Nanjing far driver controllers

[dominik h]

I am using the android version

 

[DingusMcGee]

Dominik h,

I will see what an android cell does in this regard. Thanks

 

[teknolocix]

There is a guy on youtube that has opened a 96850 and seems to know his stuff,96850 teardown might be the search

Thank you. I watched that video. I think the motor driver in the video is the new version. because it is different from my nd9850. The location of the components is different.

 

[DingusMcGee]

I have posted these thoughts in another thread but since the ideas also apply to Fardriver controllers I have copied it and reposted here:

Welcome to the world of Digital Deception. Whether your controller is Nucula, Fardriver, BAC or whatever, making programming changes to your controller in no way assures that you are getting what changes you have entered. One must perform real-time measurements of performance before and after to verify the changes were incorporated.

Such changes are subject to within the ranges of what OEM controller designers allow for changing the PID (Proportional, Integrative, Differential) variables which is likely the method of control for such systems as ebike controller. The controller may have pseudo updating. The change you post show up in the menu, but by the placebo effect we can feel the difference and are vicariously joyed by the new changes even though no changes where made to the PID’s. PID control systems measure/sample the variables ONCE over some small finite time interval and then allow the object controlled (BLDC motor) to evolve on its merry way until the next sample interval. Will the system stay stable over that the time duration when no monitoring happens? Not all possible PID variables keep the system stable.

Point in case. The CycleAnalyst can be programmed to change a throttle signal to WOT upon reaching the threshold throttle voltage. But the controller still does what the PID variables are programmed to do when encountering WOT. So unless the PID variables allow a real WOT signal to change the system as such, we only get what the PID variables allow.

Once we start needing changes over a small time interval, maybe say 1.0 second, we must use accurate timing and real measurements of the sought variables as opposed to just the feel.

 

[DingusMcGee]

The fardriver controller interface program has been changed. Perhaps as of sept 2023.

I have come across the instructions and procedures listed below to employ the old program that permitted PID parameter changes.

“ Modify the system time of the phone to August 2023, and there will be no issue with the app displaying expired versions.Old version FarDriverSigned.apk “

My iPhone does not permit system time modification. Plus the download is for android apps.

Will check this out later today using an android cell.




TESTED: It works.

Change time on android to August 1 2023. Then

Download this link: “https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah2tRa3de6yagwzbh8zhxL5hhuEn” to an android cell —install.

Proceed with normal navigation while in old version. Change PID parameters.. be sure to hit
“Save” and save again before exiting.

After leaving the android program and turning off the controller, I then connected to my re-powered controller with my IPhone and observed that the PID changes made on the android were now written to the controller.

The change from “high power default” to “super power motor” involved changing 3 PID parameters (see manual) and for these PID changes there is a noticeable change in acceleration.

 

[DingusMcGee]

The good Fardriver news from dun electric store in Malaysia:

“The new controllers are all unbound versions, you can use the latest APP.”

 

[gdg]

Good detailed manual here,

Fardrive Controller Manual by SiAECOSYS

Page 37-42

stability improvements can be made with those parameters.

I did find that and tried a few changes but no real difference. My guess at this point is I am up against the current limit on my BMS, UUP 72v, 25Ah, 60amp max.

 

[bunya]

I'm about to order a ND96680 from Siaecosys with a 4kW 138 motor. I intend to run the system on a 28s battery as per the maximum spec in the fardriver manual but wanted to check with others using the ND96XXX controllers at 28s? In my EL-EXC build thread some members have mentioned it is too close to the limit with a 115V operating voltage limit. I can see the over voltage protection kicks in at 121.5V and releases at 119.5V. Could you please provide any experience you have with this configuration?

 

[amberwolf]

I did find that and tried a few changes but no real difference. My guess at this point is I am up against the current limit on my BMS, UUP 72v, 25Ah, 60amp max.

