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New Bafang Crank-Drives

crossbreak said:
you're welcome ;)

guess there are just four units:

BBS-01, ranging from 250-350W, with PAS
BBT-01, ranging from 250-350W, with torque sensor, release date first quartal of 2014
BBS-02, ranging from 500-750W, with PAS
BBT-02, ranging from 500-750W, with torque sensor, release date ??

all 250 or 350W statements may refer to respective battery voltage / wind / controller settings. Maybe there is just one wind for each version, they just use different settings... just dont know, did not test any of these units either
Click to expand...

I am waiting for the BBT-01 or BBT-02, (torque sensor) who to ask when it will be released? where to check when it is released (besides here)

thanks
 
That's a good review spinning magnets, but you haven't mentioned any downsides this kit has to other middrives available ?

And there is 2 big ones i can see, it doesn't have freewheel cranks? which means you have to peddle to get power, which some people might not like having to peddle all the time over large distances, and can be a big problem for true offroading as you will get peddle strike around sharp corners. If you are going up steep hills and sharp corners this will be a big problem not having freewheel cranks.

And also the other thing is this kit has only 1 chain ring on the front, which means you loose the ability of climbeing very steep hills for hard offroad work. The GNG and Cyclone type kits do not have these 2 issues above.
 
Gab said:
That's a good review spinning magnets, but you haven't mentioned any downsides this kit has to other middrives available ?

And there is 2 big ones i can see, it doesn't have freewheel cranks? which means you have to peddle to get power, which some people might not like having to peddle all the time over large distances, and can be a big problem for true offroading as you will get peddle strike around sharp corners. If you are going up steep hills and sharp corners this will be a big problem not having freewheel cranks.

And also the other thing is this kit has only 1 chain ring on the front, which means you loose the ability of climbeing very steep hills for hard offroad work. The GNG and Cyclone type kits do not have these 2 issues above.
Click to expand...

It does have freewheeling cranks.
I am sure someone will workout how to fit double rings, but having said that there are rear wheel hubs with 3 speed internal gearing plus the normal cassette as well,Sram call them Dual drives, but there is a cheaper version may have been Sturmley Archer.
Having said that a crank drive with a single ring still has a lot of climbing capability compared to a hub.
 
I don't have much experience with ebike and only been commuting one week with 350W BBS01... the only ebike i have is a BH Neo Xtrem which have more torque/acceleration but speed limited to 32kph. I prefer the BBS01 because of the speed and is absolutely silent and stealthy.

350w is just enough for me to commute and keep up the commuting lycras at 35-38kph.

if you want more torque/speed i would definately get the 750W version... illegal in Oz also.

I don't usually change gears and stay on 36T/11cog with the motor and human power I usually manage to go up most hills.
GEAR PROBlEM:its a bit hard to down gears from 12->11cogs, 13->12cogs,etc...i have to do a slight back pedal to get the gears to go down. Going up from 11->12cog, 12->13 cogs,etc.. is not a problem.

positive:
easy to install and nice/clean look.
stealthy
silent
higher speed compaared to Neo Xtrem

negative:
need more torque/acceleration..but i guess i could change to higher cogs
gear change problem
hard on the chains

if I had to choose again I would definately get the 750w version...but changing gears going to be a BIGGER problem.
 
Thanks Melbourne

Really good of you to share

Im surprised its harder to go down gears than up

I was considering the 350 watt as is is a big saving over the 750 watt version, i may even hold off for the torque sensor version, they may have figured out the motor over run gear change problem, or the 750 watt may have enough power to not worry about changing gear very often.

Might wait and see how "Kepler" goes :)

Love the concept and execution of this motor, want to build a nice light E-xc bike

Thx again
 
melbourne: if I had to choose again I would definitely get the 750w version
Click to expand...

yeah that's the thing, if you are going to make it illegal you might as well make it useful power ! and not just above legal power.

Also the 750w and 350w look similar anyway. The only problem is, is their a 250w legal version of this kit for Europe/Australia ? That would be good if they look the same as 750w illegal version. That's the benefit with the elation/cyclone kits as the 2000w version's look the same as the 250w legal versions . And that's also the downside of the GNG kits as their is NO legal 250w version look-alike. Any informed police officer who knows about ebikes can see from far away if it is or isn't legal regardless if it's quiet or not. I could see at some point them doing a crack down on kits that look, like X , Y, Z
 
Yes thanks Melbourne. That is great solid real world info and basically what I thought would be the case. 750W will give you the power to sustain 45 kph regardless if you are using a small geared hub motor or a drive like this one. However, the difference is the drive train. Just re enforces the fact that a good quality gear system should be a major priority when considering a mid drive system. My plan is not to skimp with this part of the build and to use a close ratio cluster, probably an Ultegra 10 speed 11/25.
 
