Need directions on some wiring EVG 24v bike

[Cosmic]

As the title says, I'm trying to fix up my trusty old EV Global 24v ebike. It's an old bike, but it's still good!
It got a bit roughed up in my move from Utah to Oregon, but I think it's all good.
I used a bench top power supply to test the horn, and the motor, and both are working good. I reconnected the lights, throttle, and horn controls up to the controller, and got the controller hooked up to the power supply, and it all seems good. It's reading out as if it has a full battery, and I hear a relay click when I turn it on and off, and I think that's a good sign?

What I'm really confused about is how to hook up the motor leads.

The motor has these 4 wires, two of which are sensor wires, and that's pretty straightforward. They all quick connect into a junction box, and then from there I'm at a loss.

There's a blue and red terminal (both ring terminals) for passing power to the motor; but where do they go???
The controller is pretty straightforward; everything connects to it with tiny connectors, and then it has spade connectors that attach to the power terminals.

I'm at a loss as to where to connect the blue and red wires, and the service manual is seemingly no help. There's no place to connect the ring terminals except for the initial battery leads, but that'd pass 100% power to the motor at all times.

I'm at a loss as to where they're supposed to interface with the controller, which is the stock controller that came with it.

I can't find any diagrams or pictures online. Do any of you have a EV Global bike and could tell me how it's wired up?

 

[E-HP]

Pictures might help

 

[amberwolf]

Without some pics of what you've got available for connections and wiring, it's tough to say where you should connect things.

If the only ring terminals in use are those on the motor and on the battery, then it sounds like something is missing from the bike, perhaps a terminal block.

I would expect that they would all go back the same way you disconnected them before doing the rewiring, if you are using the same parts, so you should be able to reference your before pictures with the present state of things to help figure it out. If you didn't take any before pics or make any notes as you disconnected things, it's possible that there are useful reference pics in some of the EVG threads around here (but most of the threads are pretty old and pics may not have been locally hosted, and so may be gone).

It's been ages since I have seen EVG parts in person; somewhere here I might still have the semi-triangular main box with the boards in it, and possibly some of the handlebar controls, but I don't know where they would be. If necessary I can try to find them to take pics for reference, but I don't have the wiring harness, motor, etc.

Most of these threads are not likely to be useful, but some could be:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=evg&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=%22ev+global%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search


If there isn't any useful stuff in those, then some questions that may help us help you get it working again:

Did it work properly before the move?

What, exactly, specifically, and precisely, happened to it between the time it worked and the time it didn't? This will help us figure out what might be wrong, or missing, that was keeping it from working before it's present state of reassembly.

Which specific exact things have been disconnected, wire by wire, including but not limited to what is listed in your original post? Not just the ones you still need to reconnect, but *everything* that was disconnected. This will help us build a list of connections to be made, so you don't have any leftover stuff when you're done.

 

[Cosmic]

Without some pics of what you've got available for connections and wiring, it's tough to say where you should connect things.

I'll post some pics in a second, but I tried my best to explain everything. I think I'll likely need some help from someone who's familiar with these spesific models of bike, as the issue is figuring out how the motor connects to the controller; something which is unfortunately ommitted from the actual service manual itself.

If the only ring terminals in use are those on the motor and on the battery, then it sounds like something is missing from the bike, perhaps a terminal block.

I'm pretty sure everything is here, as i've only taken it apart in my kitchen to fix some damages, and then gotten it partially re-assembled here. There's no extra terminal block; the only terminal block on the bike that accepts ring terminals as far as I can tell is the part that connects directly to the battery leads, and it wouldn't make sense to connect them there as that'd just give the motor full power, so i'm at a loss.
I can't remember how it was all hooked up before (and it did work before I moved here), so I can't figure out how the motor terminals terminate to interface with the controller, which doesn't seem to have any straightforward way to connect them.

I would expect that they would all go back the same way you disconnected them before doing the rewiring, if you are using the same parts, so you should be able to reference your before pictures with the present state of things to help figure it out. If you didn't take any before pics or make any notes as you disconnected things, it's possible that there are useful reference pics in some of the EVG threads around here (but most of the threads are pretty old and pics may not have been locally hosted, and so may be gone).

