Need help choosing best motor/ctlr/batt configuration

[michaelP]

I’m want to buy a specific eScooter model (M1P CitiCoco chopper) that is manufactured with a variety of motor, controller, and battery specs combinations. I ride on mostly flats and want the config that provides highest top speed (ideally ~ 45mph/72kph). Motors offered are 60v/2000W, 2500W, 3000W. Ctlrs range from 60v/45A to 80A. Batteries are either 60v/20Ah or 30Ah. Motors are made by QS Motor Co. based in China.

I’ve read several bat/ctlr/hub motor opinions on internet and this forum. But some opinions seem to conflict. I’m trying to decide on best config (bat-ctlr-motor) for top speed along with motor/battery longevity and performance. My priorities are ranked in preference as Speed first, range distance second,, and acceleration last. I prefer 45mph for road use, and range distance around 30-40 miles per full charge. I weight 170 lbs/77kg. Scooter weighs 200 lbs. Negligible wind on flats.

My confusion/indecision is based on compatibility between bat/ctlr/motor for best speed and longevity of motor/bat. Most of the motors for this model are geared, not DD, which doesn’t help top speed much when ramping up amperage (I think??)

Am I correct in assuming:
1. all three should be rated at 60 volts.
2. Battery choice with highest Ah/wattage.
3. Ctlr amps-out should be at or slightly less than motor’s max capacity rating.
4. Not sure if ctlr should be square or sine.
5. Not sure if I should be concerned about ctlr’s number of MOSFETs (6,12,18,24, etc)
6. Some say the ctlr amp max should be less than the battery amps output; while others say ctlr’s max amps out doesn’t matter, since motor will restrict only the amps it can handle under load. While others warn that too much amperage from ctlr will heat-up motor and burnout.

So I would greatly appreciate suggestions for best amp/watt compatibility with all three at 60 volts; and for highest top speed and longer range distance per charge.

 

[ZeroEm]

by michaelP » Jan 09 2023 2:44pm

I’m want to buy a specific eScooter model (M1P CitiCoco chopper) that is manufactured with a variety of motor, controller, and battery specs combinations. I ride on mostly flats and want the config that provides highest top speed (ideally ~ 45mph/72kph). Motors offered are 60v/2000W, 2500W, 3000W. Ctlrs range from 60v/45A to 80A. Batteries are either 60v/20Ah or 30Ah. Motors are made by QS Motor Co. based in China.

I’ve read several bat/ctlr/hub motor opinions on internet and this forum. But some opinions seem to conflict. I’m trying to decide on best config (bat-ctlr-motor) for top speed along with motor/battery longevity and performance. My priorities are ranked in preference as Speed first, range distance second,, and acceleration last. I prefer 45mph for road use, and range distance around 30-40 miles per full charge. I weight 170 lbs/77kg. Scooter weighs 200 lbs. Negligible wind on flats.

My confusion/indecision is based on compatibility between bat/ctlr/motor for best speed and longevity of motor/bat. Most of the motors for this model are geared, not DD, which doesn’t help top speed much when ramping up amperage (I think??)

Am I correct in assuming:
1. all three should be rated at 60 volts.
2. Battery choice with highest Ah/wattage.
3. Ctlr amps-out should be at or slightly less than motor’s max capacity rating.
4. Not sure if ctlr should be square or sine.
5. Not sure if I should be concerned about ctlr’s number of MOSFETs (6,12,18,24, etc)
6. Some say the ctlr amp max should be less than the battery amps output; while others say ctlr’s max amps out doesn’t matter, since motor will restrict only the amps it can handle under load. While others warn that too much amperage from ctlr will heat-up motor and burnout. Short burst of high amps is not bad, it's the long hills or high speed that keeps the amps up.



So I would greatly appreciate suggestions for best amp/watt compatibility with all three at 60 volts; and for highest top speed and longer range distance per charge.

QS260 7.5”x12inch E-Scooter Hub Motor(35H) 2000W

This may not be the motor but looks close, see the picture of the scooter.
Motor Specification:

Motor Type: BLDC Hub Motor with Permanent Magnet
Motor design: Double axle out with 13inch rim
Rim size:7.5×12
Matching Tire:/
Magnet:35H
of Pole Pairs: 23 pairs
Rated Power: 2000W
Max Power:3000W
Rated Voltage: 48V( 60V/72V Can be optional)
Speed: 45km/h (30-65km/h can be customized)
Max No-load RPM: 750RPM
Max Torque: 160N.M
Max Efficiency: 86%
Continious current:45A
Max current:60A
Brake type: Disc brake
Rear Fork width for installation: 200mm
Winding Core material: Iron
Cross Section of Phase wire: 8 mm2
Hall sensor phasing angle: 120 degree
Temperature Sensor: Optional
Working Temperature: 70 degree, Peak 120 degree
Waterproof Grade: IP54
W./ G..W. : 21kgs / 22kgs
Package Size: 44*43*41CM