Why is the 750w version $150 dollars more than the 350w version
Click to expand...

It's just "what the market will bear" right now. There's nothing close to it, competing systems are either much weaker or too obviously much more powerful.

That would be good if they look the same as 750w illegal version
Click to expand...

I agree, and this is one of the reasons I think the 750W kit will do very well. The motor "looks too small" to be one horsepower. If it was designed to run at 24V, it would have to be twice as large to provide the same power level. And since both look identical to the untrained eye, I suspect that this kit will be very popular in hilly sections of power-limited countries, since customers can believably suggest that it is clearly a 250W motor (look how small it is!).

The 250W/350w version (power-governed by max amp limits in the controller) should climb well, but it will have to be downshifted to a much lower gear to maintain forward movement (if both loads are equal). The 750W version will be able to use more amps and a taller gear without the over-heat protections cutting the power.
 
Just wanted to thank you for all your valuable postings and advice which facilitate decisions greatly. I am almost convinced to swap the cyclone motor in my velomobile for a BBS01 350W motor. The performance of the cyclone is not bad but the noise level in a velomobile is.
 
Rudolf, Willkommen, Sie sind aus Deutschland, den Niederlanden oder einem anderen interessanten Ort? Ich schreibe auch Geschichten für electricbike.com, wenn Sie lesen über diese Dinge mögen.
 
Thank's spinningmagnets , I am Austrian and if I really change to the Bafang I will leave a short review here.
 
I have run over 11K miles on a 350 watt mid-drive system. I can tell you that running a through-the-gears drive with torque sensing, or pedalec is a bad idea. None of the torque sensors or pedalecs respond quick enough. For decent shifting performance and chain life you need to back off the throttle going into lower/easier gears. Upshifts are fine at WOT, but downshifts will bust your quick link in short order. I broke a bunch before figuring this out. Haven't broken one in 10K miles since. And for the 750 kit, with IGH's you need to back off the throttle to unload the hub, so it can shift. A torque sensor is just a nuisance with through-the-gear drives. You run WOT all the time and pick the gear that gives you a decent cadence, and the wattage takes care of itself. This is the case for properly designed systems, as this one is. If you under or over volt the unit, without changing the chainring to maintain proper cadence, you will defeat the design.
 
I run a Tonaro crank drive, the trick to smooth quite gear changes is to fit brake levers with switches and then just tap the brake lever which shuts the motor off instantly, change gears and by then the motor is winding back up which allows for silky smooth, quiet changes.
 
On long rides you don't have to hold the throttle just pedal as lightly as you wish.
Or in my case I prefer to be able to ride like a bike, so I just pedal and treat the bike as an unassisted one, on my bikes with a throttle and pas I don't use the throttle, personal preference.
 
More good info. :)

Personally I am a big fan of PAS systems and have it fitted to all my ebikes. Even my Stealth Fighter has a PAS system fitted (Using a CA3) so this build will no different. I take Warren's point though and understand the added complication PAS brings to a crank drive system. Geebee seems to have a good work around through using the brake switches for instant cutout followed by the built in ramp up applied by the re engaging PAS system. I am not that keen on brake switches though mainly because I run Hydros on most of my bikes. I understand there is a safety consideration but a good set of Hydros will over power most drive systems in an emergency situation anyway.

I think though I will try and automate the motor kill action rather than relying on tapping the brake lever. Already worked out a micro switch arrangement for my rapid fire shifter that will kill the motor just before the gear change. The plan is to use the normally open contacts on the mico and setup the switch so that it is depressed i.e. closed with the shifter in the park position. There is a dead band with most shifters before they start moving the derailleur and the micro will be setup to open circuit during the dead band phase of the shift. The micro will then close circuit with the shifter back in the park position. Plan is just to have the motor kill on downshifts for starters and see how it goes. I like the idea of keeping the up shifts nice and quick but if I start busting stuff, I will setup a second micro.

Now this is how upshifting is done :mrgreen:

[youtube]iMO4zgCn9Is[/youtube]
 
I think though I will try and automate the motor kill action rather than relying on tapping the brake lever. Already worked out a micro switch arrangement for my rapid fire shifter that will kill the motor just before the gear change. The plan is to use the normally open contacts on the mico and setup the switch so that it is depressed i.e. closed with the shifter in the park position.
Click to expand...

Cool! and now that bikes are getting electronic shifters why not put that on an ebike, intercept the signal from the electronic shifter, and use that to cut the motor power or roll it back to a safe level? .... other than the fact that Shimano's electronic shifters are insanely expensive. An arduino and a servo could do the job for less than a tenth the price.
 
full-throttle said:
@ Melbourne: are you commuting on the Bafang this week? Wouldn't mind having a look.
Click to expand...

Yep... will be commuting with it. You r welcome to have a look... but you will be sadly disappointed, its under-powered compared to your beast. :0
 
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