Need help identifying a brushless controller

[jerry12x]

Hiya, I have posted the same question on another forum and the recommendation is that I post it here.
I have acquired a Currie Meerkat Trailz 26" (womans bicycle)

Plugging a new fully charged battery pack, the power indicator on the bike lit the second from empty of 4 leds.(The power connector uses a 2v1h plug)
The bike ran happily for 200 yards, then a few cracks and nothing.
The empty led, 1 of 4 was lit.
I am assuming the controller is at fault and I am running into a problem replacing or substituting it.

The bike looks just like the TRAILZ ST LADIES here... http://www.pedalandpower.com/currie.htm

There is an on/off switch on the battery pack and no switch on the twist throttle. (TAG Throttle with 4 led Battery Gauge)
The controller physically looks like the Currie RMB Series.
The label on the controller has on it...

Currie Technologies.
DC Brushless motor controller.
Input voltage 24v.
Control voltage 1-4v
Output current 25A
Blueprint no. 140L
Make date 2008-02-26
S/N 0802B00070

It has 5 Wire connectors out to...
1) Battery (2 wire)
2) Motor (2 wire)(2 wire brushless motor???)
3) Brakes (2 wire)
4 & 5) Throttle with 4 led power indicator. One 3 pin & one 2 pin cable.

While Currie does a good job of web support, I am unable to find any mention of Meerkat, controllers or how to contact their tech support by email.
My hearing is shot and phone is not an option.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Regards, Jerry in Liverpool UK

 

[Drunkskunk]

Welcome to the forum.

If your Meercat has the motor located left and aft of the rear axle, then it's a brushed motor, not a brushless.

The problem you describe actually sounds like a battery issue. Before ordering a new controller, check your voltage at the plug and make sure you still have full voltage. If you do, check the plug to make sure it's clean. a dirty contact or flakey plug could cause this kind of problem, too.

If all that checks out, then it probably is the controller. There are cheap generic 24v controllers out there for brushed motors, Like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Motor-Contro...=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=Currie+meercat+controller You might have to experiment a bit and splice some plugs. Might even need a new 3 pin throttle. The advantage is it's disposably cheap. The cost of a good hamburger and a beer.

But if you want one that fits with no fuss, there are many options.
Here's a source. http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/s500controller.html
And another that might be free shipping if you're a prime user, and you could have it tomorrow.
https://www.amazon.com/Currie-Volt-Electric-Scooter-Controller/dp/B005CD21C0

 

[imsamib]

A brushless motor will have 3 phase wires, probably with insulated coating, and, possibly 5 smaller hall sensor wires to the motor.

 

[jerry12x]

Thank you so much for replying.
The batteries are brand new as the batteries when I bought it were 9 and 10 volts when charged. Also bulging in places.
It came with a 48v charger. The seller said he knew nothing.
The new batteries are spade connected and soldered. The meter reads 25v across the two.
The new 24v charger did not light the charging light when I charged them.
I assumed the batteries were fully charged on arrival.

I had always thought that brushless motors use more than two wires.
I find the brushless controller confusing.
I am new to electric bikes.

The drive is mounted above the axle.
I noticed Currie Electro Drive on the frame. Something I had not spotted before.

 

[jerry12x]

I purchased a brushless controller from this seller and am returning it for a refund today.

By extraordinary coincidence, I bought that same LB27 controller as a replacement.
It was not till I pulled the controller on the bike out and saw "Brushless" that the confusion started.
I had already swapped some connector and was scratching my head over the 3 & 2 wires to the throttle.

 

[jerry12x]

But if you want one that fits with no fuss, there are many options.
Here's a source. http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/s500controller.html

That, I had looked at and turned away from because it was brushed.
It has the correct connections except for the throttle.

 

[amberwolf]

The new batteries are spade connected and soldered. The meter reads 25v across the two.

28v would be full. 25v is getting closer to empty than half-full. (sounds wierd for "24v" system but that's how it works. )

Under load, when riding, they may not be able to operate the bike if they are too discharged--most controllers have an LVC to Cut off power when the Voltage drops too Low, and if the voltage sags too much on batteries it may trigger. Some will reset when powered off and back on, some reset immediately when load is removed and voltage comes back up.

The new 24v charger did not light the charging light when I charged them.

Sounds like the charger may not be working. What voltage does it put out when it is connected to the batteries? (should be slightly higher than batteries alone)

What voltage when it is not connected to htem, but is still plugged into the wall? (should be at least 28v, usually 29+).

