New Clyte motor 7400

[markobetti]

Yeah it's time that E-S desing a real beast motor 500W rated and 20kW continuous

Doc

Having piloted bicycles with >20kw OUTPUT at the rear wheel, I can tell you it's much more fun than 10kw at the rear wheel, and 5kw at the rear wheel makes me sleepy.

I've got enough time with 9C's on the dyno to know there power saturation limits pretty well. No matter what voltage or current you shove into them (and I've tried up to 165v and 200amps), you're totally saturated at ~8hp out.

The CroMotor being a double-stack of 9C's means it should be able to ~16hp out before saturating. That's a big step up from the 5304 that peaked at 11.4hp out at full saturation.

However, I'm with Doc here, a hub that can do about twice this power is really what we need IMHO.

I love when Luke trows numbers on us , always gives theory a face of reality witch in this case is good ...
Well the truth is if we all were normal 500 watt would be great..

 

[Accountant]

Yeah it's time that E-S desing a real beast motor 500W rated and 20kW continuous

Doc

Having piloted bicycles with >20kw OUTPUT at the rear wheel, I can tell you it's much more fun than 10kw at the rear wheel, and 5kw at the rear wheel makes me sleepy.

I've got enough time with 9C's on the dyno to know there power saturation limits pretty well. No matter what voltage or current you shove into them (and I've tried up to 165v and 200amps), you're totally saturated at ~8hp out.

The CroMotor being a double-stack of 9C's means it should be able to ~16hp out before saturating. That's a big step up from the 5304 that peaked at 11.4hp out at full saturation.

However, I'm with Doc here, a hub that can do about twice this power is really what we need IMHO.

It is not a problem to make 50 kw motor.

Question is what is max weight for bicycle hubmotor still acceptable ?

We can make bigger, more powerfull, and/but heavier motors, without problems


Where is the reasonable line ?

 

[dogman dan]

Reasonable line was crossed years back. The fun line just keeps moving to more hp. Eventually the fun line leaves the earth, and you start getting a pilot licence.

In a lot of ways, hubmotors already weigh way too much. 9c is already too heavy, and affects handling drasticly in the dirt compared to a good naked FS bike. But for street, it's not such a big deal. So a heavy hub on asphalt is not so bad at all.

 

[gensem]

Reasonable line was crossed years back. The fun line just keeps moving to more hp. Eventually the fun line leaves the earth, and you start getting a pilot licence.

+1 dogman. A reasonable hub motor should have 2kw, this is whats needed to commute in a hilly area... anything over this and we are leaning towards the fun department.

I think people want a hub thats like 3 magic pies stacked together with a weight around 15kg and capable of 30hp... is it possible to make such a hub Accountant?
Or even a 20" sized 3x pie alike motor that you can snap tires on it directly. hehehe

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, sounds like a dream hub to me. Fat stator, even bigger diameter, large bearings for the wire to exit and torque arm key, and maybe cast moped or scooter tire rim. At some point, screw spokes. But it might still be pretty difficult to bolt to a regular bike. Fortunately custom swing arms are becoming normal for the high power crowd.

 

[Accountant]

I think people want a hub thats like 3 magic pies stacked together with a weight around 15kg and capable of 30hp... is it possible to make such a hub Accountant?
Or even a 20" sized 3x pie alike motor that you can snap tires on it directly. hehehe


Not only possible, Hal already have technical drawing for such a motor, and even for some more powerfull ones.


Problem is that you can not ride bicycle 200 kmh, or better formulated,you can, but for what purpose except racing.

After a few rides like that, your batery pack will be dead, and your tires,brake pads, suspension and frame, can also be ready for dump.



My idea was to manufacture the most reliable motor, which will not be too heavy, and will not be used by more than 50 % of real capabilities.

I want to use my controller and my motor, with zero problems for at least 3 years.

Something like 24 Headway cells, 18-24 controller with mosfets 4110,limited to 80A, +cromotor, this combination can be used for long time




I am just making market research to hear what exactly you want to buy ; every day motor, or extreme racing machine.

We can offer both.

