[nearly original] Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

[dequinox]

You keep asking about what my intent is. I thought I communicated this with you in my previous posts but I guess it was not clear enough:
- Make sure the server and hardware infrastructure for the community is powerful and the site is as quick as possible.
- Discuss how to setup the forums to keep the discussions more neatly organized
- Upgrade the software running the site to vBulletin
- Develop a vendor program so we serve nice looking and relevant ads to our viewers (logged in members can turned off the ads at anytime)
- Setup a wiki system to better document systems, components and any other related information about EVs.
- Find ways to give back to the EV community and take care of the members who have contributed to making ES such a great place.

It's Friday night and after all the stress from taking this thread personally I am going to sign off for the night and have a beer.

I think if you read between the lines you'll find the deal-breakers, as we have communicated what they are over and over again. The core technical expertise and community base on this site will leave if you implement either of those options...and you'll have a newb forum on your hands with many mild-intellects running amok.

As for taking this all personally that is your choice. You've put forth no real introduction to who you are and have evaded direct questions about your intentions. All you gave us in the beginning of this thread was your ebike building story and how impressed you were with what ES is... that doesn't tell us anything and it certainly doesn't instill trust in you. You opened like you were our new CEO or something... all you own is the website pal. We can go somewhere else.

The kicker is I was genuinely interested in some of the improvements you were offering until your friend Andy showed up and started told a tiny bit about how this shock of a sale came to be, and shed a mere sliver of light on who you are. That should have been you from the beginning. We want you to be REAL with us. This isn't a business meeting, its a village...and now as far as we're concerned you're here to mow down the neighborhood to build a wal-mart. What I just said is specious and exaggerated, but true nonetheless.

 

[mud2005]

I'm starting to wonder, when does it get to the point where we want to build a new forum "by members for members" just to crush ES and leave these guys with a worthless investment.

have I gone to far????

SORRY AMBERWOLF, this is a travesty and I too am in torment. it's gonna be ok buddy

 

[Joseph C.]

Don't worry amberwolf - that is covered by more than a few members.
We will lose no content - it is already safe and preserved where our new masters can not touch it.

Anyone who is backing up - KEEP GOING.
More is better.... I would prefer that we don't even have to lose an hour of IP over this nonsense.

-methods

Maybe this isn't the right time but what does IP stand for? Intellectual Property?

 

[Lessss]

The sad thing is that the open source IP here can't be deleted, it now has a backup with the new owner and even if you deleted every post it'll be restored from that backup. You will literally have to sue to have your IP removed.

Yes IP is intellectual property. The new owners bought the domain name, knightmb didn't own the content to sell. He had every right to sell the domain and the new owners had every right to buy the domain. the content however IS protected under open source.

 

[amberwolf]

Maybe this isn't the right time but what does IP stand for? Intellectual Property?

Yes.

Don't worry amberwolf - that is covered by more than a few members.
We will lose no content - it is already safe and preserved where our new masters can not touch it.

The entire forum and all attachments? If so, good.

But I still have to make some room on my regular drive for backing up all my own threads and all those I have participated in, as there is not enough space right now (I had to find and wipe an old system drive to get space to try the HTTrack, I just hope I didn't have any data on that drive, as I didnt really have time to check).

I was upset enough about Nuts_and_Volts (the first one) and his hissy fit swiss-cheesing of the forum for no reason I could comprehend, that I do not want to lose anything else I've contributed to.

It makes me uneasy about even wanting to post help in others' threads now, that either it'll end up lost or inaccessible, or that it'll end up as ad-bait.

I'm almost upset enough about the whole ad-bait vs IP thing to turn off the adsense and whatnot on my blog, but if I do I'll lose anything "earned" by it so far that's not yet been sent to me, and I kinda need that, someday, whenever they get around to sending me any--so they'll have earned even more money off me that they don't have to pay out.

 

[Joseph C.]

The sad thing is that the open source IP here can't be deleted, it now has a backup with the new owner and even if you deleted every post it'll be restored from that backup. You will literally have to sue to have your IP removed.

Yes IP is intellectual property. The new owners bought the domain name, knightmb didn't own the content to sell. He had every right to sell the domain and the new owners had every right to buy the domain. the content however IS protected under open source.

You are correct but this may help, it is worth a shot anyway.

http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/04/10/what-do-you-do-when-someone-steals-your-content/

 

[Philistine]

When I first read this thread I felt people were overreacting. What I mean by this is that I am a realist and I always thought it was amazing and unique (and probably not sustainable) that this site was effectively hosted for free. So at first I thought the proposal was that the site was being bought by an enthusiast that essentially wanted to guarantee the longevity of the forum and make enough money for him to operate it on a full time basis (ie, that the advertising revenue goal would be to pay for the server and compensate him with a full time salary only).

