samsavvas
100 W
Kepler said:
...and the battery is?
Any more pics?
Savvas
New Bafang Crank-Drives
- Thread starter d8veh
- Start date
...and the battery is?
Any more pics?
Savvas
Kepler
10 MW
Battery is just LiPo Zippy Compacts. 13S 5.8ah. About 5ah usable so around 250Whrs in total. Made up of 2 5S packs and the other 3S made up from a 5S pack with 2 failed cells removed. All stuffed into my latest battery case while I wait for my 18650 cells to arrive. The 18650 pack will be 14S 4P with BMS and around 500Whr 8)
To get an average speed of 32kmh and only 200watt hours consumption over 28km 7wh/km how much were you peddling ? Can you repeat the same ride but with the Zero or very little peddle assistance but full motor power what average speed would it do and what watt hours ?
its very hard to gauge the efficiency of the Bbs02 mid drive if their is a lot of peddling at the same time.
its very hard to gauge the efficiency of the Bbs02 mid drive if their is a lot of peddling at the same time.
astmacca
100 W
So, i have ordered this pack from EM3ev.
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=161
46.8V 11Ah.
It has these LED's built in:
Now, am i right in thinking that these will light up according to how "full" the battery is, but how many light up is actually based on voltage, not amp hours / watt hours remaining in the cells??
Having cast about the threads on "fuel gauges" and watt meters here i am thinking of harassing a friend at work who knows FAR more about electronics than i ever will into making up the electronics to have those LEDS actually reflect the amp hours left in the pack. Probably based on the stuff in this thread as a start point.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22675
Anyone familiar with these packs see any show stoppers with that idea? Apart from me probably having to supply him with too much alcohol and chocolate?
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=161
46.8V 11Ah.
It has these LED's built in:
Now, am i right in thinking that these will light up according to how "full" the battery is, but how many light up is actually based on voltage, not amp hours / watt hours remaining in the cells??
Having cast about the threads on "fuel gauges" and watt meters here i am thinking of harassing a friend at work who knows FAR more about electronics than i ever will into making up the electronics to have those LEDS actually reflect the amp hours left in the pack. Probably based on the stuff in this thread as a start point.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22675
Anyone familiar with these packs see any show stoppers with that idea? Apart from me probably having to supply him with too much alcohol and chocolate?
Lenk42602
10 kW
Kepler said:
this is interesting data - more so now that I am also pedal assisted. what PAS level/throttle amount was used?
136 bpm...... - if you figure out a way to integrate heart rate sensing into PAS, that could be nifty...
len
Tom L
1 kW
astmacca said:
Yep. I've opened up mine to do some repairs. The Lectric Cycles ones are filled with hot glue :/
The packs from cellman are full of RTV silicone according to their website so it may be a bit easier to dig out.
Tom L
1 kW
Kepler said:
Is that a custom case or available from somewhere Kepler?
That's a sweet looking ride. Very stealthy.
astmacca
100 W
Tom L said:
Wot, the whole thing is filled up???
I was expecting that the cells would be bound up block like in some kind of matrix, but thought that there would be air space around the wiring and mounted plugs inside the case?
Tom L
1 kW
No not completely filled but enough to make it a pain to rewire. If you are buying from cellman you could get him to make sure the LED circuitry was not covered as they build the packs to order.
astmacca
100 W
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung INR18650-29E 2900mAh (Blue) UK.html
Interesting page with a review and specs of the samsung 29E cells.
Interesting page with a review and specs of the samsung 29E cells.
deepfraught
100 W
Probably good time as a local to you astmacca, to show my first BBS02 build, transferring the 50V 25Ah 29E triangle pack from a front MAC rear belt/alfine 8 steel road commuter built at start of year, all from Paul EM3EV. Picked up this large Merida 120 that fit the battery on 2yo model runout. Riding some rough paths at speed had me wanting dual suspension in the road bike, the Thudbuster on previous bike was good, but these paths throwing surprises it was still hard on the wrists despite the upright BMX bars. The Merida is a 73mm BB so only 1 lockring and some alternative measures. Comes in ~26kg that is half bike, quarter kit, quarter battery.
The Topeak Tourguide handlebar pack didn't clear cables nicely out front, I found it mounted nicely on the seat post, and without dangling rearward like my other saddle and seatpost luggage, it wasn't like a waggling delayed appendage throwing off handling, behaving as one with bike/bum so not noticing it, and keeps the compact looks.
