bicycle headsets and bearings, so you can find a junked bicycle (thriftstore, freecycle, craigslist, curbside collection pile, etc) with the same size headtube, and swap out the parts from it to yours.


(or buy new ones from a bike shop, etc).


Most likely a 1", but you can measure it and check.

Some info on headsets/etc here:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/headsets.html

 

[E-ScooterDude]

I haven't experienced that type of problem. I would agree that bicycle parts could work.

 

[babblefish]

They're probably the same as bicycle headsets and bearings, so you can find a junked bicycle (thriftstore, freecycle, craigslist, curbside collection pile, etc) with the same size headtube, and swap out the parts from it to yours.


(or buy new ones from a bike shop, etc).


Most likely a 1", but you can measure it and check.

Some info on headsets/etc here:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/headsets.html

Thanks for that link, but he talks only about 7/8" and 1-1/8" threaded headsets. Mine appears to be 1-1/4". The problem is, no one seems to know where I can get a headset in that size, not even the sellers of these types of stand-up scooters (I've tried several). Like I mentioned, they'll sell me new ballbearings, but that's not what wears out, it's the races that wear out. Very frustrating.

I think that if the scooter is ridden only on pavement and ridden by a sane person, then the stock headsets will last. But, if the scooter is taken off-road (I have dirt tires) or is jumped up and down off of curbs, then the races will get beaten to death. I'm not aways easy on my scooter...

 

[E-ScooterDude]

It’s been a while since my last post so here’s an update:

I have ridden well over 1000 miles, and heading pretty quickly to 2000. Everything is working great with no mechanical issues. The battery is still as strong as ever and I have a little under 100 cycles on it. The range is about 40 miles if I’m on flat ground and ride at reasonable speeds (average 15-20 mph). If I’m pushing it I can still get range in the 30’s however.

The hydraulic brakes are just the best and I consider these one of the best upgrades for handling real-world challenges. The drive train is also doing great and there is a reasonable amount of maintenance required.

I’m still using it for a good mix of off and on pavement riding and the tires deal with a broad range of conditions. I’ve been through a lot of gravel and some soft sand and they do very well in spite of the fact that they are really street only tires. I guess it helps that they are pretty wide. I haven’t perceived much wear yet and if I had to guess I should get about 5K of use out to them.


Here’s my latest addition, and it’s been really handy. I also like parking it this way since I think it looks cool.

 

[Gaffler]

Great thread. Your still on the Michelin 90/90-10 tire? Also I never could figure out what brakes you and E.G. were talking about and what set you finally installed. I have trouble viewing the photos cuz I don't have photo bucket. I want to thank you for sharing your build I have learned alot from you and E.G. cheers.

 

[E-ScooterDude]

You are very welcome Gaffler.

It's been over a year now and the Michelins are still going strong. I believe they have much more life left in them and I'm approaching 2000 miles. I'm guessing about 5000 miles useful life.

The brakes were from Ebay and here is the description: "Yamaha UTV Brake Calipers Rihno 450 600 YXR450 YXR660 with Pad 4x4 AUTO OFF Road". The link I used back then goes to an unlisted part now but you can use the description to find the same ones from the same or another seller.

They worked out really well and the bracket fabrication was pretty straight forward.

I'm very glad you found all of this info useful. EG was such a great inspiration when I was building mine.

BTW: I don't have photo bucket but the pictures show up just fine from my and others posts. I'm using Google Chrome browser.

 

[Gaffler]

Right on thanks again for the info on the brakes. Could you please clarify for me about the tires. My Schwinn Stealth s1000 scooter have the stock tire size on them 12.5 X 3.0 and I believe you and E.G. both had the same stock size tire. I know you both purchased new rims and if I read correctly they are exactly the same size as the stock rims you both had. I just need clarification that the 90/90-10 upgrade tire will work on my stock rim and I think they will if your new rims are still the same size as the original. My rims are alloy as well and very similar but they are stock with nothing wrong with them other than the skinny flat prone tires. I really dig the look of the 90/90-10 in this pic compared to the skinny 12.5 X 3.0 stock tire, not to mention the J rating, more contact area and crazy long lifetime (miles) you have put on them, with added super bonus of not having the flat tire issues all the time that the thin 12.5 X 3.0 tires are famous for. I started a tread about everything I want to do to my three scooters and if you so kindly could respond over there so I don't clutter up your very good thread on your build. I really appreciate you input on my project and your time. Thanks again

 

[Gaffler]

Are these the brakes you installed?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-UTV-Brake-Calipers-Rihno-660-YXR660-Pads-4X4-AUTO-DIRECTSTOCK-Replacement/272575467685?hash=item3f76c390a5:g:T90AAOSw2gxYuL~y&vxp=mtr Thanks again

 

[E-ScooterDude]

I don' t mind cluttering up my thread, the more exchange of info the better.

I put my Michelin tires on my original rims and had them there for a few months until I upgraded to the Honda Z50 rims. They are the same diameter but the OEM rims are narrower by about .5"

The tires fit fine on both rims, but the OEM were "tubed" and the Z50 are tubeless.

The picture of the brakes you show was the exact same picture when I got mine originally last year. They work great.

 

[Gaffler]

Ok thanks for the tire info I am placing an order those now as well as the hydro brakes. What rotor did you attach to the stock rims and the new rims? Was it the same rotary for both? I think you said 160mm rotor? Thx

 

[Gaffler]

I forgot to ask you regarding the brakes i listed above, the listing above is only for the caliper for sale on eBay. Was yours a complete set including the brake levers, master cylinder, and brake line? Or did you piece it together? Caliper from here, levers master cylinder and lines from somewhere else. I'm thinking you pieced it together because these are ment for a Yamaha rino with a foot brake. Where did you get the rest of the parts if it was not a complete set? Ebay?