[nearly original] An update on what I know from my end

[rhitee05]

Yikes, this is what I get for not visiting for a few days. I'm sure everything will work out once the collective takes a deep breath and lets things settle. Maybe some people should read this:
http://www.notquitewrong.com/rosscottinc/2011/08/03/so-youre-mad-about-something-on-the-internet/

For what it's worth, I second the idea of setting up a non-profit structure here or as the new home. Something community-based to support the community. Nothing against a really well-intentioned person such as Justin, but a single person is still a weakness. Spreading out the governance is good, and it gives a chance to set some principles in the charter and bylaws.

That said, in the short-term getting this done will require the efforts of the handful of really dedicated members. To them - thank you! I will otherwise keep my uninformed speculation to myself.

 

[John in CR]

As we make the jump we have to get Safe back on ES. Then Trevor will have plenty of content to fill the void, complete with charts and colorful text.

 

[marty]

Here is my suggestion.... Tell Trevor that we are real sorry about what happened here and forbid him from making any changes to our forum. That includes no adds. Trevor can moderate if he likes, the same as all the other moderators.

The server that we are on now seems fast enough to me. I am guessing that hosting shouldn't cost more then $10 a month. As far as money for labor to keep the forum running, the moderators we have now are doing a fine job. Thanks guys!

If Trevor needs help with the cost of hosting? He can ask for donations.
If Icecube57 needs money to pay for medical expenses due to a broke wrist? He can ask for donations.
If Fechter needs some extra money to pay his bills? He can ask for donations. See topic http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=20496

Donations to Endless Sphere

Postby fechter » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:02 pm
If you still want to contribute to Fechter's research fund, send PayPal to:
Endless_Sphere@yahoo.com
I'll gladly accept donations for my research projects, but have decided to keep it separate from the forum operation. A large percentage of previous donations did go to knightmb for operations.

Thanks for your support!

If Trevor don't agree to our demands? We do everything in our power to destroy this forum and start a new forum. Its not really hard to start a forum. Look what I did. Only took me about a hour to figure out how to make a phpBB forum.
http://voltev.com/forum/index.php
I do think it would be best if we stay right here. I like this forum just the way it is.

 

[marty]

Looking at parallel-paths, does anyone know of any automated tools that would allow a user to grab all of their posts? I looked into writing scripts to do this, but it will undoubtedly take me longer to do than would be necessary. I'm manually backing up myself.

Hell, it might be better to start new with a hand-edited version of ES anyway....

See this topic: Exporting posts
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30466

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Marty,

If Trevor don't agree to our demands? We do everything in our power to destroy this forum and start a new forum. Its not really hard to start a forum. Look what I did. Only took me about a hour to figure out how to make a phpBB forum.
http://voltev.com/forum/index.php
I do think it would be best if we stay right here. I like this forum just the way it is.

Why not try to work out a mutually acceptable solution and if that fails move on and wish Trevor well? What do we gain by spending time and energy destroying his forum? As Rodney King said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King#Post-arrest_events

On May 1, 1992, the third day of the L.A. riots, King appeared in public before television news cameras to appeal for peace, asking:
“ ...can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....They won the battle, but they haven't won the war....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out.

 

[amberwolf]

I think all of us as human beings owe it to ourselves and our fellow human beings to try to go beyond just solutions and try to find compassionate solutions. Do any of us owe the millions of starving refugee's in Somalia anything? No, but we are better human beings if we all try to help each other as much as we reasonably can.

Though apparently the comparison is too extreme for some to allow, I agree with this; I also prefer many Buddhist points of view on things over most of the other views I've experienced. (it's taken me many years to journey down this road, as I was not a good or happy person my whole life, and I certainly didn't *try* to be for far too long).

Others have helped me when they had no reason to; in fact, when they had good reason not to--but they still helped. That kind of thing makes a better world, especially when those who are helped learn from it, like I did (even though it took me a lot longer than it should have to do so).


I still get very angry sometimes, so much so that I must walk away from people/etc., so that I don't hurt or destroy them in my angry frustration. Sometimes it's temporary, just a minute or two, and sometimes it's forever, because I know I can't deal with them. But I do walk away, when I have to.

Yet, I want to do as much as I can to preserve this forum, here. It's like a home, and I don't just hate moving, I am very uncomfortable when things change that much. It's frightening, although I doubt many non-autistics would truly understand why; lots of people I have talked about that with think it's stupid to feel like that, and I understand, as they can't experience life like I do. (although, again, I used to hate them for not understanding, until I eventually learned most people aren't like me, or even like each other).


So...I'd say wait and see. I don't think anyone other than ourselves are likely to destroy anything here on the forum, or cause us any grief, until after all this is worked out. What will waiting cost you?

 

[RVD]

justin needs 12 hours...he has it. but this group looks like it's almost done packing and ready to move...pretty soon the ship will have sailed.

the only solution here is trevor has to give it up...for free. he probably won't do that so time to pull up the anchor and leave...

 

[Ypedal]

nobody should be buying a house in 12 hours time lol... everybody chill out and please give this some time. For the immediate moment the forum is safe and sound and staying as-is, information will come in due time ! 8)

 

[Gordo]

Hey guys, I know the suspense and anger levels and all of that are pretty intense right now but I really want to re-itterate that the plan was to have today as an opportunity to hash out with Trevor possibilities that would enable us to keep the ES site as it presently sits and in our hands, and not need to have to completely abandon this ship and everything that went into building it.

I completely understand the sentiments being expressed here but I would plead that for the next 12 hours if we could at least hold tight and give this a chance before calling it a game over. If there is a reasonable to save what we have here it would be worthwhile and in most of our best interests. 12 hours guys, it's not that long.
-Justin

The request was made @ 1:00 pm PST. So be polite and wait. We all want this mess over and done with, no more than the guys on the front line.