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any wiring pictures or examples of the insides of any other EVG bikes, which sucks because all the electronics are hiding inside a plastic body that's bolted onto the bike, so I can't find any good examples of the bike. That's why i'm hoping for someone with experience with them.

It's been ages since I have seen EVG parts in person; somewhere here I might still have the semi-triangular main box with the boards in it, and possibly some of the handlebar controls, but I don't know where they would be. If necessary I can try to find them to take pics for reference, but I don't have the wiring harness, motor, etc.

If you could figure out how it outputs to the motor that'd be great, because that's all i'm stumped with. Going clockwise the hookups on the controller are as follows: battery positive, battery negative, motor temp sensor port, front light port, rear light port, break ports, instruments port (for controlling lights and power mode).

Everything is connected, and there's no ports left, so i'm at a loss as to where the motor is supposed to connect.

If there isn't any useful stuff in those, then some questions that may help us help you get it working again:

Did it work properly before the move?

What, exactly, specifically, and precisely, happened to it between the time it worked and the time it didn't? This will help us figure out what might be wrong, or missing, that was keeping it from working before it's present state of reassembly.

Which specific exact things have been disconnected, wire by wire, including but not limited to what is listed in your original post? Not just the ones you still need to reconnect, but *everything* that was disconnected. This will help us build a list of connections to be made, so you don't have any leftover stuff when you're done.

It worked before I moved, but when my buddy brought it here it was covered with a tarp in the back of his truck. Somewhere along the two state trip the tarp exploded into a million death strands at high speed and wrapped the bike. This bonding got a ton of those little fibers stuck in weird places, broke the thumb part off of the throttle (but didn't actually break the electronics), broke both the hand breaks (by squeezing them too tight and snapping them).

Luckily I don't think the controller was broken, but I thought it was at first because the batter is completely ruined (I think???), so i'm testing everything using a bench top variable power supply.

I unfortunately disconnected everything in an attempt to clean and test everything, but not I can't figure out how some of it goes back together XD

I'll submit those pictures in a new post below

 

[Cosmic]

https://www.imgur.com/a/CjadQZ2

Here are pics of the bike. They show the terminal block for the battery, the motor wires, and the controller in a poplulated and unpopulated state.

Edit: I should also clarify that I have jumpers on the handbreak ones for now, because While I do have new hand breaks, it's easier to just jumper the ports for testing.

 

[amberwolf]

I'll see if I can find the controller box around here and open it up to see if there's anywhere in there you could hook them up.

 

[Cosmic]

I'll see if I can find the controller box around here and open it up to see if there's anywhere in there you could hook them up.

I know there's no internal place to connect the termnials, because I only opened the controller after taking all the way out of the bike, so I know it doesn't need some internal connection to the motor.
That being said, I did open it, so I know for sure there's no terminals inside it. I don't know what revisions EVG might've made to it, but the version I have has 4 slots inside that are friction fit slots for add-on boards (kinda like computer ram). There's 3 boards inside, and I haven't messed with them besides visually inspecting them for damage (blown caps, any burn marks on the boards that show components fryed, ect), and it looks to be okay.

I'd still appreciate if you'd see if there's something i'd missed however! And there was one curious thing where there was nothing in the bottom-most slot. It's not like I lost anything, there simply wasn't anything in there, and it looks like a card couldn't fit in it with the way these 3 resistors are kinda daisy chained next to it. I dunno if it would've been used in other models or what, but my bike certainly worked before without it, so I dunno what it is.

 

[amberwolf]

I'll post some pics in a second, but I tried my best to explain everything.

Unfortunately, sometimes words just aren't enough (so I am told by many people when I give thorough explanations of testing procedures, etc., rather than a video :/ ).

And sometimes a pic helps because someone else can see something in the image that the person taking the pic didn't.

Sometimes it just takes a pic to jog the memory, too.

how the motor connects to the controller; something which is unfortunately ommitted from the actual service manual itself.

This one?
https://electricbikereview.com/wp-content/uploads/24-volt-ebike-service-manual.pdf
View attachment 24-volt-ebike-service-manual.pdf

If so, page 8-4 lists this for the motor ground wire (blue):

4A. On early-production models, be sure the
blue motor ground wire from the motor harness
is installed under the rear controller-mounting
screw (B, Figure 4).
4B. On later-production models, use the
ground screw to secure the blue ground wire to
the controller heat sink. This screw mounts to
the threaded hole above the rear controller
mounting screw (B, Figure 4).