If it's a BMS limit, it will simply shut off all power--that's the only thing a BMS can do--turn fully on, or turn fully off in response to any BMS limit being exceeded.

If that's not happening, it's not a BMS limit.

 

[dominik h]

In my EL-EXC build thread some members have mentioned it is too close to the limit with a 115V operating voltage limit.

Do not know for the ND96680.
I'm using the 72680 with 21S Liion charged to 87,5V. OvP is 90V. It works finde even with a lot of feald weakening.

For shure it would be safer to have higher voltage rated components, so they can survive higher voltage spikes.
I'm running my scooter at 650pA and 300bA Since 3000km no problems. Only melted and shorted the phase wires, which the controller also survived.

 

[bunya]

I'm using the 72680 with 21S Liion charged to 87,5V. OvP is 90V. It works finde even with a lot of feald weakening.

I'm running my scooter at 650pA and 300bA Since 3000km no problems. Only melted and shorted the phase wires, which the controller also survived.

Thanks, I'll go ahead with the order and dial the current and voltage back to begin with. It seems you are using nearly all of its capability!

 

[DingusMcGee]

The Latest SNAG in using a Fardriver Controller……….?

The NEW open user Fardriver motor/controller cell program is not without major problems to US inhabitants. I have not been successful in the necessary steps needed to reset parameters on my latest Fardriver controller purchase. Without being able to access and change parameters in the setup program such an unmodified controller is worthless to a home ebike builder.

The problem is not Fardriver the company, but the method of access their medium of user verification (WeChat) Fardriver employs. In order to use WeChat (think QR code) you must join WeChat. Joining WeChat takes more verifications than setting up a bank account in the USA.

So far I have not been successful in joining WeChat. After completing several verification steps a QR code appears on your cell screen. The QR code has to be scanned by an active WeChat member. The active member must then assert over wherever the activated QR takes him, that you are indeed the person trying to join WeChat. Are these steps the last of the hoops?

My problem in rural Wyoming is finding an active WeChat user. There are Facebook users but maybe an oriental person on campus belongs to WeChat? Would some random person verify my identity?

Online searches produce directions of how to get around the problem of separate user verification. Those attempting to join but have some problem in joining can go to either ‘Help” or “security” to resolve an issue by request. These option do appear before the QR code other person verification screen. I have tried doing such a problem resolution request but have not heard back. Are they trying to send a reply via WeChat?

 

[DingusMcGee]

Problem with Fardriver “Login to Bind” Solved

The controller will not store “save” changes in cell parameter input unless you have gotten their code number and entered it at the beginning of the cell program — It turns out that I was getting the code all along via the email method as I first requested. My browser put the code message in SPAM and I did not look there for such an email.

You do not have to join WeChat to get the code for binding.

The Fardriver app also has an option of SMS (Text) but when trying either my USA cell # with or without the “+1” preceding the 10 digit number, I got a return message saying, “Invalid cell number.”

A Malaysian friend,”The new controller/motor is now adjusted for the motor, batteries, performance and it now works as the previous Fardriver controllers have”.

PS — Should you insist on WeChat, I did get this helping message from WeChat a few days after the request:

Dear user, this is WeChat Support Team. We're here to help!For your situation, please visit 【 https://help.wechat.com/cgi-bin/mic...d=180129nffey7180129uyaf3q&Channel=helpcenter 】and carefully read the relevant guidelines that you could adopt to resolve your problem(s) through “How do I sign up WeChat if I need a friend to scan the code?”.
Thanks for your patience and continuous support.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

I can't understand while they keep insisting on ruining their otherwise great product with such stupid decisions.
Having to use wechat to access the app is complete nonsense. Same thing for these ridiculous code numbers.

Why can't they just sell their product with a simple app that works, spend some time on translation, a clear documentation and none of that ridiculous shit?
It's not rocket science compared to actually making the controller itself, that's supposed to be the easy part!

