Switching twist throttle to a thumb throttle: please help with different color wiring

[Planet Indigo]

My hub kit originally came with a twist throttle, it has an on/off button and a three color led charge indicator. It came with a 6 pin connector color coded black, red, white, yellow, brown, green, in that order. (Btw, shouldn't it be only 5 wires for those functions, I thought 6 wires were for one extra function like low/high gear or a horn?)

My replacement thumb throttle also has an on/off switch, and it has a 3 digits LED voltage screen. It has 5 wires, originally black, red, green in a 3 pin, then a blue female bullet connector and a yellow male bullet connector. I've changed the blue and yellow to a pin connector and I just need to assemble the pins back in a 6 pin connector (5 out of 6, one left empty)

How should I match my black, red, green, blue, yellow thumb throttle wires to my black, red, white, yellow, brown, green controller?
Please see included pics.

UPDATE:
Amberwolf, thanks a lot for all the help, I think I'm nearly there.
I found a way to insert the voltmeter probes while the old twist throttle is connected.
While it is connected:
When the twist throttle is on the OFF position: red, white, brown, green have 0V, yellow has 52V.
When the twist throttle is on the ON position: red has 4.3V, white has 0.8V, yellow, brown and green all have 52V.

It seems clear that red is the 5v positive, white is the throttle signal, and yellow sends the voltage to the thottle voltage led display. After that both brown and green seem to send back 52v to the controller to tell it that the throttle is ON, but I am clueless on which of the two (brown and green) my new throttle's blue wire is supposed to connect to. And also, is it safe to have the other one of the two have nothing connected to them? (after all my new throttle has 5 wires instead of the old one's 6).
Does anyone know which of the two I should connect my blue to, and if it's safe to have the other wire have nothing connected to it?

 

[amberwolf]

What is the switch on the old throttle wired to do?

What is the switch on the new throttle wired to do?

There are several possible ways they can be used, and the wiring and voltages present are not compatible. If for instance the new is setup to switch the throttle itself on and off it will be wired in series with one of the throttle wires (5v or signal), and say the old one is setup to switch the entire bike on and off, including the voltmeter (battery voltage)--if you connect up the new one the same way, the battery voltage will be fed to the throttle and possibly the controller's MCU, and destroy the controller and the throttle. So if they're wired differently, you either have to open the new one up to change the wiring, or not use that part of the throttle and leave it disconnected, etc.

Often, but not always, the throttle sensor wires are black for ground, red for 5v, and white or green for signal. But there is no guarantee of this, and a miswire can damage the sensor or the controller or both, especially when you have wiring between devices that have both battery voltage and 5v in them.

To know for sure how to hook up your wires, you would have to open up both units and see where each wire goes, and match the wires by function, because matching by color is not always safe since colors are not used consistently.

 

[Planet Indigo]

I'm certain the old twist throttle on/off switch turns off both the throttle and the 3 led display.
The new thumb throttle came with a 3 pin black red green, and separately a blue female bullet and yellow male bullet. I was hoping this was a good hint that the 3 pin is throttle and the yellow/blue extras for the led and on/off.

I'm not putting full faith into it since it's an aliexpress item description but my new throttle has that in its description:

Green is for throttle hall signal, red wire is for throttle +5v, black is negative wire; please connect according to controller function wire, U can not just match same color wire, if wrong connected that will damage your controller and throttle.
4 wires : yellow is for voltage display wire, connect with electric bike power positive.
5 wires: blue wire connect with controller power lock output wire, yellow wire connected with controller electric switch input wire power positive,
6 wires: yellow connected with power positive, blue wire and white is is function wire(can work as reverse switch, horn switch, cruise switch, power lock and so on)
7 wires: yellow connected with power positive, blue is share wire, middle gear for 3 gears , white is high gear, brown is low gear.

Is that enough info to make a decent educated guess?

 

[Planet Indigo]

I have a voltmeter, I tried to check the connector pins coming out of the controller throttle 6 pin plug (while the throttle was not connected so I could access the pins with the voltmeter), but I could not read any voltage out of any of them, is that normal? Does the throttle need to be plugged in for them to show any voltage? (Can't do that though since it blocks access to the pins)

 

[amberwolf]

I'm certain the old twist throttle on/off switch turns off both the throttle and the 3 led display.

That means that switch is on the battery voltage line. Which wire that is you can test with a voltmeter while it is connected to the controller. It will read battery voltage when connected, whether the switch is on or not, as long as the system's battery is connected and powered on. Set the meter to DCVolts, and black lead to battery negative. Red lead probe each pin on the conector.

You can then find out which other wires are 5v and throttle signal using the same procedure. signal will be around 1v or so when thorttle off, around 4v or so when full on.