There will probably be a mark similar to the ring terminal around one of the screws; that is likely the one the blue wire goes to. If you can't tell which one, there should be a way to tell with a multimeter set to ohms; we'll worry about that if you get there.

There are other notes about some washers that are very important to mounting certain screws, so you'll need to check which are applicable to your version of the bike.

And the schematic on the last page shows the motor red wire goes to the battery red terminal (so it should screw down to the same post the red battery and controller wires do).

This would work because the controller just grounds the motor thru the FETs inside whenever it activates it. (it "grounds it harder" for more motor power at higher throttle positions, to put it simply; the reality is a bit more complex).

It worked before I moved, but when my buddy brought it here it was covered with a tarp in the back of his truck. Somewhere along the two state trip the tarp exploded into a million death strands at high speed and wrapped the bike. This bonding got a ton of those little fibers stuck in weird places, broke the thumb part off of the throttle (but didn't actually break the electronics), broke both the hand breaks (by squeezing them too tight and snapping them).

Luckily I don't think the controller was broken, but I thought it was at first because the batter is completely ruined (I think???), so i'm testing everything using a bench top variable power supply.

OUch. The battery should be fine, even if it got wet they're sealed lead acid (SLA) unless you've replaced it with something else. The charger that's built into the casing might be damaged by water, etc., but the actual batteries ought to be fine.

If they sat uncharged for any length of time, or are just old, then they probably need to be replaced just because SLA don't handle those well.

The throttle you can repair, but simply gluing the tab back on probably won't work. I recall something about those plastics on there being different from the typical styrenes used on other ebike stuff. Epoxy may also not hold it well. Any glue that can actually dissolve / melt that plastic should work, but it will usually need some days to cure. Plastruct brand glue, and similar ones, will dissolve styrenes. Xylene and Toluene (separately or mixed in various proportions) will dissolve others.

Sometimes it takes multiple applications of the glue to each surface, before putting them against each other, just a drop at a time, until you can take a pin or needle and "stir" the surface of the break to a fair depth, perhaps half a millimeter. If you have ot soften it that far, it's definitely going to take days to evaporate the solvents back out and harden the new joint, so you may have to setup a support fixture to ensure the parts stay where you want them during that time.

Once it's glued on, you can also use some epoxys to build "filler" gussets from teh tab to the body, to help reduce the stress on that joint during use.

If you have to replace the throttle, then AFAICR it is a potentiometer type, not a hall type. You would want to measure the resistance across the two outer wires to be sure you get a similar one, but typically they are in the 5kohm to 10kohm range. I don't know if I still have an EVG throttle or not.

 

[Cosmic]

I'll post some pics in a second, but I tried my best to explain everything.

Unfortunately, sometimes words just aren't enough (so I am told by many people when I give thorough explanations of testing procedures, etc., rather than a video :/ ).

And sometimes a pic helps because someone else can see something in the image that the person taking the pic didn't.

Sometimes it just takes a pic to jog the memory, too.

how the motor connects to the controller; something which is unfortunately ommitted from the actual service manual itself.

This one?
https://electricbikereview.com/wp-content/uploads/24-volt-ebike-service-manual.pdf
24-volt-ebike-service-manual.pdf

If so, page 8-4 lists this for the motor ground wire (blue):

4A. On early-production models, be sure the
blue motor ground wire from the motor harness
is installed under the rear controller-mounting
screw (B, Figure 4).
4B. On later-production models, use the
ground screw to secure the blue ground wire to
the controller heat sink. This screw mounts to
the threaded hole above the rear controller
mounting screw (B, Figure 4).

There will probably be a mark similar to the ring terminal around one of the screws; that is likely the one the blue wire goes to. If you can't tell which one, there should be a way to tell with a multimeter set to ohms; we'll worry about that if you get there.

There are other notes about some washers that are very important to mounting certain screws, so you'll need to check which are applicable to your version of the bike.