 

[Iambuilderman]

I was considering buying a qs 180 90h + nd721800 or nd961800, but seeing all the trouble with you guys not getting to work your fd controllers properly (slow ramp up of phase amps, jitters and judders at top speed, regen voltage problems) makes me hesitant. Do any of you have success stories where the controller + qs motor works exactly as it should, with amps maxed out (battery and phase), proper regen and no jitters at max speed? Currently, i am very happy with my highly customized 18 fet kt controllers (custom firmware, 72v, 200 battery amps, 300 - 350 phase amps and barely warm) and customized 24 fet sabvoton controllers (72v, 200 batt amps and 400 - 450 phase amps). These are an order of magnitude less expensive. So for the money that the nd controller costs, i would expect to at least have the same quality level and flawless operation… any positive experiences would help here!

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

any positive experiences would help here!

Yeah I'm pretty happy with my 721800. Had a rough start because of firmware issues, but once I got it working everything was fine.
Can't say I maxxed out the amps obviously because it's rated at 1300A battery and 1800A phase amps, my battery can barely deliver half of that and so far my motor can only take a third of that, so it's not the controller's fault.

It is definitely a lot more powerful than my sabvoton controllers, although I really enjoyed these. They aren't boxing in the same category.
Way better than any Kelly I tried, can't say I liked em very much.

Votol controllers are a great deal as well, I just fitted a EM-150 controller on my scooter and it is very impressive, especially considering its price. The EM150 has way more power than my unlocked Sabvoton (I think right now my sabvoton is set at around 250 battery amps and 600 phase amps). An by more power I mean a lot more , and on the whole speed range. It also allows for a noticeably higher top speed. On my scooter I could reach around 90km/h with the sabvoton, now with the votol I can reach 110km/h and I haven't played much with the flux weakening settings yet so there's still room for more.

Flawless operation and great quality levels is not to be expected from chinese controllers, unfortunately. At least today. They do not care at all about the quality of the app nor the documentation. The hardware itself if pretty good, but the app and doc always suck terribly. They do not want to improve on that, we already tried to ask some manufacturer to help them improve their documentation and translations for free , they declined. Go figure.

I'm not sure what vehicle you own, but given the power figures you're talking about I feel like a votol EM-150 should be a good fit.

 

[dominik h]

I killed an SVMC72260 and an SVMC72150 with weakening field.
Phase current rising takes also a second on the sabvoton. I checked this with a scope meter and a rogovski Probe.

I will definitiv never change back to a sabvoton, even if it was the easiest setup that I have ever seen. It took me 5 Minutes after the first Bluetooth connection until I could drive.
The Sabvotins are huge for their power level. The Fardriver ND72680 is 70% from the size of the SVMC72150 and has nearly twice the power.

 

[Iambuilderman]

Ok, that is useful feedback, thank you. Currently, I ride ebikes that weigh between 35 kg (carbon mtb) - 60 kg (alu daily driver). For that category, the kt and sabvoton controllers configured around 15 kW are a very nice fit; I don’t feel i need much more than that (more phase amps only results in wheelies; not faster acceleration. Top speed of around 95 km/h (battery limited) is also plenty for these light bikes. They already feel like rockets.

But i found a street legal road going around atv of 250kg, that is specced with a 4 kW (rated?) motor. This looks like a great platform to go all out with a fadriver controller, aiming for some 35 kW. You always need new ev dreams!

 

[Iambuilderman]

With respect to the slow rise of phase amps: with my sabvotons, i found that after startup the first acceleration is slow; it almost seems like the controller is first trying to find the correct phase angle compensation? At least, that is my interpretation of what is happening. But after this first slow acceleration the next ones are much more powerful, and i can do instantaneous back-flip like wheelies when i am not careful. This was happening when i still had a torque sensor pedal assist configured on my cycle analyst. For safety reasons (after unintentional wheelies during the crossing of a street), i disabled the torque sensor and made it a simple peddle assist (rotation only) system. This taned the beast; i use manual throttle to quickly accelerate when needed.