I wasn't happy with the bag straps disrupting the pinstriping top swooping line of the frame, so trimmed them back to minimum on this frame bag to tuck away, and used a combo of big 7.6mm cable ties and smaller others to keep the pack jammed in. While I've got secure parking freedom at work, I can side-step the semi-permanent battery installation.
The longest trip on the MAC kit with the battery pack not fully charged got me ~80km to Fremantle and back for a sudden appointment, at 90% heart rate at top speed in low power against a strong SWerly sea breeze. I got surprise air and foot slip off on the footpath keeping flat out. The up-side was on low battery I had a tail wind return, I was enjoying it so much along the coast I overshot my turnoff past the sunset and hit battery LVC for first time on last street before home. Front geared hub and rear Alfine 8 still was nice to pedal with or without assist. I like the separation of the two. I need to do a shift cutout like Kepler's throttle circuits as I'm not shifting naturally and contributing enough with my legs. As I've typed this, I realised I just got a cheap 29er suspension fork, I may have to try it on the MAC kit, give this triangle battery back to that kit, and run a lighter shorter range like Kepler's on my dual suspension BBS02.
The Topeak Tourguide handlebar pack didn't clear cables nicely out front, I found it mounted nicely on the seat post, and without dangling rearward like my other saddle and seatpost luggage, it wasn't like a waggling delayed appendage throwing off handling, behaving as one with bike/bum so not noticing it, and keeps the compact looks.
I wasn't happy with the bag straps disrupting the pinstriping top swooping line of the frame, so trimmed them back to minimum on this frame bag to tuck away, and used a combo of big 7.6mm cable ties and smaller others to keep the pack jammed in. While I've got secure parking freedom at work, I can side-step the semi-permanent battery installation.
The longest trip on the MAC kit with the battery pack not fully charged got me ~80km to Fremantle and back for a sudden appointment, at 90% heart rate at top speed in low power against a strong SWerly sea breeze. I got surprise air and foot slip off on the footpath keeping flat out. The up-side was on low battery I had a tail wind return, I was enjoying it so much along the coast I overshot my turnoff past the sunset and hit battery LVC for first time on last street before home. Front geared hub and rear Alfine 8 still was nice to pedal with or without assist. I like the separation of the two. I need to do a shift cutout like Kepler's throttle circuits as I'm not shifting naturally and contributing enough with my legs. As I've typed this, I realised I just got a cheap 29er suspension fork, I may have to try it on the MAC kit, give this triangle battery back to that kit, and run a lighter shorter range like Kepler's on my dual suspension BBS02.
opperpanter
100 W
I believe this has been posted before and someone questioned their testing methods (maybe cell_man himself).astmacca said:
The discharge curve in that test seems to differ from what other tests are seeing for the 29E.
opperpanter
100 W
Where on earth did you get that tire?deepfraught said:Probably good time as a local to you astmacca, to show my first BBS02 build, transferring the 50V 25Ah 29E triangle pack from a front MAC rear belt/alfine 8 steel road commuter built at start of year, all from Paul EM3EV. Picked up this large Merida 120 that fit the battery on 2yo model runout. Riding some rough paths at speed had me wanting dual suspension in the road bike, the Thudbuster on previous bike was good, but these paths throwing surprises it was still hard on the wrists despite the upright BMX bars. The Merida is a 73mm BB so only 1 lockring and some alternative measures. Comes in ~26kg that is half bike, quarter kit, quarter battery.
The Topeak Tourguide handlebar pack didn't clear cables nicely out front, I found it mounted nicely on the seat post, and without dangling rearward like my other saddle and seatpost luggage, it wasn't like a waggling delayed appendage throwing off handling, behaving as one with bike/bum so not noticing it, and keeps the compact looks.
I wasn't happy with the bag straps disrupting the pinstriping top swooping line of the frame, so trimmed them back to minimum on this frame bag to tuck away, and used a combo of big 7.6mm cable ties and smaller others to keep the pack jammed in. While I've got secure parking freedom at work, I can side-step the semi-permanent battery installation.
The longest trip on the MAC kit with the battery pack not fully charged got me ~80km to Fremantle and back for a sudden appointment, at 90% heart rate at top speed in low power against a strong SWerly sea breeze. I got surprise air and foot slip off on the footpath keeping flat out. The up-side was on low battery I had a tail wind return, I was enjoying it so much along the coast I overshot my turnoff past the sunset and hit battery LVC for first time on last street before home. Front geared hub and rear Alfine 8 still was nice to pedal with or without assist. I like the separation of the two. I need to do a shift cutout like Kepler's throttle circuits as I'm not shifting naturally and contributing enough with my legs. As I've typed this, I realised I just got a cheap 29er suspension fork, I may have to try it on the MAC kit, give this triangle battery back to that kit, and run a lighter shorter range like Kepler's on my dual suspension BBS02.
deepfraught
100 W
opperpanter said:Where on earth did you get that tire?