And the schematic on the last page shows the motor red wire goes to the battery red terminal (so it should screw down to the same post the red battery and controller wires do).

This would work because the controller just grounds the motor thru the FETs inside whenever it activates it. (it "grounds it harder" for more motor power at higher throttle positions, to put it simply; the reality is a bit more complex).

You're an absolute lifesaver, I completely missed that key part about the grounding, and I must've read over it over a dozen times out of confusion.

I had no idea you could do that, with the grounding of the FETs on the negative side and all that. I like to think I'm at least somewhat competent when it comes to basic electronics, but I never got a proper education on the subject.

I'm gonna try hooking everything up and see if it all works.
Fingers crossed!

And as for the throttle, I already glued it long ago.
I've unfortunately had this old bike sitting in a closet for almost two years since I moved here, but I have an unfortunate need to fix it now that my car was destroyed in an accident.

I think the SLEDS might need replacing as I don't think they hold a charge, but I'll try overnight and see how it goes.

 

[amberwolf]

I had no idea you could do that, with the grounding of the FETs on the negative side and all that. I like to think I'm at least somewhat competent when it comes to basic electronics, but I never got a proper education on the subject.

There is a website http://allaboutelectronics.com that has "courses" and tutorials from basic to advanced for each type of electronics, if you are interested in learning more on your own terms.

FWIW, the simple unidirectional brushed motor controllers like the EVG has typically use the FETs as grounding switches to turn on the motor, where the motor already has power applied to one side. Sometimes called HalfBridge, because they only bridge to ground. The throttle controls the amount of time the ground is applied (via PWM, pulse width modulation) to the motor, and hence the speed of the motor. You can use as few as a single FET to make this type of controller.

Reversible brushed motor controllers use a full bridge, or H Bridge, which takes sets of four FETs to build, in two pairs. This one is more complicated but not a lot, but it does have specific places to connect the two motor wires.

Brushless motor controllers are a lot more complicated.

I've unfortunately had this old bike sitting in a closet for almost two years since I moved here, but I have an unfortunate need to fix it now that my car was destroyed in an accident.

The good news is these particular bikes are pretty simple, and if you really had to you could use it without a controller, just using a big switch to turn the motor on and off (it's not very graceful....but it works :lol: ).

I think the SLEDS might need replacing as I don't think they hold a charge, but I'll try overnight and see how it goes.

If the SLA batteries sat unused for a couple years, then they probably do need to be replaced. At best they probably won't perform very well or have nearly the range they should. There are threads in those links I gave that show how to replace with a different battery, if you like.

 

[Cosmic]

Okay, so I'm pretty sure I've got everything hooked up right, but its still not working.
I think the controller might just be dead :c
I have another 24v controller, but it's not stock so I'd loose the horn, lights, and anything else the stock one runs.

I have all the connectors in the right spots, and the blue motor wire grounded to the aluminum fin where it shows in the diagram, and the red wire connected to the positive power lead, and this is what I'm getting with it hooked up to my power supply:

Yellow light comes on on the panel with the lights option, but toggling it does not turn on the rear light (I don't have a front light, not sure if that matters, but overall the bike use to operate without a front light, so I doubt it's that big a deal.)

I can hear what sounds like a relay toggling in the controller box when I flip the power on and off, but nothing else happens. Turning the throttle does nothing, and nothing is getting the motor to spin (and I know the motor works fine because I already tested it).

I'm running my supply at exactly 24.0 volts, and it's drawing .13 A when it's off, and .19 A when it's on.
Not sure what the values are supposed to be, but I figure it's useful info.

 

[Cosmic]

Here's a pic. My bf is helping me by holding the throttle all the way turned with it on, and holding the negative probe in place while I hold the positive probe and operate the camera.
As you can see it's drawing some power, but none can be measured where the motor needs it.
Edit: forgot to mention that both horns and tail light aren't working either, but light indicating power is on works.

Edit 2: oh yeah, the fixed plastic lever on the throttle snapped off again too :c

 

[Cosmic]

Thinking through it today, and I was wondering what the odds are that the temp sensor is broken or something?
I doubt it'd explain the horn or lights, but it might explain the motor?
I honestly just don't know if the behavior of the click sound (relay?) inside the controller is normal. It automatically happens when I turn it on. And is it normal for it to pull the amps it is when it's off like I described? Maybe I screwed something up there?