Having seen all the links to other sites I now realise I was way off base, and that the initial aggressive reactions were spot on. I always loved the line from the film Hurly Burley

Darlene: "Paranoid Eddie, thinking I am up to something is being paranoid!"
Eddie: "Not if you're up to something its not!"

Whilst the realist in me thinks it is unrealistic to think that things can just operate for free, I also think that the unique spirit of ES (I have never contributed to any other forum in my life - I have never seen such an interesting and unique community), demands that it exist in a not for profit realm.

So to me now the question just becomes how best to get that to happen?

I respect some people's suggestions about a not for profit company structure with a board etc.., but I also think that there is a lot to be said for a benevolent dictatorship. If the core gurus were happy to do the legwork of finding server space and getting a new forum going, I would happily throw (potentially hundreds of dollars) into the ring to get it started, if I was confident that the benevolent dictator was going to be one of the core gurus (I think we all know who that list would be), so that I was confident it would continue to be run in the style it has to date.

 

[nicobie]

No need to sue.

Just give the guy the piss every opportunity, and in every forum you frequent.

Let google keep score.

 

[dequinox]

Methods/AmberW is there a faster way to back up than the "Save Page As" option? Thats what I'm doing with all of my posts and all the threads/pages they are associated with... or is there a better way?

 

[Chalo]

Also, StudEbiker, idk if it's new (I don't remember noticing it before, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything), but I found the last quote in your sig quite appropriate to the situation.

"You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

It's been there for awhile, but I couldn't help notice how appropriate it is in this thread as well.

John Galt he ain't. But then nobody is, or ever has been.

Chalo

 

[Joseph C.]

I'm almost upset enough about the whole ad-bait vs IP thing to turn off the adsense and whatnot on my blog, but if I do I'll lose anything "earned" by it so far that's not yet been sent to me, and I kinda need that, someday, whenever they get around to sending me any--so they'll have earned even more money off me that they don't have to pay out.

Having ads on your own site that you created is completely different, Amberwolf.

There is nothing wrong with ads or commercialisation when it is your own property. I believe generally ad companies pays the website owner at least 60 per cent.

 

[amberwolf]

Methods/AmberW is there a faster way to back up than the "Save Page As" option? Thats what I'm doing with all of my posts and all the threads/pages they are associated with... or is there a better way?

You're using the best single-user option I'm aware of.

HTTrack and similar software wont' backup the images and attachments, because it cant' login to read them, and even when it sends the same user-agent data as your browser, from the same computer/IP/etc., the forum doesnt' respond to it as if it were you.

If a script could be written to allow a browser to do what HTTrack does, while you are logged in, it would allow you to automate the copying off of all the threads and pictures and attachments, for whatever parts of the forum you wanted to save locally.

I've wished for such an option for years, but I am not aware of one, and I get along with programming about as well as I do with math.

Having ads on your own site that you created is completely different, Amberwolf.

Actually, in this case, it isn't--even though it is my own IP, I'm allowing it to be used as ad-bait exactly as I will not allow my IP on Endless Sphere to be used. It's hypocritical of me.

 

[Joseph C.]

I respect some people's suggestions about a not for profit company structure with a board etc.., but I also think that there is a lot to be said for a benevolent dictatorship. If the core gurus were happy to do the legwork of finding server space and getting a new forum going, I would happily throw (potentially hundreds of dollars) into the ring to get it started, if I was confident that the benevolent dictator was going to be one of the core gurus (I think we all know who that list would be), so that I was confident it would continue to be run in the style it has to date.

That is a good short-term strategy but what happens when the benevolent dictator is no longer around? Long-term, having any form of dictator running anything is doomed. We should be thinking decades in advance not years.

 

[mauimart]

Just thought I'd get a post into the thread that goes down in history as being the one that destroyed the last of the remaining useful forums. I don't have many posts to speak of yet since becoming a member I have learned to rewind motors, smoke both home-made and commercial controllers, migrated from lead to lithium, built two kick-ass (IMHO) ebikes, and the list goes on, all as a result of engaging within this great community. Enough said. Screw the drink, I'm gonna go put some more ruts in the yard with my ebike...
over

[youtube]uaObaj-gKRI[/youtube]

 

[Ypedal]

I still think ES can continue as it was, but not under this type of ownership...