 

[Hugues]

same here, i think 2 KW is enough to climb any hills for leisure and commuting, i'm excluding racing here.

And weight is an issue when going out of paved roads, my current 10 kgs rear wheel on my mountain bike is too heavy to ride it like crazy on the trail.

But 20 KW is barely enough for having fun in deep snow, 35 KW would be needed.

20KW could be quite interesting on a Hanebrink bike though ! Who knows....

 

[MadRhino]

I am just making market research to hear what exactly you want to buy ; every day motor, or extreme racing machine.

We can offer both.

We need both.

 

[Ariane]

My idea was to manufacture the most reliable motor, which will not be too heavy, and will not be used by more than 50 % of real capabilities.I am just making market research to hear what exactly you want to buy ; every day motor, or extreme racing machine. We can offer both.

My ideal hub motor is light as an Agni 95 R can be with 16 KW continuous and 30 KW peak. Sometimes I like to ride my ebike "off road", sometimes I like to ride in bicycle path a low speed and like to pedal it and sometimes I like to ride it at free way speed. If I can I have a light hub motor to do thing like this in the same hub motor, with the same ebike of course, I will be very happy. Even if a 54XX seems power full 15 KG for a motor (only) is too much unsprung weight on swing arm for an ebike I think.

Since today there's no motor up to this task... the Cro motor is good on paper and I'm impatient to see real life test with our members here, good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Whiplash]

Personally, a motor the size and weight of the Bafang that can reliably handle around 2000-3000 watts with internal gear reduction to bring the RPM to about 250 @ 48v for my mid drive setups would ne amazing! Currently the closest thing is the MAC motor from Cell Man, it fits the bill, but is a bit larger than I really want it to be...

 

[Doctorbass]

Personally, a motor the size and weight of the Bafang that can reliably handle around 2000-3000 watts with internal gear reduction to bring the RPM to about 250 @ 48v for my mid drive setups would ne amazing!

Unless it is 100% efficient...... it would need liquid cooling system...

yeah.. liquidcooling... that's something no one have offered this option for sale with the hub motor from now..

It's a great opportunity here!

Power is good... but sustained power is best!!

10kW output motor that is watercooled would be acceptable!

and.. the Hall motor desing without axel is what could be upgraded with liquid cooling option...

from now.. NO bicycle hub motor manufacture are offering a hub motor with watercooling
Guys.. see the opportunity here!

I'm sure the number of buyer that would commit buy is not the problem! right?

Doc

 

[neptronix]

Personally, a motor the size and weight of the Bafang that can reliably handle around 2000-3000 watts with internal gear reduction to bring the RPM to about 250 @ 48v for my mid drive setups would ne amazing! Currently the closest thing is the MAC motor from Cell Man, it fits the bill, but is a bit larger than I really want it to be...

For that kind of power, you want a big motor! more cooling surface on a hub = better.
Also, 3000w on a mid-drive.. how are the freewheel or chain going to handle that.. that's for another thread

I am sure accountant/hal/etc are not in the geared motor business.

I think that the cromotor is great. A smaller motor that would kick the Crystalyte HS/HT's ass would be cool as well.

 

[liveforphysics]

The largest diameter flux gap we can get is what I would want in a hubmotor.

A triple stack of magic-pie stators would be a serious beast of a hubmotor.

 

[gogo]

Is this the intended lacing pattern for the new Clytes? From this eBay auction thread: Subject: Ebay Sale

That configuration would require specialized spokes and some aggressive rim nipple angles.

 

[RoughRider]

hey CROMOTOR...Xlyte is just Kenny...so how can Xlyte be bigger than you???

seriously...i know Kenny for 4 or 5years now...and i know for sure(100%) it is NOT a copy of your motor...

in 2008 Kenny made a motor with hollow axle design for me...it was my own design(i designed it by my self, made all the drawings and Kenny made the motor for me)...the motor was made for my motorcycle...

the motor that you see on the first picture of this thread is a copy of MY design...and it is OK...i gave the design to Kenny

He can do with my design what ever he wants...i gave it to him for free