 

[methods]

I am signing off. Looks like you guys have Fechter and Y-pedal to keep you in the loop.

I am, as I have always been, confident that we will prevail.


-methods

 

[Ypedal]

1:15 am over here.. going to bed too.. i hope i wake up to some good news.. ! :lol:

 

[amberwolf]

I'm going to have to sign off soon as I have to be at work really early in the morning tomorrow, but I am sure I will not be able to sleep well and will end up checking in more than once. If I hear anything I'll post it.


Still, even after 12 hours, I'd keep waiting. This place is worth waiting for, don'tcha think?

 

[justin_le]

No busting out the champaign yet, but a quick update for those still awake is that I presented Trevor with a handful of options earlier today that felt like compromise solutions to me.

He agreed in principle to proceed with one of those, that would result in a transfer of ES ownership (to the extend that the data is actually owned, yes I know all the issues) within the next couple days, and him taking a significant loss in the process. I am waiting for a formal contract that is outlining all the terms and if everything is as we said then this could proceed tomorrow (Monday) as initially suggested.

I know that there has been a lot of discomfort about the idea of any one person buying this in the first place, and have read with heavy intent all the posts and personal messages that have come my way. I will get to address all of that in due course should things proceed. For now I kinda want to sleep.

If people think I am a bit of a fool for trying to preserve this rather than abandoning pastures and starting anew, that is fine. I guess I am motivated by the same reasons that people donate to the land conservatory, to buy back precious and historic sites otherwise slated of development, so that they can be preserved for generations to come.

-Justin

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

wow, you work fast.
figured we might be still waiting till next weekend.

thanx all for literally tireless effort, whether it bears fruit or not.
i thought she was a goner fer sur but you made a believer out of me.

 

[deVries]

Subject: An update on what I know from my end

No busting out the champaign yet, but a quick update for those still awake is that I presented Trevor with a handful of options earlier today that felt like compromise solutions to me.

He agreed in principle to proceed with one of those, that would result in a transfer of ES ownership (to the extend that the data is actually owned, yes I know all the issues) within the next couple days, and him taking a significant loss in the process. I am waiting for a formal contract that is outlining all the terms and if everything is as we said then this could proceed tomorrow (Monday) as initially suggested.

I know that there has been a lot of discomfort about the idea of any one person buying this in the first place, and have read with heavy intent all the posts and personal messages that have come my way. I will get to address all of that in due course should things proceed. For now I kinda want to sleep.

If people think I am a bit of a fool for trying to preserve this rather than abandoning pastures and starting anew, that is fine. I guess I am motivated by the same reasons that people donate to the land conservatory, to buy back precious and historic sites otherwise slated of development, so that they can be preserved for generations to come.

-Justin

Great news Justin... 8)

If Trevor is Kool with what you seem to have as an agreement in principal & it all pans out within 1-2 days, then I agree with you it's better to do it this way rather than burning the ES house down. You are no fool in my book.

I suggest contacting MWKeefer if you need help/advice with this becoming a non-profit or coop and/or need server space, since he has the equipment & know how too! 8)

Good Luck & THANKS.

AND, TREVOR, THANK YOU TOO SINCERELY IF YOU DO WHAT IS FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

 

[Miles]

If people think I am a bit of a fool for trying to preserve this rather than abandoning pastures and starting anew, that is fine. I guess I am motivated by the same reasons that people donate to the land conservatory, to buy back precious and historic sites otherwise slated of development, so that they can be preserved for generations to come.

I think this is a perfectly reasonable position and you certainly have my support.

 

[liveforphysics]

Justin- You're amazing, I love you, we all love you.

You're a bad-ass dude, and if we can help you, please let us!

 

[methods]

Do I get to say "I told you so" yet?

Sorry you guys had to see me get ugly but this is what it was all for.... I promise to sulk back to my LVC/HVC/Parallel thread and mope there now that this is resolved.

-methods

 

[fechter]

Great work Justin!

The community owes you a huge debt of gratitude. We'll figure out a way to make it up to you.

 

[deVries]

Do I get to say "I told you so" yet?

According to GreenMachine you were a fighter right from the get-go in the Moderator Forum...

Hey, you played a crucial role of fighting back w/LFP too. No mincing words & just laying it out there. There are some cultural differences between California speak & more "mannered" parts of the world, even USA too, so some will think it's a bit over the top... We all understand that too... :wink:

So, thanks for the tough words that cut to the bone of this matter. We can all calm down & tone it down now...

Thanks Methods, LFP, and Fechter too. We have an awesome team that got results, and I mean fast too!!! 8)

 

[Starson]

Do I get to say "I told you so" yet?

Sorry you guys had to see me get ugly but this is what it was all for.... I promise to sulk back to my LVC/HVC/Parallel thread and mope there now that this is resolved.

-methods

Here's a poem that I think captures the struggle of the last few days. I admire all who put themselves on the line for what they truly believe in.

A Poem By Rudyard Kipling -

IF

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream and not make dreams your master;
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Gary

 

[only1jake]

Justin for the win!!
That was fast Justin and I hope it works out!!!

Thanks too Trevor!!

 

[StudEbiker]

Okay, signing off for the night. Glad to hear there is progress and that resolution may be getting close. Thanks to everyone that's making this work. See you in the morning.

 

[jonathanm]

great news just before bed.

Well done Justin, I look forward to reading that the paperwork is signed very soon.

I also hope there is full disclosure about what happens, what has happened and what will happen, but that can all wait until everything is settled.....

 

[neptronix]

I still think you're a fool but i'll stand behind your foolishness.

Cheers.