It was white like the rear, but I left a red valve cap on in the rain
tomjasz
1 GW
No, that feature of the pack is not utilized by EM3ev or Lectric Cycles.astmacca said:
Edit, Not on the packs I purchased from them.
Kepler
10 MW
Gab said:
To most, 32kph doesn't sound like much but it doesn't take much to drag your average down. In the graph that i posted above, you can see speed were much lower at the start and the end of the ride however for the majority of the time I was close to 40kph. For 200Whr consumption over 28km and this average speed, I need to work hard with the bike. An average heat rate of 136 is 80% max heart rate for me (53 years old) and the zone I really like to train at. As a comparison, I average a similar average heart rate when doing a 10km jog averaging 11kph.
So these numbers are not the numbers to use to understand the drives efficiency unless you plan to ride with the same work rate. I think the point though is you can setup the BBS on a bike that you can efficiently contribute to the overall work output. One thing I can say about efficiency is that keeping the bike in the right gear and keeping the cadence up really aids with the drives efficiency. I aim to keep my cadence at around 80rpm. Sorry I can't help you with a Zero or very little pedal assist as I dont have te battery capacity and my bike is setup with pedal assist only with 750W boost button for quick take off and boost when required.
I think it would be a fair estimate that I was putting in around 200w continuous on top of the the drive's 200W input. So probably 14 to 15 Wh/km would be a fair estimate on the same ride with very low human input.
Kepler
10 MW
Lenk42602 said:
My drive is custom programed and I have my 9 PAS levels in 10% incuments. I just use the first 3 PAS levels most of the the time which loosely equate to 100W, 200W, and 300W respectively. PAS 2 is where it sits the most.
Heart rate to power input would indeed be a nifty feature. Might have bit more of a think about that 8)
Kepler
10 MW
Tom L said:
Yes the case is custom. More detail on it on pages 3 and 4 of thread dedicated to this bike. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60375
Clobber
10 mW
Kepler said:
We live in a small town, but we live in the countryside just out of town. The average speed on my wifes CAR is only 37 km/h!
Rush hour here means it takes 20 minutes to get home (right across town), instead of 15 :lol:
So 32 is pretty good! - I only average 25 on my hub motor commuter.
astmacca
100 W
deepfraught, my daughter would seriously love that front tyre.
opperpanter. Interesting to hear. The specs for the cells quoted seem to match up iwth other info i found. Will search threads further. Thanks.
tomjasz. " No, that feature of the pack is not utilized by EM3ev or Lectric Cycles." Ah well. Will see if there is space in there when i get it, and maybe simplest thing will be to just mount a watt meter some where discrete.
opperpanter. Interesting to hear. The specs for the cells quoted seem to match up iwth other info i found. Will search threads further. Thanks.
tomjasz. " No, that feature of the pack is not utilized by EM3ev or Lectric Cycles." Ah well. Will see if there is space in there when i get it, and maybe simplest thing will be to just mount a watt meter some where discrete.
beachcruiser
100 mW
Kepler said:
Can this be set up in the display or does this require custom programming? I'm waiting on my BBS02 kit so preparing myself in advance.
deepfraught, love the front tyre and great to see another local on here.
Kepler
10 MW
I have found the factory programming to be all over the place with some crazy steps between PAS settings. Below is what I found on the last drive i programmed. All of them have the ability to set the number of PAS settings from the display but the actual % steps needs to be custom programmed. The ones from Paul I believe have the programming nicely optimized before delivery.
Attachments
astmacca
100 W
beachcruiser said:
As you are buying from Paul @ EM3ev it will most likely be set up same as mine.
His programming is:
PAS 0 : no assist but 100% speed / throttle available
PAS1 : 20% assist (100W for my 500W motor) and 100% speed / throttle available
PAS2 : 30% assist (150W for my 500W motor) and 100% speed / throttle available
PAS 3-9 : goes up in 10% increments for assist giving 100% (500W) @ PAS9 with 100% speed / throttle available.
The assist watts available will be higher as your getting the 750W version.
beachcruiser
100 mW
astmacca said:
Awesome, that is what I am after, thanks.
beachcruiser
100 mW
Kepler said:
Thanks Kepler.
Incidentally I am in the Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne at the moment in Mitcham for a few days.
