My Stock Puma Motor Review

[EcoForumZ]

My Stock Puma Motor Review

Test environment:

Name - The Widow Maker
Stock Puma hub motor
Stock 25a 36v controller
Shockley 36v 10ah LifePO4 battery pack
Beach Cruiser with 26" wheel

No peddling ever not even on take offs
Full throttle the entire time both up and down hill
The test road is 50% down hill 50% uphill

Top speed on level ground 22.3mph, avg speed on level ground 21mph
Totatal distance 23.4 Miles under the above stated test conditions
No loss in speed when going up hill or very little definitly less than 1mph difference

30+ mile range can easily be obtained with this motor and a 10ah LifePO4 battery pack. To obtain 30+ miles per full charge
you should use pedal assist when taking off from a stop, coast down hills, and use a small amount of peddle assist on flat surfaces and up hills. I
Will test this method later this week to see if I can get 30+ miles per charge without breaking a sweet or dipping below 20mph.

What I like about the Puma:

1. The Puma hub motor has more torque than any other crystalyte on the market including the crystalyte X5 series.

2. The Puma hub motor is almost completely silent. The sound of the tires on the road is about as loud as the motor itself.

3. The Puma hub motors freewheel spin has absolutely no drag so milage can be improved by coasting on flat surfaces and down hills.

4. The Puma hub motor has internal gears so the motor needs less amps to run but still has the most torque of any motor on the market.

5. The Puma hub motor weights about 10 pounds which is more than half the weight of a crystalyte X5 motor it's closest rival.

Youtube video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZm48pYjBc

 

[Lowell]

Are you trying to say that the Puma makes more torque than this? http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3953

 

[deecanio]

WOOOAH easy there lowell we know you have a rocket x5 - i think the dude is just saying volt for volt up to a limit the puma is torquier than the x5, which is true?
By the way where have you been? haven't seen the monster in action for a while, any new vids?


Cheers


D

 

[Jozzer]

Hehe, the widow maker, I like it!
One of my customers has a bike called the widowermaker, since he let his missus have a go and she fell right off it and broke her jaw/teeth etc! It doesn't seem to have dampened his enthusiasm for the Puma tho

 

[pwbset]

My pictures were to large to post but you can see them here
http://www.ecoforumz.com/ecar-ebike-reviews/9150-review-puma-hub-motor.html

Uhm.. those photos are not too large to post here. No offense, and I enjoy your posts I really do, but you're clearly trying to get people to join your own e-forum. Can't even see the photos without joining. I don't do agendas sorry.

 

[Lowell]

WOOOAH easy there lowell we know you have a rocket x5 - i think the dude is just saying volt for volt up to a limit the puma is torquier than the x5, which is true?
By the way where have you been? haven't seen the monster in action for a while, any new vids?


Cheers


D

I'd still like to try out a Puma, and Knoxie was the one really inspiring me, but then he went and got himself an X5. So what's the status on a reliable, high power Puma motor? 40+mph on a 50lb FS mountain bike with wheelie inducing torque.

No new vids, I've been busy racing cars and moved into a nice big 4500sq/ft shop with an all wheel drive dyno. I'm still waiting for the magic battery solution which will combine the lightness and high C rating of RC lipo cells with the long life of iron phosphate.

 

[deecanio]

Hi Lowell,

nice to see you around again, shop space sounds awesome.
Well i just got a newer version of the puma so i will post up some vids early august when i get the bike back, i dont think it can take anywhere near the power of the x5 which is why i said it's torquier up to a point, then it would fry as the x5 kept on sucking the power up, i'll run it at 66v 50a so i dont expect wheelie popping power any time soon but it should go well enough for me. Was thinking of an x5 if i get around to making a road bike tho, if you dont mind the weight the x5 is probably the best hub for high power.
tbh I'm hoping that one of the guys comes up with a great rc motor/controller solution soon then we can drop the hubs entirely and carry much less weight for the same or more power thats the way forward imo.


Cheers<

D

 

[Jonathan]

BMC / Puma motors are definitely in it own class.
I have both the BMC (modded) and a xlyte 408 motor. And ridden several different x5 setup.

The (+)
- BMC definitely have ALOT more torque compared to the 408 and even the 5303 that I've ridden.
- Efficiency is significantly 30% better than 408 on a no pedal test. 16.5 Wh/m vs 24.5 Wh/m
- Top speed 35 mph, +5 mph greater than 408 on the same road/battery/controller
- Top speed downhill coasting is also better. I didn't have to use brakes on my 408 when we went down the Calaveras hills, while the BMC I had to tap the rear brake quite often to prevent me running into jondoh.
- Oh the weight of sub 50 lbs on a mtn bike.

