My RMARTIN bike died today.

[Chalo]

the motor. With 2 wires coming out of the motor, it's a brushed.

Not.
It is brushless.

What information do you have on that motor, Tyler?

The photo shows two cables. One terminates in a multi-pin connector, presumably for Hall sensors. The other leaves the photo frame but presumably connects to the yellow and blue wire pair out of the controller.

Chalo

 

[Nehmo]

The photo shows two cables. One terminates in a multi-pin connector, presumably for Hall sensors. The other leaves the photo frame but presumably connects to the yellow and blue wire pair out of the controller.
Chalo

I see that now. The two cables are different size. It's brushless. And I even found a skimpy description on a defunct page saying it's brushless. But that's okay; we still can test it.
You say you play with RC, Georgefromvt. Do you have a decent voltmeter, ? And a power drill too? Do you have (and this isn't absolutely necessary) the wiring diagram for the bike also ? And what about the data sheet for the motor? The bike's site http://www.electricbikedistributor.com/ isn't directed toward the technical.

 

[dnmun]

looks like a brushless, has the 5 pin connector on the right and three phases wires.

you need to clarify the 'cutting out', under load, after a certain time or speed?

did it begin this problem during the rain or afterwards?

did martin have a comment about the flashing led? how many pulses, more than one code?

does the processor on the controller have a label?

 

[georgefromvt]

I spoke with RMartin today, they suggested it was either the controller or the hall wires. The tech wasn't sure about the blinking red light inside the controller, he admitted to never actually opening one. The bike's motor sputters for just a nano second when power is applied but nothing else. RMartin keeps parts in supply and will sell a new controller. I opened up the motor but not possibly to get to the internal wiring (hall wires). I plan on buying a new controller, worth trying but seriously doubt it's the controller. I see nothing burned or melted. If that's not the problem. I'll strip the bike for parts and buy a new one.
I'm looking at the iGO BIKES, the company is only a few hours away, services and sell parts and offer the new 250 W bracket powered bikes. iGO has been in business for 8 years and gladly services what it sells. Much easier for me to deal with a local company rather than one across the country.
While I'm not happy my bike died I must admit the 1200 miles it lasted, I was very satisfied. The power was good, motor whisper quiet and torque excellent. I've heard a few comments I should go with a DIY kit, tried once. Spent 1100 dollar for a brushless DD hub motor, Cycle Analyst and lipo battery but not happy with the quality. Spent more time trouble shoting the issues and got very little riding in. At least with the RMartin, I got 1200 worry free miles. I only wish local bikes shops worked on EBIKES. Easier to find a mechanic to work on your car than a tech to service your ebike.
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http://www.igoelectric.com/index.php

 

[Hillhater]

I am sure IGO would sort out your problem for a fee...(if its beyond you. ) as they sell the same equipment,
Sure IGO has a different brand name, but the base components are identical.

 

[dnmun]

from your picture of the motor, i cannot see where the hall sensors are located. the motor doesn't seem to have phase wires running into it either.

if you can power up the controller, you should be able to diagnose which hall sensor is bad and replace it and then it should work until it gets wet again, but you can prevent the shorts by covering the hall sensor legs with silicone. BOL, dm

 

[Chalo]

I only wish local bikes shops worked on EBIKES. Easier to find a mechanic to work on your car than a tech to service your ebike.

You should wish for the average e-bike to be less awful. That would greatly increase your odds of getting your first wish.

I fixed a hub generator problem today at work, and didn't even charge for it. Would I have messed with an unfamiliar electrical system if there was significant risk of unanticipated arc welding and thermal or acid burns? Not so likely.

Chalo

 

[mr.electric]

Kicks for a second then dies sounds like a fried controller to me. If the motor has hall sensors, a bad hall could be the culprit too. You can test all these guesses to figure it out for sure. Or just keep swapping parts. I would try Controller next then motor. check the battery output to make sure you have a power supply before going too far.

 

[georgefromvt]

does it have a hall effect throttle? If so i would guess that has failed; intermittent throttle response followed by failure after use in heavy rain were the symptoms of my throttle failure. If you can check it you would see 5v between positive and ground, and then a varying 0-4.75 v ish on the signal line between it and ground.

