New conversion project for Piaggio Zip 50

[GianlucaO]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. I recently completed my first 2t scooter conversion. An 2008 Aprilia SR50R, was a 2t piaggio engine. Now it has all the electronics of an E-Max 110S 48v 4kW (taken from a demolished scooter) to which I added a new 13s16p 48v40Ah Li-ion battery with BMS 60A (120A peak, 5A charge). I am satisfied with my first conversion and I would like to proceed with an update even on a Piaggio Zip (already electric: 18v 2.8kW DC with 3x 6v 100Ah Ni-Cd). Now travel about 40km on one charge. My goal this time is greater than in the first conversion. I would like to get at least 80kmh and 70km of autonomy (I estimate 40wh / km). I identified two ways to proceed:
> belt / chain transmission + original Piaggio gears
> Hub motor in the wheel (like E-Max, but 10 ")

The Hub solution is simpler because it is enough to create a frame for the rear wheel with steel and you're done, but I would also be forced to switch to the rear disc brake instead of the original drum. Of advantage I have more space under the saddle for the batteries.

The Mid Drive solution is more elaborate and expensive but has the advantage of keeping the engine away from the stresses of the road, keeping the original rear brake and wheel, the original transmission. on the other hand, I lose the space under the saddle for more batteries.

For the Hub solution I thought of:
> 10 "QS 205 V3 55H 4000W that powered at 72v declare to reach 80kmh and about 200Nm of torque
> Kelly 7245H controller

For the Mid-Drive solution I thought of:
> QS 138 70H 3000W 54Nm powered at 72v (declaring 100kmh with 12 "wheel and 1: 4.77 reduction for me at 10" would be 1: 4.25 per 100kmh)
> Kelly 7245H
> Engine to transmission pulley ratio 1: 2.86
> Ratio of original Piaggio gearbox (11/39 and 14/48) = 12.155: 1
> Total engine rpm ratio / wheel speed 1: 4.25 (Engine = 5352rpm> Wheel = 20.96 rpm> = 27.8 m / s = 100kmh)

P.S. the original 2t piaggio engine has 5Nm
P.P.S. the original motor of Piaggio Zip Electric is the same of Peugeot Scoot'elec and the same electronic components, motor Brushed 18v 2.8kW, but i would to use a normal piaggio transmission carter of Piaggio 50 2T with some modifications (like in pictures).


I am inexperienced but some on an Italian FB group have recommended QS 138 to me compared to QS Hub 205 10 "because it is much higher. In your opinion, which is the best choice for my use and for the services I require? I enclose some photos between which the piaggio transmission cover on which to mount the QS 138 engine (I also attach photos of my sr50r).: D: thumb:

Subsequently, based on the choice of the motor, I will also have to choose a suitable battery.

Thank you all. :thumb:



SR50R-e


Piaggio Zip-50E


Charger on-board


Under-seat place (for battery) (3x 6v 100Ah Ni-Cd)


Carter modified Piaggio 2T 50

 

[mahoma30]

is this Way better for you ?
http://www.qs-motor.com/product/3000w-bldc-mid-drive-motor-assembly-kits-for-electric-motorcycle/

 

[GianlucaO]

I know this kit, but it's 12 inches. However I would like to use the original transmission if possible or simply a hub.

Of course, if this system (QS kit) were better than the original transmission, I could take it seriously. Is there also 10-inch with 138 70H engine?

 

[mahoma30]

do you now this Video ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjp2xI3MIqU

 

[mahoma30]

10 Zoll yes, look
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32863485055.html?spm=a2g0x.12010612.8148356.7.759d2df39OkhBv
but not this Power
send to QS an Email and look, if she can stronger Engin in the 10 Zoll Wheel can take

 

[GianlucaO]

@mahoma30 , yes i know this video. My idea (with MidDrive motor) is like his, but he used all the original casing, while i would only use the transmission semipart (like in my pictures). But the my questions is:
> Is the QS 138 70H motor fit for my purpose or is it not very powerful to push the original piaggio gears?
I would like to get around 100kmh (even 90kmh would be good) and a good acceleration similar to the piaggio 2t engine.
Or the hub motor 4kW is better than mid drive?

Yes, i know theirs kit 10inch with qs 90 motor 1000W, but the qs 138 it's bigger than qs 90. However, i can send an email to get a 10 inch wheel on this:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32882368894.html?spm=a2g0x.12010612.8148356.17.46e32df37QhSqs
but the price is too high. i prefer, at this point, to use the original transmission with the 138 engine or a hub engine (if it has performance suited to my purpose).

 

[mahoma30]

http://mymotorspeedcontroller.com/3000w-138-70h-mid-drive-motor-with-em150s-controller-max-speed-100kph.htm
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=97332
more Information you besome here by ES
over the Topspeed or Torque du you Question the Seller, but E-Motor has more Torque as a Fuel-Engine. I think, the Controller do you can programm. Importend to do this is the Battery ( 72V or 84V )

 

[mahoma30]

https://www.elektroroller-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9838

 

[mahoma30]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHeZGuXJ1lM

 

[GianlucaO]

In fact, the torque (Nm) is greater in an electric motor. The original piaggio 2T 50cc engine has about 5Nm, while the original Piaggio Electric 18v Brushed engine (same as the Peugeot Scoot'elec) I think is 16Nm. Theoretically I should have no problem pushing the Piaggio gears up to the maximum engine speed, in fact, I could probably also reduce the ratio to increase speed (but at the moment I'm not interested in this option).
I intend to use a 72v LiFePo4 pouch minimum 40Ah (up to 87.6V). I don't think the engine can withstand voltages over 72v (it is given for 48v-60v-72v by QS Motor). What good is avei with 84v instead of 72v? I will send an email to QS Motor with the data of the Piaggio transmission gears for confirmation.