What voltage are each of the batteries? (is one higher than the other?) Both when just sitting there, and when charger is hooked up.

I had always thought that brushless motors use more than two wires.

They do--they use at least three, for phase wires, and often have 5 more thin wires for the hall sensors (some are sensorless and don't use those).

Yours is brushed, no matter what the label says--the label is wrong.

 

[amberwolf]

4 & 5) Throttle with 4 led power indicator. One 3 pin & one 2 pin cable.

The 2pin is probably for the power indicator. The other three are for the throttle.

 

[jerry12x]

Sounds like the charger may not be working. What voltage does it put out when it is connected to the batteries? (should be slightly higher than batteries alone)
What voltage when it is not connected to htem, but is still plugged into the wall? (should be at least 28v, usually 29+).

I checked the voltages like you said and... Oh no!
Batteries are at +25.5v
Charger is at +27.3v Not connected to the batteries.
When the charger is connected to the battery pack it reads -25.5. (minus 25.5)
Swapped the wires from charger to batteries and I have +29.2 with the charging light on.
I am losing it. The voltage is higher when the charger is ON load. Never seen that before.
The charger when connected to the batteries in the wrong polarity obviously triggered a cut out.
Previously, the charger was cold. Now it is slightly warm. Getting warmer.

Drunkskunk did say it sounded like a battery problem.
You have just confirmed it.
All three of you guys have given fantastic information.
I will keep you updated.

 

[jerry12x]

Something is wrong.
After 25 minutes, the fully charged light is on.
The charger connected to the battery pack gives 26.9v
With that disconnected, the batteries give 26.5v
The charger on it's own now gives 27.3v
What is happening?

 

[amberwolf]

Something is wrong.
After 25 minutes, the fully charged light is on.
The charger connected to the battery pack gives 26.9v
With that disconnected, the batteries give 26.5v
The charger on it's own now gives 27.3v
What is happening?

29.xv is good; that's what the charger should put out when the pack is being charged--but normally, with celsl that are soaking up the current well, ou won't see it that high until it's near or at full charge, then it will drop after the charger shuts off (if it's a good one, it will do t hat; if not, it keeps putting current into full batteries which is what makes them swell up and die of heatstroke).

For the lower voltage afterward, charger probably has several stages it goes thru, since with SLA it will pur current in when they're pretty far dsicharged, then when they get full it can switch to float charge, which can be anywhere from 13.xV to 14.5V per battery, dpeending on what it is set to or designed for.

If it only took half an hour to recharge them, they would have to be pretty small capacity batteries. They may also not be as "new" as you'd like: SLA often sit on a shelf for years, in variouis states of charge, and they decay faster the lower that charge is. Sometimes you get lucky and they actually are "new" and/or wellcared for, but one reason I stopped using SLA is that getting good ones was tough around here, and the used ones I got out of deiscarded UPSand powerchair stuff were often about as good as the new ones. :/ (and were free instead of expensive)

(also, I lucked out in getting first NiMH and then LiFePO4 (first was stolen, second is still in use) and then Li-NMC (still using this one) packs , and some RC LiPo I used for a while).


Anyway, I jsut mean it's possible the new ones, while much better than the originals, may not give you a lot of power or range, or may even have something wrong with them.

it's a good thing it had polarity protection, though.

 

[jerry12x]

The batteries I got were ebay item 271399630938.
I may well make use of the years warranty.
I am aware that the Chinese are notoriously dishonest when it comes to power ratings.
I use the 18650 batteries in lighting and I get 10 times more power from an old 3500mah laptop battery than I do from one of their so called 10,000mah new ones.
Before that they were conning the world with fake USB memory sticks. They still are.

I have learnt quite a bit today.

 

[Hillhater]

Wishing you good luck for a warranty claim on a Chinese battery supplier !

 

[amberwolf]

Regarding 18650s, if it has "fire" in the name, it's garbage, as far as I've seen. Just look up 18650 here on ES and y ou'll find a lot of good cells and info.

Or Candlepower forums.

You can even build a bike pack out of 18650s, or buy one premade. Lots of info on that here, too.

 

[docw009]

Something you might try for testing purposes, if you can get a hold of two automotive 12 volt batteries and some jumper cables. Hook them up properly, and see if the motor runs with the wheel off the ground. Then you know the controller/motor work and whether you indeed have weak bike batteries.