The new thumb throttle came with a 3 pin black red green,

Then those are almost certainly the three throttle sensor wires, ground, 5v, signal. You can either try them on the controller this way, or you can use a 5v source (usb charger, etc) to power the throttle sensor and verify with voltmeter on the signal wire, same as above.

and separately a blue female bullet and yellow male bullet. I was hoping this was a good hint that the 3 pin is throttle and the yellow/blue extras for the led and on/off.

That you can test using a multimeter on continuity. If the switch is completely separate then you'll get continuity when the switch is on, but not when it is off. If the switch only powers the meter then there'll be no continuity either way. The likely way it is wired up is both wires will be for the switch, one for each side of it, and one of the wires also powers the voltmeter. The voltmeter's other side is probably connected to the throttle signal ground (probably black).

The voltmeter probably works even at lower voltages, so you can test with a 5v source (usb charger, etc) to verify the voltmeter's wiring.

 

[amberwolf]

I have a voltmeter, I tried to check the connector pins coming out of the controller throttle 6 pin plug (while the throttle was not connected so I could access the pins with the voltmeter), but I could not read any voltage out of any of them, is that normal? Does the throttle need to be plugged in for them to show any voltage? (Can't do that though since it blocks access to the pins)

If the old throttle switch controls power to the controller, it must be plugged in for hte ocntroller to have power to then generate 5v to run the throttle.

It will still have battery voltage on one pin of the controller even without the throttle connnected, as long as your battery is connected and turned on and working. If ther'es no voltage on the battery positive itself, then there will be nothing on this connector either.

The voltmeter needs to be set to DCvolts, and black lead connected to battery negative (usually black, normaly all black wires are ground or battery negative, one of the very very few things that is almost always the same on every one of these things).

 

[Planet Indigo]

I must not have had full contact between the voltmeter probe and the pin in my last test, because I did it again and I got 52v out of the yellow wire, with the throttle not connected so I could access the pins, the other pins all had 0v. If I connect the throttle I lose access to the pins and I can't see an easy way to cleanly insert the voltmeter probes in the middle of that.

If I trust the Aliexpress description, I think I should connect black to black, red to red, green to white, yellow to yellow (given that I just measured 52v on my controller's yellow). I'm just not sure if the blue wire should connect to the controller's green or brown.

I still don't understand why my old one has 6 wires and the new one 5, given that they have the same basic functions, throttle, on/off switch (just 2 positions on both, not 3) and a voltage display. Is one of my 6 wires going to the old twist throttle like a fake wire connected to nothing inside?

 

[TommyCat]

I still don't understand why my old one has 6 wires and the new one 5, given that they have the same basic functions, throttle, on/off switch (just 2 positions on both, not 3) and a voltage display. Is one of my 6 wires going to the old twist throttle like a fake wire connected to nothing inside?

This thread may explain one possibility...

Still throttle wiring problems



Regards,
T.C.

 

[Planet Indigo]

UPDATE:
Amberwolf, thanks a lot for all the help, I think I'm nearly there.
I found a way to insert the voltmeter probes while the old twist throttle is connected.
While it is connected:
When the twist throttle is on the OFF position: red, white, brown, green have 0V, yellow has 52V.
When the twist throttle is on the ON position: red has 4.3V, white has 0.8V, yellow, brown and green all have 52V.

It seems clear that red is the 5v positive, white is the throttle signal, and yellow sends the voltage to the thottle voltage led display. After that both brown and green seem to send back 52v to the controller to tell it that the throttle is ON, but I am clueless on which of the two (brown and green) my new throttle's blue wire is supposed to connect to. And also, is it safe to have the other one of the two have nothing connected to them? (after all my new throttle has 5 wires instead of the old one's 6).
Does anyone know which of the two I should connect my blue to, and if it's safe to have the other wire have nothing connected to it?

 

[amberwolf]

Should I assume you mean "when the twist throttle *switch* is on the XXX position"? (since turning the throttle to any position on or off should not change any wire voltage than the throttle signal wire. )

If that's the case, then:
Red is your throttle "5v" wire
White is your throttle signal wire
Black is your system ground wire
Yellow is your B+ source wire
Brown and Green are both B+ returns to the controller which powers the controller on (it doesn't tell the controller the throttle is on, because the throttle isn't on until the controller sends it 5v to power it, which it can't do until it gets B+ back from the switch). Which one is required I don't know, but you can check this by disconnecting one of them. If the controller stays on (5v remains available) when it's disconnected, then it's not required. If the controller turns off when it's disconnected, then reconnect it, and disconnect the other one. If the controller stays on (5v remains available) when it's disconnected, then it's not required. If it turns off when either one is disconnected, then since you don't have two B+ returns from the other throttle/switch unit, you can splice one of these two wires into the other so they both get B+. Otherwise, you can simply leave it disconnected (it may have a function that's not obvious that you could find out about later).