Come on Trevor, i think it's obvious by now that it's best for everyone that you go fishing somewhere else, give us a reasonable price / dollar figure and give us back the keys to the house..

 

[Lessss]

Amberwolf, easiest would be to get access to the OLD sites FTP and grab direct from the FTP

 

[StudEbiker]

I still think ES can continue as it was, but not under this type of ownership...

Come on Trevor, i think it's obvious by now that it's best for everyone that you go fishing somewhere else, give us a reasonable price / dollar figure and give us back the keys to the house..

+1!

 

[jonescg]

I kind of get this feeling:
http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/5/5a/Black.jpg

 

[bigmoose]

Trevor

Simple solution... BTW folks "they" are doing what they intend to do. They have no intention of listening to us. We are all expendable to them. They have plans. They have succeeded in the past. They will force their hand.

Trevor also known as a scuttling charge in the industry.

 

[Joseph C.]

Actually, in this case, it isn't--even though it is my own IP, I'm allowing it to be used as ad-bait exactly as I will not allow my IP on Endless Sphere to be used. It's hypocritical of me.

Two of the most important aspects of law are degree and intent, some of the few things I actually still retain from studying it .

Degree, together with intent, can mean the difference between a murder and an accident even if in both cases it was the same action that caused them.

You never intended to monetise your posts on the Sphere. You posted here with that express purpose. You did intend, at some point, to monetise your website.

Secondly, this forum cannot be cut into pieces and allocated shares because no single contributor owns it. The difference being that it is unfair for you, or I, to monetise our posts here. If you were to gain financial reward for your posts it would not be exclusively down to your work. The fact that people were visiting your posts and clicking on your ads would also be due to the contributions of other members.

Whereas, with your own site everything is down to your work. It would not exist without you.

You are verging towards black and white thinking here and absolutes. It isn't 100 per cent clear cut but if I were you I would rest assured that if there is any hypocrisy in you not monetising your posts and monetising your own site, it is a tiny hypocrisy. It is sometimes necessary to have hypocrisy when it is overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Dee Jay]

[youtube]mhViRRmCvTI[/youtube]

 

[Dee Jay]

I know jack about how forums are run but isnt there a way to transform this ES cocoon into butterfly that would fly freely through cyberspace? You know, like movies shared via P2P?

 

[Lenk42602]

Fellas,

I have made a personal decision. I am not going to support Trevor's endeavor to derive personal profit at all of your individual and collective efforts.

Prior to this going public on the sphere ALL of the questions that have been asked - Trevor's transparency regarding his motives, sharing his business plan with transparency, long and short term strategic goals, etc. Were brought about by myself and the other mods in order to see what he was all about. I was hoping that we could gain this information, digest, and then help advocate for our new owner when it got to this stage. However, sufficient patterns, time and truth has revealed itself to an extent that it is clear to me that this individual is not the kind of people I choose to be around in my life anymore, virtual or real time.

With that, I am officially pledging to ALL MEMBERS of this sphere that I willing to do whatever it takes, (in whatever capacity I can), to preserve or rebuild if necessary, the things that made this forum last as long as it has.

Trevor, just as in the private discussion, you have once again been unable to hear The Voice of this community. You understand that you will lose money when traffic to the forum slows due to the 5%r's leaving , right? The members are clear about their intentions & motvation for being here. You are not clear, despite repeated inquiries, about yours. Conjecture here, but it would lead me to believe that this is because you know your intentions and motivations are not aligned with The Voice.

You should really consider selling this site. You will, at worst break even. YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED with this audience and the topography of the results of your past "business plans".

You either are simply too connected to the matrix to see this, or just to young to understand.

I will continue to mod in the limited capacity I have as necessary, but as I do very little comparitvely speaking, it would not bother me in the least if I was "demoted".

Sell the site to those that actually own the content.

Speaking at The Voice - I am at your service, and please, anyone, let me know what I can do to assist.

Respectfully,

Len

 

[geetarboy]

I still think ES can continue as it was, but not under this type of ownership...

Come on Trevor, i think it's obvious by now that it's best for everyone that you go fishing somewhere else, give us a reasonable price / dollar figure and give us back the keys to the house..

I contributed $25.00 to the "ES Fund" about a year ago. I thought that money was to help pay for "OUR" site in lieu of advertizing, duh..uh.. I guess I'm just stupid!
"LET'S HAVE A VOTE" - my vote is "IMPEACH TREVOR" 8)

 

[Lessss]

Can one of the admins or some one tell me, was my $$$ contribution to keep this place running used up already or should there have been some left over? If left over I would like a partial refund from Knightmb please.