 

[Chalo]

Fault check the motor by hooking it directly to a 12V battery. Have the wheel attached in the bike so the reaction torque doesn't spin the axle around and destroy the cable. Plug wires into the connector before touching them to the battery, because there will be a spark.

If the motor whirs in one polarity and spins the wheel in the other polarity, it's working. In that case you can cast suspicion on the motor or the throttle.

 

[Cosmic]

Fault check the motor by hooking it directly to a 12V battery. Have the wheel attached in the bike so the reaction torque doesn't spin the axle around and destroy the cable. Plug wires into the connector before touching them to the battery, because there will be a spark.

If the motor whirs in one polarity and spins the wheel in the other polarity, it's working. In that case you can cast suspicion on the motor or the throttle.

I've already tested the motor and horn directly via my bench top variable power supply. It's definitely something with the controller (I think???)

Right now I've got my bike upside down in my kitchen, so tested the motor by disconnecting the quick connects to the motor in the junction box and supplying power there, bypassing the controller.
I'm using a power supply to isolate any issues to the main bike ad I'm pretty sure my SLEDS are dead anyways.
Horn spooked me pretty good, but it works.

 

[amberwolf]

Okay, so I'm pretty sure I've got everything hooked up right, but its still not working.
I think the controller might just be dead :c

There are some tests you can do if we need to; I'll describe them if we get that far.

Yellow light comes on on the panel with the lights option, but toggling it does not turn on the rear light (I don't have a front light, not sure if that matters, but overall the bike use to operate without a front light, so I doubt it's that big a deal.)

If the rear light doesn't turn on, it's possible that there isnt' enough voltage (or current) from the power supply.

I'm running my supply at exactly 24.0 volts, and it's drawing .13 A when it's off, and .19 A when it's on.

A 24v SLA system should be about 26-28v during normal operation. 24v could be below the Low Voltage Cutoff for the system.

Each SLA would be about 13.6-14.4v at full charge depending on type, so try your PSU at 27.2-28.8v.

Also make sure the PSU can handle large current surges of many amps--if it can't, it may shutdown at least momentarily (too fast for you to see, possibly) when the controller tries to power the motor at all, and then the controller will shutdown and then the PSU voltage rises again but the controller may stay shutdown until it is power cycled, for safety (some do, some don't).

 

[amberwolf]

Thinking through it today, and I was wondering what the odds are that the temp sensor is broken or something?

They usually are resistive, and commonly measure a few kohms to a few dozen kohms, depending on type. Easy to test with the multimeter on 200kohms. If it reads OL it's open- circuit (broken connection). Otherwise it shoudl change resistance with temperature.

 

[amberwolf]

I think the controller might just be dead :c

First, test the throttle; easiest to do this where it plugs into the board. Meter set to 20VDC. Meter Black lead to battery negative. Meter red lead to whcihever wire on the throttle isn't black or red, if it's three wires (like red, black, white, or red, black, green, etc).

There should be close to 0V on the signal wire until you turn the throttle, then it will vary up to near 5v the farther you turn it. If this doesn't happen, the throttle or a wire to it may be broken.

First check that there is 5v on the red wire to the throttle, first at the board. If there is, then check it at the throttle itself. If there is, then check the signal wire for the throttle at the throttle itself. The black, ground, wire would probaably make the systtem go full throttle all the time if it were broken, unless they actualy put a safety cutoff in the system (not common) so it's not likely to be bad.

If you can't test inside the throttle, or would like a nother test, then if it's a resistive throttle (likely) unplug it from the conttroller, and with the meter on 20Kohm put one meter lead on one "outside" wire of the plug, then the other lead on the other outside wire, nothing on center wire. If you read a resistance (5-10kohm typically) that doesn't change with throttle movement, thats' normal. Move one lead (either one) to the center wire, and retest. The ohms should change as you turn throttle. Doesn't matter which way, as long as they change. If this works, throtle is good and so is cable from it to controller.

If it's a hall throttle taht test won't work; it has to be powered to test it, via voltage, like the first test does.