The (-): Yep theres no free lunch.
- Wires upgrade required. The bore ID only allow up to 14 AWG (stripped & heatshrink) to be used. Welder (Deans) wires are recommended here.
- Limited controller availability (xlyte 72V/35A analog controller)
- Nylon gear wear & tear for daily commuter.
- Hi voltage limit. I keep mine maxed out at 66V which is 2400 RPM internally.
- Reliability, due to the smaller wires, heat loss is added to the system and increase the chance of failure of wire/magnet/epoxy etc.
- Cost of $700, $500 motor & $200 for controller + shipping.The best I've been able to do.

 

[EcoForumZ]

My pictures were to large to post but you can see them here
http://www.ecoforumz.com/ecar-ebike-reviews/9150-review-puma-hub-motor.html

Uhm.. those photos are not too large to post here. No offense, and I enjoy your posts I really do, but you're clearly trying to get people to join your own e-forum. Can't even see the photos without joining. I don't do agendas sorry.

Sorry about the permission thing that was not something I did on purposes. That was a default VBulletin setting that I have now changed since you brought it to my attention. Afterall it's better for search engine rankings if the spiders can see the images. The picture sizes are not to large but the maximum number of pixels allowed on this forum cut my pictures in half which is why I posted the link to my images. For the record I have posted many many times here and don't think I have ever left a link to my forum so it's not something I am going out of my way to do. By the way I do have many members that link to this forum and I have no problem with it. I knew somebody would say something so I was kinda expecting it so no hard feelings.

By the way this is a link to the mesh bag I got to hold my battery in place. I plan to suspend it in the middle of the frame with a spider web type of effect with black rope or black zip ties. Will post some pictures after I am done. I keep putting it off because everytime I go to the garage to work on it I end up going for a ride.

http://www.rei.com/product/733359

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes the BMC or Puma is a great little motor for sure, its very powerful and light but it does have its flaws as have been pointed out, I like them on smaller bikes like the BMX and occasional rides but if you go over 48V and 35A for too long they wont last as standard, I dont think the gears wearing is as much an issue as first thought, the main thing to go on them is the rotor splines, on an EV tech BMC (none Team Hybrid stamped) the rotors are press fitted to the motor shaft, in time these loosen and start to spin, they cured this with a key on the TH models and I welded mine, now the most alarming thing that happens over time is the magnets can loosen in the rotor body and spin! yes they spin inside the rotor body, Deecannio has seen and heard this on his motor, I have a motor that is doing it now, its possible these could be epoxied back in but that would mean stripping the rotor which is a pig of a job, done that once before :x and not sure how you could stop them short of some very strong glue?

So yes the BMC is better to a point but they will eventually break unless you upgrade them or treat them with kid gloves a little, the X5 which I am currently running is IMHO a better motor than the Puma, sure it is heavier and doesnt have as much torque but if you keep the current to 35A and run no more than 72V, I think its very hard to beat, the Puma at that kind of power wont last anywhere near as long sure it will be quick but the windings get very hot and the solder joints can melt etc etc you have seen the posts.

Puma for 60V and 35A max in bursts, the X5 72 35A constant, I doubt will have any failures fit a torque arm of course!! I am speaking with some experience!! I still get a lot of mail from my Puma vids, sure they are a great motor but so are Xlyte motors.

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

hi all,

yes pauls bang on the money with his summary of the puma imo.
That said im going to run my new one at 66v 50a but it will have every known mod and hopefully some unknown
Also a temp stat is going in so i dont blaze it too bad, we'll see how it runs soon enough, if i get the same performance as i did with the old one but a bit more reliability i'd be happy enough just to burn and replace
my old puma was first gen with no mods and i cant honestly say whether it was the 72v40a or the bashing it on jumps that caused most probs,lol i can say that it was a great little motor tho, all that torque for 10lbs was and is a bargain imo
Bring on the RC motors!!!!!!


cheers


D

 

[pwbset]

For the record I have posted many many times here

And I hope you continue to do so... like I said I really enjoy your posts.

I knew somebody would say something so I was kinda expecting it so no hard feelings.

No hard feelings indeed... some people are unscrupulous though so it's always best to call people out on stuff and see how they react. You passed with flying colors. :wink:

In all sincerity good luck with the forum... I've run a few in my time and they can be a bitch, but also rewarding.

 

[EcoForumZ]

Hi

Yes the BMC or Puma is a great little motor for sure, its very powerful and light but it does have its flaws as have been pointed out, I like them on smaller bikes like the BMX and occasional rides but if you go over 48V and 35A for too long they wont last as standard, I dont think the gears wearing is as much an issue as first thought, the main thing to go on them is the rotor splines, on an EV tech BMC (none Team Hybrid stamped) the rotors are press fitted to the motor shaft, in time these loosen and start to spin, they cured this with a key on the TH models and I welded mine, now the most alarming thing that happens over time is the magnets can loosen in the rotor body and spin! yes they spin inside the rotor body, Deecannio has seen and heard this on his motor, I have a motor that is doing it now, its possible these could be epoxied back in but that would mean stripping the rotor which is a pig of a job, done that once before :x and not sure how you could stop them short of some very strong glue?