According to RMARTIN "The R12-a does have hall sensors in the motor since it is a brushless motor. Hall sensors simply detect the location of magnets. The motor, the throttle, and pedal assist sensors all rely on hall sensors to function." RMartin suggested I try replacing the controller, so ordered one for 54 bucks. I recently replaced the throttle but no good. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the advice and help. OH, one other question; how long do controllers last? Bike has 1200 miles. Shouldn't a controller last longer???
View attachment 1

http://www.electricbikedistributor.com/

 

[georgefromvt]

New controller arrived in today's mail. Replaced the controller but still nothing!! Motor makes a clicking sound for a second then then nothing!!! I already replaced the power gauge and throttle and now the controller. Any suggestions?????? Boy am I bummed!! Ouch, this really hurts!

 

[dnmun]

how many flashes of the led did you count? does the new controller show the same number of flashes?

it never seemed like a controller problem so i don't know why they told you to replace it or the throttle or your meter. it seems like it has had water in the motor that shorted the halls and you can check that by measuring the voltage on the hall sensor wires as you turn the motor slowly with the controller connected and powered up. i assume either controller will work to test them.

 

[Nehmo]

...Replaced the controller but still nothing!! Motor makes a clicking sound for a second then then nothing

The troubleshooting procedure of one-by-one replacing parts until you do the defective one usually works. If that's what you want to do, replace the motor next.
You also could do some tests on the motor. Is that what you want to do?

 

[georgefromvt]

I already replaced the controller, power gauge and throttle. New motor can be had for about 250 bucks per RMartin. Sorry, too much! I plan on stripping the parts, selling battery and controllers on EBAY and buying a new bike next spring. EBIKING is over for this year . Next spring I'll probably go with the 2012 iGO bike, 250 watts-- more power than the 2011 model. iGO services what they sell and is right across the border in Quebec. Thanks for all your help. Sorry the outcome wasn't better.
http://www.igoelectric.com/index.php

 

[georgefromvt]

I dismantled my RMARTIN bike yesterday. Painful but necessary. I was surprised how easily the electric motor came off, held in place only by two large bolts. I had plan on selling off the battery and motor but after removing it so easily, may replace with the 250 watt version providing it fits the frame. The biggest problem with repairing the bike is that all the wires run within the tube frame, very tough to get at. The Chinese must have thin nimble fingers to feed the wires in/ out of the frame??? Is there a trick? Please, I'm not racist but how do they do it?????
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[mr.electric]

You win some you lose some. I would have guess the controller was bad but now you are down to motor. It could be a little $5 hall sensor in the motor but the problem with doing a hall sensor replacement is that the job is brain surgery in ebike terms you need tweezers, solder epoxy etc etc. I would recommend buying locally so you can benefit from a local service tech or getting a voltmeter, hall sensor tester and spending some good time learning to be an ebike tech yourself.

 

[georgefromvt]

You win some you lose some. I would have guess the controller was bad but now you are down to motor. It could be a little $5 hall sensor in the motor but the problem with doing a hall sensor replacement is that the job is brain surgery in ebike terms you need tweezers, solder epoxy etc etc. I would recommend buying locally so you can benefit from a local service tech or getting a voltmeter, hall sensor tester and spending some good time learning to be an ebike tech yourself.

If I don't repair/modify my Rmartin will buy a new bike from iGO. Local shop only about an hour north of the border. The iGO bikes are almost identical to the Rmartin but now equipped with 250 watt motors.

http://www.igoelectric.com/

 

[dnmun]

i did not find replacing the hall sensors to be that hard. never know until you see where they are. i suspect they are mounted on a pcb on the end plate inside the motor, and since you have 2 good controllers, then you can figure out which hall sensor is bad by rotating the motor by hand while it is connected to the controller. i still have some of the SS41 hall sensors i bot from mouser if you can use one.

edit, i was just looking at steveo's insight and realized he would fix it for you too i bet. but you can do it yourself if you have a voltmeter by watching the voltages toggle on the hall sensor leads where they go through that 5 pin connector plug.

 

[lesspedal]

If I don't repair/modify my Rmartin will buy a new bike from iGO. Local shop only about an hour north of the border. The iGO bikes are almost identical to the Rmartin but now equipped with 250 watt motors. [/quote]
George,
In case you haven't noticed, your bike is, I Assume 36v, your controller is rated at 7amps= 252watts.
Point being that all these bikes fitted with tonaro drive system, catic/aseako /r martin r10, 12/gette/igo, most likely use the very same controller.
So purchase of a new Igo may look a bit flasher but I think will deliver exactly the same power.

 

[georgefromvt]

If I don't repair/modify my Rmartin will buy a new bike from iGO. Local shop only about an hour north of the border. The iGO bikes are almost identical to the Rmartin but now equipped with 250 watt motors.