 

[amberwolf]

I think the controller might just be dead :c

Controllers have a few "interlocks" that have to be right for them to work.

The first is the LVC, described in a previous post.

The second is the KSI, or Keyswitch / Ignition. This doesn't supply power to the controller to operate, but it typically uses full battery voltage from the battery positive to one side of a keyswitch or other ignition or power switch, then back to the controller via a thinner wire than the main battery. Some use a 5v signal instead, but that's fairly rare. Some don't have this function at all, and are just always on whenever the battery is connected.

The third (when implemented) is a "throttle high at power on", which disables the controller if the throttle was already at or above max throttle input when it was turned on. Most don't check for this.

The fourth is ebrakes. Some of them operate by shorting the two wires from the controller to stop it, and some open the wires to stop it.There's usually a button inside the part where the lever would have rested when not braking, and you can press that to turn the brakes *off* (the lever would keep ti pressed when not braking). Some require BOTH levers to be connected, but most only need one. Some will work with no levers connected, and some require they be connected *and off* to operate. You can test your original levers to find out which it is (or just use them and manually hold the buttons down inside them). If your system doesn't work with the levers not connnected, try hooking them both up normally and hold both buttons down inside them. (some use magnetic switches, and have a magnet on the lever--for those you'll have to use a separate magnet if your levers are broken off).


If the throttle signal is ok, and the voltage from the PSU is 26-28vdc, as measured at the controller power pins (where the spade lugs connect from the battery), then it could be that KSI signal missing. Since you hear a relay click, it's probably not that, because the KSI may be used to turn that relay on.

Ebrakes are usually just a switch, and you can test them with the meter set to 20kohm, and when the brakes aren't plugged into the controller, one meter lead on each pin should read OL when the switch is open, and very very low ohms when the switch is closed. Whether open means brake engaged, or not, depends on the controller design, but most commonly open means brake not pulled (and so leaving the brakes disconnected will let the controller work).

If everythign else is ok, then you can do a partial controller test like this: set the meter to 200vdc and put the black lead on the motor blue wire where it connects to the controller, and the red lead on the motor/battery red wire. While turning the throttle you should see a changing voltage here.

If you don't, then you can disconnect power from the controller and check the FETs but we'll hold off on that till you get results from these other tests.

 

[Cosmic]

Thinking through it today, and I was wondering what the odds are that the temp sensor is broken or something?

They usually are resistive, and commonly measure a few kohms to a few dozen kohms, depending on type. Easy to test with the multimeter on 200kohms. If it reads OL it's open- circuit (broken connection). Otherwise it shoudl change resistance with temperature.

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions! I really appreciate you taking the time.
I just got off work, so I'm going through as many of the steps as I can before I have to go to sleep.

I started by testing the motor temp sensor, and I think it's good, or at least It passed a continuity test, so I know it's not open. I wasn't getting any useful readings at 200k ohm, but at 200 ohm I was getting rougly between .5 to 1.5
No idea what it's supposed to be, but it's not open. What should I do if those values are a bad sign? I think I might have a spare 3d printer temp sensor somewhere, but I doubt it'd just so happen to be a good replacement.

For now I'll move on through the other tests you listed and report back.

Edit: I've now also verified that the tail lights are good too. Figured out the polarity, hooked them up, and they lit up a nice bright red!

 

[Cosmic]

I think the controller might just be dead :c

First, test the throttle; easiest to do this where it plugs into the board. Meter set to 20VDC. Meter Black lead to battery negative. Meter red lead to whcihever wire on the throttle isn't black or red, if it's three wires (like red, black, white, or red, black, green, etc).

There should be close to 0V on the signal wire until you turn the throttle, then it will vary up to near 5v the farther you turn it. If this doesn't happen, the throttle or a wire to it may be broken.

First check that there is 5v on the red wire to the throttle, first at the board. If there is, then check it at the throttle itself. If there is, then check the signal wire for the throttle at the throttle itself. The black, ground, wire would probaably make the systtem go full throttle all the time if it were broken, unless they actualy put a safety cutoff in the system (not common) so it's not likely to be bad.