So yes the BMC is better to a point but they will eventually break unless you upgrade them or treat them with kid gloves a little, the X5 which I am currently running is IMHO a better motor than the Puma, sure it is heavier and doesnt have as much torque but if you keep the current to 35A and run no more than 72V, I think its very hard to beat, the Puma at that kind of power wont last anywhere near as long sure it will be quick but the windings get very hot and the solder joints can melt etc etc you have seen the posts.

Puma for 60V and 35A max in bursts, the X5 72 35A constant, I doubt will have any failures fit a torque arm of course!! I am speaking with some experience!! I still get a lot of mail from my Puma vids, sure they are a great motor but so are Xlyte motors.

Knoxie

Thanks for your input Knoxie. I actually live near the BMC US office and went down there to pick up some motors in person. I went for a small tour of the office and checked out there test lab. The motor I just got are the latest and greatest so I hope many of the issues you had are now resolved but only time will tell. I got all kinds of goodies including thumb throttle, full twist grip, half twist grip and two controllers one is a 25a 36v and the other is a 35a 24v - 48v controller made specifically for these motors. I know many people are using the crystalyte controllers with these motors but I figured I would use the BMC controllers and see what they can do. I am going to be installing the 35a controller this weekend and will post some pic's after I am done.

 

[turoczi]

1. The Puma hub motor has more torque than any other crystalyte on the market including the crystalyte X5 series.

2. The Puma hub motor is almost completely silent. The sound of the tires on the road is about as loud as the motor itself.

3. The Puma hub motors freewheel spin has absolutely no drag so milage can be improved by coasting on flat surfaces and down hills.

4. The Puma hub motor has internal gears so the motor needs less amps to run but still has the most torque of any motor on the market.

5. The Puma hub motor weights about 10 pounds which is more than half the weight of a crystalyte X5 motor it's closest rival.

I dont understand.. it has internal gears? With internal gears it is wasting 15-20% of battery life doe to friction/drag etc, same as a car loses 20-30% through its transmission.

Are they steel gears? If so why no noise? If not how will they last?

Just curious. Before purchasing a kit I saw a kit that had internal gears from grubee with long lasting metal gears and they werent real loud but loud, also they talked bout the loss of battery range due to the gears, wondering if this is the case.

THX!

 

[Lowell]

What is the no load current of a Puma?

 

[EcoForumZ]

What is the no load current of a Puma?

I think I pulled the wrong data. I will let you know.

 

[fechter]

What is the no load current of a Puma?

Hmm... I was getting around 2 amps @ 48v. About 2.4 amps @ 68v.

 

[geoff57]

What is the no load current of a Puma?

Hmm... I was getting around 2 amps @ 48v. About 2.4 amps @ 68v.

that sounds more like it, 12 sounds like a crusing current draw we want with the wheel off the ground max the throttle once settled take readings, if that is how you got 12 amps then there is a problem with somthing!

 

[Jonathan]

I dont understand.. it has internal gears? With internal gears it is wasting 15-20% of battery life doe to friction/drag etc, same as a car loses 20-30% through its transmission.

Are they steel gears? If so why no noise? If not how will they last?

Just curious. Before purchasing a kit I saw a kit that had internal gears from grubee with long lasting metal gears and they werent real loud but loud, also they talked bout the loss of battery range due to the gears, wondering if this is the case.

THX!

BMC / Puma does have an internal planetary gear. When you're coasting there is only road & freewheel noise same as a regular bike. When you engage the motor there is some noise. The Crystalyte DD motor, is always engaged so there is relatively more noise.

The gears are also made out of nylon which significantly reduce the noise when the motor is running.

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Some good observations, I was away for a few days and used the BMX for long stints along the sea front down in Weymouth, it was great! it is a very early BMC motor, they really do have their place, the X5 is a brute in comparison but it also has its place as I stated!

I found the noise to be quite minimal. people did notice and hear it if I whipped open the throttle though and yes it does freewheel very nicely, this motor has been the most robust Puma that I have ever had.

Heres me trackstanding it! I make it look so damn small!!

Knoxie

 

[docnjoj]

My general consensus with my other selves is that geared motors have better range than straight hub motors. This is particularly noticible on hills. On the flat the plain hubs may have a slight advantage at steady state max speed! My geared motors always draw less amps than plain hubs. This has been a completely imho, but checked witha Whattmeter al the time I ride! 2types of geared motors and 2 types of hub motors, all brushed!
otherDoc