George,
In case you haven't noticed, your bike is, I Assume 36v, your controller is rated at 7amps= 252watts.
Point being that all these bikes fitted with tonaro drive system, catic/aseako /r martin r10, 12/gette/igo, most likely use the very same controller.
So purchase of a new Igo may look a bit flasher but I think will deliver exactly the same power. [/quote]

Very good point, thanks for catching that. Will definitely inquire about the controller before/ if I purchase from iGO.

http://www.igoelectric.com/index.php

 

[georgefromvt]

If I don't repair/modify my Rmartin will buy a new bike from iGO. Local shop only about an hour north of the border. The iGO bikes are almost identical to the Rmartin but now equipped with 250 watt motors.

George,
In case you haven't noticed, your bike is, I Assume 36v, your controller is rated at 7amps= 252watts.
Point being that all these bikes fitted with tonaro drive system, catic/aseako /r martin r10, 12/gette/igo, most likely use the very same controller.
So purchase of a new Igo may look a bit flasher but I think will deliver exactly the same power.

Very good point, thanks for catching that. Will definitely inquire about the controller before/ if I purchase from iGO.

http://www.igoelectric.com/index.php
[/quote]

I spoke with iGO this afternoon, they said the controller is rated higher to handle a larger motor. The speed is the same due to Fed regs but the torgue is better.

 

[Hillhater]

In case you haven't noticed, your bike is, I Assume 36v, your controller is rated at 7amps= 252watts.
Point being that all these bikes fitted with tonaro drive system, catic/aseako /r martin r10, 12/gette/igo, most likely use the very same controller.
So purchase of a new Igo may look a bit flasher but I think will deliver exactly the same power.

Hmm?, There certainly does appear to be at least 2 different motor assys, ( higher wattage and different gbox ratios).. according to this Euro site ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electrics-bike.com%2F
and i have seen other retailers quoting 48v, 600w on identical looking units.
So , Either the motor can handle a lot more power than 200W ( no surprise there) using different controllers, or there are some different windings available.
George, ..track down a local RC or electrical geek who can check out that motor for you, before you throw more $$$'s at it.

 

[georgefromvt]

In case you haven't noticed, your bike is, I Assume 36v, your controller is rated at 7amps= 252watts.
Point being that all these bikes fitted with tonaro drive system, catic/aseako /r martin r10, 12/gette/igo, most likely use the very same controller.
So purchase of a new Igo may look a bit flasher but I think will deliver exactly the same power.

Hmm?, There certainly does appear to be at least 2 different motor assys, ( higher wattage and different gbox ratios).. according to this Euro site ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electrics-bike.com%2F
and i have seen other retailers quoting 48v, 600w on identical looking units.
So , Either the motor can handle a lot more power than 200W ( no surprise there) using different controllers, or there are some different windings available.
George, ..track down a local RC or electrical geek who can check out that motor for you, before you throw more $$$'s at it.

Could you list that site again? Can't open. Thanks. Regarding the iGO bike, plan on test riding it first and checking out the controller. The 250 version isn't in yet, so have to wait till Mid Sept. Unfortunately due to our short summers, may purchase next spring. We probably won't see any more 80 degree days and even 70 degree days may be sparse in the next few weeks. Vermont summers are over in a blink.

http://www.igoelectric.com/igourban.php

 

[Hillhater]

This is the original site ..http://www.electrics-bike.com/
Odd that the other (translated) link doesnt work for you..its fine for me

 

[georgefromvt]

This is the original site ..http://www.electrics-bike.com/
Odd that the other (translated) link doesnt work for you..its fine for me

Hillhater, thanks for the link. Great to know there is a 48 volt version. Company looks like it's located in France, too bad. Wouldn't mind taking the 48 volt version for a test spin. I emailed iGO; any plans on carrying a larger selection like their French counterparts? Besides a larger selections of bikes, also carry parts such as the drive units, controllers and batteries.


http://www.electrics-bike.com/velo_electrique_vtt_electrique_bigith.htm
http://www.igoelectric.com/

 

[lesspedal]

This is where all these brands originate http://www.caticgz.com/Products/3791.html#
Catic/ big hit/Igo etc....
I think they are all 36v/200w. If there was a more powerful version they would be a great bike.

Edit: I see they have big hit 48v version, however most likely only 5 amp controller=240w,as they don't mention an increase in output, only 240w max.