Battery looks generic 60v with specs like,

Specification:

Charging voltage: 67.2v
Rated Voltage : 60v
Battery pack weight : About 8.5-12kg
Input: 110V-240V
Capacity: Upgraded 20Ah to 40ah
Discharging current : 20A to 40ah
Battery type: Rechargeable lithium ion battery.
Output voltage: 40-67.2v DC
Charging current: 5A
Charging current : standard 5A , max 8.5A
Product life: Cycle life More than 1000 times, DOD at 80%
Charging Temperature: 0~45C
Discharging temperature: -20~60C
Storage temperature: -20~45C

Am I correct in assuming:
1. all three should be rated at 60 volts.

yes!

2. Battery choice with highest Ah/wattage.

you might get 40 miles with the 30ah if you stay below 20mph.

3. Ctlr amps-out should be at or slightly less than motor’s max capacity rating.

Should at least match motors max current. 60a, best not to keep controller max out, they get hot too.

4. Not sure if ctlr should be square or sine.

Sine is quite and more efficient.

5. Not sure if I should be concerned about ctlr’s number of MOSFETs (6,12,18,24, etc)

MOSFETs or FETs = how many amps the controller can do. Best to just order by rated amps.

6. Some say the ctlr amp max should be less than the battery amps output; while others say ctlr’s max amps out doesn’t matter, since motor will restrict only the amps it can handle under load. While others warn that too much amperage from ctlr will heat-up motor and burnout.

Motors will suck all they can until melt down of the wires or burn up the winding. To know what a motor can handle is to monitor the winding temperature. (No simple answer to this one) You can feed lower amps into a stalled or lugging motor and it will over heat.

 

[ZeroEm]

by michaelP » Jan 09 2023 2:44pm
My confusion/indecision is based on compatibility between bat/ctlr/motor for best speed and longevity of motor/bat. Most of the motors for this model are geared, not DD, which doesn’t help top speed much when ramping up amperage (I think??)

My view: indecision is normal, it all about the math and what you want. Most of it is cost! The battery looks like the weak link, would find out what the continuous and peak discharge amps are. No point in getting a high amp controller if the battery can not handle it unless you plan on upgrading the battery after you kill it, even the 30ah looks to have continuous amps at 40. The other is finding out what kv the motor is (Looks like a good motor) the standard looks to be around 28mph/45kph.

Amps will not up the speed unless you don't have enough to start with. Volts get you speed and amps power. Motors are rated at how many turns they make per volt (Kv). If a motor is free wheeling off the ground it does not take many amps to spin it, if its pushing you up a hill it takes a lot more amps to spin.

M1P CityCoco chopper is in the moped group and expected to ride around 25-35mph. I would want at least a 60a controller and 65km version of the motor. That is 40mph. Later you and build or buy a 72v battery which might get you to 45mph. The motor and controller should both handle 72v.

 

[michaelP]

THANK YOU!!! ZeroEM. You are correct... Spot on! I found this QS260 2000W you mentioned in the QS Motor catalog, and it is in fact the one used on the M1P which I plan to buy. And thank you for your detailed answers to each of my questions, and your extra advice/comments. It was a big help, since I'm quite new to this electric vehicle game, so I have lots to learn from you guys. I'm glad I stumbled across this forum, with suspicions that there's a wealth of information and wisdom here. Thanks again! :thumb:

 

[michaelP]

......The other is finding out what kv the motor is ....

kV is: 9.28/8.0. Not sure if that's good or bad for this motor.

 

[amberwolf]

The http://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator may help show you the interactions between various parts of the system and the riding conditions, which may help you pick the parts you want. It is a bit complicated for your case since the parts you need aren't in the preset lists, so you would have to use the custom option at the bottom of each dropdown list to approximate the motor, controller, and battery you'd like to use...but you can first experiment with existing parts using your conditions/weight/etc to see how things interact. May take a little while to "get" how it works and what it is showing you, but it has instructions on the bottom of the page and there are some threads here on ES about it that may also help.

It's especially useful for determining how much power a system probably needs to achieve a goal under specific conditions, and about how much battery capacity you'll need under those conditions to get the range you need.

 

[michaelP]

Thanks amberwolf. I'll give it a try.

The above URL link didn't work (see attached)

This URL seems to work: https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

 

[amberwolf]

Ooops, i left off the .html.

 

[999zip999]

Where do you guys find a picture or link or the specs for the battery if they're using a qs motor maybe they're getting the controller from QS too ? Hopefully. How much is this scooter that'll tell us a little bit.

 

[999zip999]

Wow this is from January still a sexy scooter.

 

[calab]

Wow this is from January still a sexy scooter.

Yes, you'd be the stylish guy rocking the pathways with that beast of a ride. Hopefully the OP will come to their senses and slow down.