With regards to the YouTube video, the engine's start is really powerful. Much better than the 70cc 2T Malossi 16Hp i had
Who knows with which components it has been combined ...

The controller I think I'm using is a kelly KLS 7245H. They tell me it's better than the Votol EM-100 or EM-150.

 

[mahoma30]

ok, tell us, but you beginn the Project include Fotos and you finishes and i hope happy !

 

[GianlucaO]

I state that it will be a long project, beginning with the purchase of the engine and crankcase. Finally the battery. In the meantime I continue to use it original with the 18v.
I also have to sell my new 48v battery before proceeding. If I didn't sell it, can I use it with a 72v kelly controller and a 138 qs engine? Not to keep it still and unused.

 

[GianlucaO]

I contacted the supplier to order a 3kW QS 138 70H motor and a KLS 7245H kelly motor controller. Meanwhile I'm using the 13-inch QS 273 engine I had on the Aprilia SR50R








I did this because the original engine was 18 volts and the batteries had to be replaced. My idea now is to order the motor and controller by December and mount them on a Piaggio transmission. But I have a doubt, how can I extend the axis of the electric motor (color black) to make the motor pulley (pink) coincide with the rear axle pulley (red color)? In brown I highlighted the plate that I will have to create to couple the Piaggio transmission arm with the QS engine.




thanks for your help.

 

[tylerwatts]

Hello Gianluca
Nice plans, I am thinking to do the same with my Italjet Dragster.

For connecting the motor to pulley, I will try to use crank of the engine, cut off and many weld a boss to slide the motor shaft into crank with a key way, does this make sense? I will try to draw it also.

I also thought of using QS middrive kit and haven't decided. Dragster has a strange rest shock mount but like new model's design.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[stan.distortion]

Have you checked the swinging arm kits from QS? It looks like you'd need a lot of engineered parts to mount the 138 70H on your existing swinging arm.

http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read/QSMOTOR%203000W%205000W%20138%2070H%20electric%20motorbike%20mid%20drive%20motor%20for%20electric%20motorcycle/612.html

 

[tylerwatts]

I'm struggling to draw it, will use a sketch pad.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[tylerwatts]

I contacted the supplier to order a 3kW QS 138 70H motor and a KLS 7245H kelly motor controller. Meanwhile I'm using the 13-inch QS 273 engine I had on the Aprilia SR50R

View attachment 2



View attachment 1


I did this because the original engine was 18 volts and the batteries had to be replaced. My idea now is to order the motor and controller by December and mount them on a Piaggio transmission. But I have a doubt, how can I extend the axis of the electric motor (color black) to make the motor pulley (pink) coincide with the rear axle pulley (red color)? In brown I highlighted the plate that I will have to create to couple the Piaggio transmission arm with the QS engine.


View attachment 3

thanks for your help.

Hi Gianluca

Is your Zip already electric drive? Can you buy this motor casing you showed in the photo, Carter ? I am doing the same as you putting electric motor on my Italjet scooter.

Thanks

Cheers
Tyler

 

[GianlucaO]

Yes, the Zip was already electric (Aprilia SR was 2 stroke petrol). Original Zip has 18V Ni-Cd but now I have replaced with 22.2V lithium 6S 120Ah and I can do 65km / h (before 45). But yesterday I ordered the 4kW QS 138 90H Mid Drive motor (more powerful than the 3kW 138 70H) combined with a Votol EM150SP controller. Now I just have to wait a month or so. In the meantime I am trying to find a Piaggio motor of the Zip to open it and connect with a plate, which I have to draw on the computer and 3D print (as a test) and then create at the CNC, to connect the electric motor to the original Piaggio belt drive ( 2 stroke).

 

[tylerwatts]

That sounds great, just like I plan for my dragster. Please share the design when you know it.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[GianlucaO]

The motor arrived together with the EM150SP controller. Now I am waiting to produce the 7075 Aluminum (ergal) plates which I plan to anodize at home with sulfuric acid to protect against corrosion. I am attaching some photos of the engine with the plates to connect it to the original transmission:

Original 18v 1,5kW motor 4300rpm 8SHAUBMULLER):




Plates ABS 3D:







Original Transmission carter:











Motor QS 138 90H mounted on original transmission carter:

 

[GianlucaO]

Now I would like to ask for help to choose the bms ..... My battery will be 20s12p 72v 30Ah 18650 Li-ion. QS motor states that 86A continuous are needed to obtain the maximum speed. Can my battery handle a continuous 100A bms? Better one with 60A or 80A continuous? Which do I choose between "separate port" and "common port"? What differences are there?
Thank you.

My controller is VOTOL EM150SP with QS 138 90H motor.

 

[GianlucaO]

Hello is correct the wiring schede of precharger and of other all? Where i connect the High and low brake wires? And what Is the difference between elock and One Key repair?

 

[GianlucaO]

Motor QS 138 90H mounted. Now I have to prepare the wiring.





Now I would like to ask which Circuit Breaker to choose for my scooter. The Votol EM150SP controller has 150A continuous and 200A peak. I will also use an ANL 80V fuse (150 or 200A ??), the breaker I only need to disconnect the battery. What resistor do you recommend to put on the contactor for Precharge? The anderson connector must be a right 350A (175A seems like little to me) ?? How is 0 AWG (50mmq) or 00 AWG (70mmq) OFC wiring good?


I use a battery lithium 20S 72V 60Ah with BMS common port (Charge/Discharge) of 150A continuous / 300A peak.


is this scheme correct? thanks

 

[macribs]

Cool build. Will be coming back to see more.

 

[PITMIX]

I think your engine is way too powerful for this little scooter, but now that it's installed it's perfect. For your question on Elock and One Key, I think the difference is that one is used for the kickstand and the other for the key switch.