So maybe the fardriver is doing similar things as the sabvoton during initial acceleration? I am just guessing here, absolutely no experience with the fardrivers.

 

[dominik h]

I had used the Sabvotons on my 183kg heavy scooter, here you can feel the phase current ramp up.
600A phase current is far from a wheelie.
The two Sabvontons died in a no load scenario, sitting on the main stand with the wheel in the air is definitly the killer, on the road i drove half a year with activated weakening field.
The fardriver keeps the field weakening enabled until the motor ist back in a safe rpm range.
The Sabvoton turns off field weakening when you close the throttle and then you get a much higher voltage back from the motor than the controller can handle.

 

[Iambuilderman]

(I think right now my sabvoton is set at around 250 battery amps and 600 phase amps).

600 phase amps for a 24fet sabvoton is rather amazing; that is 150 amps per mosfet! I usually stop at 100 - 120 phase amps per mosfet and some 70 battery amps per mosfet. I never blew a MOSFET during active duty though; only during testing of firmware settings. Did you modify your sabvoton hardware for that? I have added 4 more 1000 uF capacitors + some large cbb snubber capacitors + additional copper wires to all mosfet legs + a copper busbar + Liquid Metal (cooling + electric conduction) + tons of thermal paste (bridge poor factory cooling air gaps) to my sabvoton, so i feel like it could handle a bit more than the 200 battery/450 phase amps i am feeding it right now. It doesn’t get hot at all. Phase wires are tripled (9 in total) in a mxus 3k style hub motor, so those can take a beating as well. But 600 phase amps sure sounds like a lot for a 24 fet!!

 

[Iambuilderman]

I had used the Sabvotons on my 183kg heavy scooter, here you can feel the phase current ramp up.
600A phase current is far from a wheelie.
The two Sabvontons died in a no load scenario, sitting on the main stand with the wheel in the air is definitly the killer, on the road i drove half a year with activated weakening field.
The fardriver keeps the field weakening enabled until the motor ist back in a safe rpm range.
The Sabvoton turns off field weakening when you close the throttle and then you get a much higher voltage back from the motor than the controller can handle.

Yes, be careful with field weakening and no load testing of controllers + motors, that is a very useful warning for everybody. For that reason, i have set a max speed limit of 95 km/h in my cycle analyst (piggy back control system for ev controllers), so that the motor will never spin beyond safe regen voltage levels. Of course the safe speed/rpm is different for each configuration of windings and voltages. Just a general warning and solution: limit your max rpm to a level that your motor can also reach without field weakening.

 

[Iambuilderman]

Votol controllers are a great deal as well, I just fitted a EM-150 controller on my scooter and it is very impressive, especially considering its price.

Based on your suggestions, I looked into a Votol vs Fardriver comparison as well. The channel ‘ev components review’ has a teardown of the Votol Em-150 as well as of a Fardriver controller. The Votol controller looks very nice indeed. Only small modifications needed to make the power supply/stage even better. I see Votol also has more powerful versions of their controllers. Seems like this is the way to go for me, thanks!

 

[Tomorrowwedietodayweride]

A lot of you spoke about the necessity or benefit of a kill switch.
And some posted images like this:


That´s a standard DIN rail breaker (I would need that for DC 100A, not a problem).
But where do you all place such a breaker on your motorbikes??

a) it makes only sense when it's somewhere rain-proof
b) easily accessible, else it is not "for emergencies", like you want
I can't seem to find such place on mine?

Has anyone used those standard kill switches found on traditional (non-e) bikes? (my Suzuki had it too, of course)
And for a setup as high as 100A - Which switch holds up? Anyone has experience to share?

 

[dominik h]

The switch on the handle bar does not cut battery current. It only switches off an input of the controller which makes the controller stop.