If you can't test inside the throttle, or would like a nother test, then if it's a resistive throttle (likely) unplug it from the conttroller, and with the meter on 20Kohm put one meter lead on one "outside" wire of the plug, then the other lead on the other outside wire, nothing on center wire. If you read a resistance (5-10kohm typically) that doesn't change with throttle movement, thats' normal. Move one lead (either one) to the center wire, and retest. The ohms should change as you turn throttle. Doesn't matter which way, as long as they change. If this works, throtle is good and so is cable from it to controller.

If it's a hall throttle taht test won't work; it has to be powered to test it, via voltage, like the first test does.

Okay, I got to testing the throttle, which was a bit of a PITA because I had to take apart the throttle assembly to more easily get at the contacts.
Testing revealed it is getting about 6v on the red lead, and turning it brings the brown lead smoothly from 0-6v.
So I think the pot is good! I'm not really sure what you're talking about with the negative lead, but It might just be going over my head because i've been up for a while, and should probably get some sleep soon.
I sat there for a good full minute wondering why the brown lead was initially at 5v instead of zero when I hadn't even turned it, and then I felt like a idiot when I realized the resetting is done by a spring mechanism in the housing, and I just needed to turn the pot by hand. I was expecting it to already be turned to zero, lol.

 

[Cosmic]

Controllers have a few "interlocks" that have to be right for them to work.

The first is the LVC, described in a previous post.

The second is the KSI, or Keyswitch / Ignition. This doesn't supply power to the controller to operate, but it typically uses full battery voltage from the battery positive to one side of a keyswitch or other ignition or power switch, then back to the controller via a thinner wire than the main battery. Some use a 5v signal instead, but that's fairly rare. Some don't have this function at all, and are just always on whenever the battery is connected.

My bike doesn't have a literal keyed switch, it just has a power nob with an on and off position. I could open the housing if needed, but I'm assuming it's good since the light in the light control housing powers up yellow, the throttle is getting 6v like you said it should, and the amperage used does go up a bit when I turn it on. But that's a lot of assuming on my end, and well, we all know what they say about assuming.

The third (when implemented) is a "throttle high at power on", which disables the controller if the throttle was already at or above max throttle input when it was turned on. Most don't check for this.

The fourth is ebrakes. Some of them operate by shorting the two wires from the controller to stop it, and some open the wires to stop it.There's usually a button inside the part where the lever would have rested when not braking, and you can press that to turn the brakes *off* (the lever would keep ti pressed when not braking). Some require BOTH levers to be connected, but most only need one. Some will work with no levers connected, and some require they be connected *and off* to operate. You can test your original levers to find out which it is (or just use them and manually hold the buttons down inside them). If your system doesn't work with the levers not connnected, try hooking them both up normally and hold both buttons down inside them. (some use magnetic switches, and have a magnet on the lever--for those you'll have to use a separate magnet if your levers are broken off).

My old breaks were something that broke in the move, so I've since gotten new ones. The old ones were magnetic switches, but these new ones are mechanical button switches. In any case, to exclude them from testing (assuming it's just a matter of if they're open or closed as far as I can tell) I've been conducting all my tests independently with both the brake pins both jumpered and with them both open to test all variables on open and closed brakes, and it hasn't really done anything noticeable.

If the throttle signal is ok, and the voltage from the PSU is 26-28vdc, as measured at the controller power pins (where the spade lugs connect from the battery), then it could be that KSI signal missing. Since you hear a relay click, it's probably not that, because the KSI may be used to turn that relay on.

Ebrakes are usually just a switch, and you can test them with the meter set to 20kohm, and when the brakes aren't plugged into the controller, one meter lead on each pin should read OL when the switch is open, and very very low ohms when the switch is closed. Whether open means brake engaged, or not, depends on the controller design, but most commonly open means brake not pulled (and so leaving the brakes disconnected will let the controller work).

If everythign else is ok, then you can do a partial controller test like this: set the meter to 200vdc and put the black lead on the motor blue wire where it connects to the controller, and the red lead on the motor/battery red wire. While turning the throttle you should see a changing voltage here.

If you don't, then you can disconnect power from the controller and check the FETs but we'll hold off on that till you get results from these other tests.

The test you described, checking between the FET grounding on the controller (the part where it says to connect the blue wire on the diagram in the service manual), and the power lead; was the one I did in the photo above, and I didn't get anything when I turned the throttle.