 

[Planet Indigo]

Ok thanks, I'll proceed with those tests and find out.
Two questions:
- There's no way having either or both of those wires disconnected could damage the throttle or the controller, right?
- When you say "it may have a function that's not obvious that you could find out later", do you have an example? What kind of thing are you thinking of that it could be?

 

[amberwolf]

Well, you can't have both of them disconnected or the controller won't operate, because it isn't getting B+ to it's LVPS that makes the 5v/12v/etc that runs everything in it, and the motor halls, throttle, PAS, etc.

If the wire has B+ on it, then if it is hanging loose somewhere dangling uninsulated, it could short to something else. If it's still in the connector, just with no mating wire to it, it is safe enough. **** If it's not in the connector but it's insulated from everything and secured (tied down) then it's safe enough.

If it has no voltage present on it, then as long as it can't touch anything else it's safe enough, too.

**** for non waterproof connectors, then for water/etc exposure it's as safe as the rest of the contacts in the connector, as none of them have protection against such things.


Some functions it could be: headlight / taillight power, or power for a DC-DC to run lights, power for a separate voltmeter / battery display, etc. Probably other things I can't think of ATM. Depends on whether the controller has a wire that comes out of it somewhere else for that function that's attached to that wire inside the controller.

 

[Eastwood]

Your thumb throttle is a great choice
Use this same one on a few builds. I’ll try to find a pic of how mine is wired.

 

[Planet Indigo]

Boom, problem solved! Connected new throttle blue to controller brown and it works perfectly! So to recap, I went black to black, red to red, green to white, yellow to yellow, blue to brown (controller's green left empty).
Thanks again Amberwolf for the help troubleshooting this.
And thanks Eastwood for the compliment, I browsed quite a lot of them on aliexpress.

 

[hemmadroid101]

My hub kit originally came with a twist throttle, it has an on/off button and a three color led charge indicator. It came with a 6 pin connector color coded black, red, white, yellow, brown, green, in that order. (Btw, shouldn't it be only 5 wires for those functions, I thought 6 wires were for one extra function like low/high gear or a horn?)

My replacement thumb throttle also has an on/off switch, and it has a 3 digits LED voltage screen. It has 5 wires, originally black, red, green in a 3 pin, then a blue female bullet connector and a yellow male bullet connector. I've changed the blue and yellow to a pin connector and I just need to assemble the pins back in a 6 pin connector (5 out of 6, one left empty)

How should I match my black, red, green, blue, yellow thumb throttle wires to my black, red, white, yellow, brown, green controller?
Please see included pics.

UPDATE:
Amberwolf, thanks a lot for all the help, I think I'm nearly there.
I found a way to insert the voltmeter probes while the old twist throttle is connected.
While it is connected:
When the twist throttle is on the OFF position: red, white, brown, green have 0V, yellow has 52V.
When the twist throttle is on the ON position: red has 4.3V, white has 0.8V, yellow, brown and green all have 52V.

It seems clear that red is the 5v positive, white is the throttle signal, and yellow sends the voltage to the thottle voltage led display. After that both brown and green seem to send back 52v to the controller to tell it that the throttle is ON, but I am clueless on which of the two (brown and green) my new throttle's blue wire is supposed to connect to. And also, is it safe to have the other one of the two have nothing connected to them? (after all my new throttle has 5 wires instead of the old one's 6).
Does anyone know which of the two I should connect my blue to, and if it's safe to have the other wire have nothing connected to it?

Probably already solved this issue but like I've done in the past, I read all posts and replys emersing myself in bldc culture. The more I read the better my skills get.
Every throttle 3 wire connection to the controller should be red wire (4.3- 5v DC ), black wire (ground), 3rd wire could be any color (0.1- 4.3v DC) proprietary manufacturers like Lime and Bird are known to use crazy color combinations intentionally to foil those trying to work around their rental scooters.
I alwaysScooters. Type of equipment from an Amazon seller that shows clear wiring diagrams on the Amazon posting. Not many Chinese sellers give after sales support so your pretty much going to have to go off the shown wire diagram to connect everything.
I've not seen a controller that uses a 52 volt signal wire for throttle. I'd guess 52 volts is an input wire to controller to show display battery voltage. I've cooked controllers before by connecting stuff like that!
A good start connecting a strange controller would be to connect motor phase and hall wires to controller then power wires and lastly the single "learn/ intelligent" wires. If all is working your learn connection will spin the motor. Personally I'd open the aluminum box and examine the controller board and look for the 3 wires soldered to "4.3v red , gnd black., and sig. or in . Possibly white?..whatever the term they use for signal input. Pins