(edited for clarity on the brakes part)

 

[Cosmic]

And what about the lights and the horn? If the motor problem is a thing with the FET's, could it effect those too?
Is there any way I could easily verify or test the daughter boards inside? Theres's 3 inside, and when I visually inspected them I didn't see any charring, fluids, or other grime that might indicate blown or burnt out parts.
Should I try testing cap values, or any other particular parts? I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to electronics, but I know a bit. I've done a lot of soldering and reflow work, including some board assembly which included BGA's, so I'm not really afraid of any tricky soldering needed for replacements as long as I understand what i'm doing, what to look for, ect. I already had to resolder on the power leads for the spade connectors, as the spades got stuck on and tore the poor guys off, but luckily it was a nice snap that didn't damage the traces and I got them back on, and cleaned up the board a bit with some iso while I was at it. I was actually kinda surprised at how simple the electronics looked, but the board was dated with 1998. It kind reminded me of some sony walkmans i've recapped.

Edit: actually, it kinda reminds me more of early computer add on cards. The modules slot in just like an ISA card.

 

[amberwolf]

Testing revealed it is getting about 6v on the red lead, and turning it brings the brown lead smoothly from 0-6v.

Just an aside, but if you're reading 6v, and it's likely that it is a 5v system, the battery on your meter may be low. Replacing it (usually the rectangular 9v type) should fix that.

It could actually be a 6v system rather than 5v, it's just not common.

I sat there for a good full minute wondering why the brown lead was initially at 5v instead of zero when I hadn't even turned it, and then I felt like a idiot when I realized the resetting is done by a spring mechanism in the housing, and I just needed to turn the pot by hand. I was expecting it to already be turned to zero, lol.

If you read 5v to start with on the signal wire, it probably means that the wire colors on it don't correspond to the "usual", and you've got the red meter lead on the 5v line, and the black lead on the signal line. This will give you a high voltage at zero throttle, and a low voltage at full throttle. It doesn't matter, because as long as it is changing while turning, it's working.

It could also be just designed "backwards" from most systems, and actually work that way--but I haven't ever run into a controller like that.

 

[amberwolf]

And what about the lights and the horn? If the motor problem is a thing with the FET's, could it effect those too?

No, but as I noted in another post, if you aren't using a high enough voltage (26-28v) on your power supply, the controller could disable itself from the LVC cutout (intended to protect the battery from overdischarge).

There is most likely some interlock that is not allowing the controller to let the system work, since none of it is working, but you have a light on a control indicator, meaning it is getting "power" enough to light that up.

Is there any way I could easily verify or test the daughter boards inside? Theres's 3 inside, and when I visually inspected them I didn't see any charring, fluids, or other grime that might indicate blown or burnt out parts.

You can test parts, but without knowing the specific design, I couldn't tell you which ones are more likely to cause a failure.

The most likely failures are the ones already noted--the controller interlocks (brake, LVC, KSI, stuck throttle, etc) are the most likely, simply because of things having been disconnected and reconnected.

The LVC is still a suspect, until you try it at 26-28vdc rather than only 24v.

Should I try testing cap values, or any other particular parts? I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to electronics, but I know a bit. I've done a lot of soldering and reflow work, including some board assembly which included BGA's, so I'm not really afraid of any tricky soldering needed for replacements as long as I understand what i'm doing, what to look for, ect.

I would not worry about testing parts without a better idea of which ones might cause the failure (and first finding out which failure it is). Most of the component testing you can do would require taking each part off the board to do the test, because you won't get a useful reading for most of them with them in parallel with other parts of the circuit.

The design is pretty simple, but most brushed controllers are (or can be) very very simple. If you're interested, 4qd.co.uk has some pages about how BCs work that include schematics and details of what is happening in different parts of the controller in diffferent modes of operation. There are at least three different kinds of brushed controller; unidirectional (1quadrant) bidirectional (2quadrant) and the 4quadrant that also does regenerative braking, etc. What you have is a "1qd" in their terms--very simple.

THe schematics in the manual for yours show how it works, with some understanding of how the individual parts work. I haven't gone thru them in detail yet, just enough to find that motor connection before.