New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[Harold in CR]

Hyena, could you elaborate a little more on this info ??

they were regular H35s just in a really low speed wind.

I'm about to do a double wide carcass of H35's and would like to know what wind you were talking about ??

I would like to travel max, about 80Kph and have GOOD hill climbing ability. Voltage around 72-84V and all the battery ahr I can afford.

16"-17" Moto wheel in the rear.

I'm thinking an 8 X 8 would be good, but, what ga. wire ??

Thanks for any suggestions

Harold in CR

 

[Trackman417]

Hyena, could you elaborate a little more on this info ??

they were regular H35s just in a really low speed wind.

I'm about to do a double wide carcass of H35's and would like to know what wind you were talking about ??

I would like to travel max, about 80Kph and have GOOD hill climbing ability. Voltage around 72-84V and all the battery ahr I can afford.

16"-17" Moto wheel in the rear.

I'm thinking an 8 X 8 would be good, but, what ga. wire ??

Thanks for any suggestions

Harold in CR

Look up HS60 in the search menu.
There is a guy by the alias andje. I know he is currently working on a double width HX motor ask him. He should know what wire he is using by now, being that his project is at a three to four month stand still.
Hope this helps

 

[Hyena]

Hyena, could you elaborate a little more on this info ??

I'm about to do a double wide carcass of H35's and would like to know what wind you were talking about ??[/quote]
The super high torque ones are only good for going slow up steep hills and what not.
If you want to do a double H35 it's a heap of work but will give good performance. You'll have to work out the winding for a double wide motor, you can't just make it the same as what ever it was before)

I would like to travel max, about 80Kph and have GOOD hill climbing ability. Voltage around 72-84V and all the battery ahr I can afford.

If you want that speed in a small wheel from that voltage you'll need a high speed wind and even the H4080 probably wouldn't cut it. With a double wide H35 you'll have enough copper to get the torque I suppose but I'm not sure on the winding. I would think 8x8 is too slow but I dont have any experience with how custom windings predict speed. Maybe liveforphysics can help ?

 

[Harold in CR]

Thanks guys.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Very slightly off topic- I hear you guys talking about "Double Wide" this and that.......I thought the height of the motor dictated torque, which is what the slim but tall magic pie had going for it, no? {all other things, such as amps, winds, etc, being equal?}

 

[Trackman417]

Very slightly off topic- I hear you guys talking about "Double Wide" this and that.......I thought the height of the motor dictated torque, which is what the slim but tall magic pie had going for it, no? {all other things, such as amps, winds, etc, being equal?}

I guess you could say that the height of the motor dictates torque. However only to a point there has go to be a point where the height of the motor becomes more of a burden. If the higher the motor meant the more torque why aren't all hub motors like golden motors or wider?
In general from what I have came to know is that the wider the motor the more torque it has because of all of the copper in between the teeth of the stator doing more work along with the wider magnets.
A good way to increase torque on a motor, without making it wider, is to add amps. Adding more amps will help you accelerate quicker and more amps may give you a higher top speed because of the extra power your motor has.
The more winds you have the less top speed your motor has and the more torque your motor has as a trade off.
Well I tried my best to explain things HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[Bazaki]

Something different, but almost all Crystalyte motors that I have seen, X5304, X5305 and lot's of HS3540 and HT3525 are " wubbeling" if you lift the rear wheel of you bike and you let the wheel spin for about 25 km/h you can see that wheel is not 100 % straight in line, like if the shaft is bended which is not the problem I believe.

Once I replaced my own bearings and after that it is much worse, I have a 160mm discbrake at the rear and the disc is touching the brake pads even I center the caliper because of this wubbeling.
Can it be that the bearing is not 100% centered in the cover ? ( housing )

So stock out of the box they all do this, some more some less but what causes this and is it fixable ?

 

[Nanoha]

Something different, but almost all Crystalyte motors that I have seen, X5304, X5305 and lot's of HS3540 and HT3525 are " wubbeling" if you lift the rear wheel of you bike and you let the wheel spin for about 25 km/h you can see that wheel is not 100 % straight in line, like if the shaft is bended which is not the problem I believe.

Once I replaced my own bearings and after that it is much worse, I have a 160mm discbrake at the rear and the disc is touching the brake pads even I center the caliper because of this wubbeling.
Can it be that the bearing is not 100% centered in the cover ? ( housing )

So stock out of the box they all do this, some more some less but what causes this and is it fixable ?

My x5304 does this when accelerating hard, the disk rotor rubs against the caliper pretty loudly but once it gets going its fine. Pretty strange problem. Seems like the torque is not perfectly perpendicular to the axle or something. :?

 

[Trackman417]

Maybe you disc rotor is not alined or torqued evenly? That would be my guess. Happened to my motor until I got some pretty rad BB7's and a bigger rotor professionally installed. No more squeeking.

 

[John in CR]

Something different, but almost all Crystalyte motors that I have seen, X5304, X5305 and lot's of HS3540 and HT3525 are " wubbeling" if you lift the rear wheel of you bike and you let the wheel spin for about 25 km/h you can see that wheel is not 100 % straight in line, like if the shaft is bended which is not the problem I believe.

Once I replaced my own bearings and after that it is much worse, I have a 160mm discbrake at the rear and the disc is touching the brake pads even I center the caliper because of this wubbeling.
Can it be that the bearing is not 100% centered in the cover ? ( housing )

So stock out of the box they all do this, some more some less but what causes this and is it fixable ?

My x5304 does this when accelerating hard, the disk rotor rubs against the caliper pretty loudly but once it gets going its fine. Pretty strange problem. Seems like the torque is not perfectly perpendicular to the axle or something. :?

Interesting. It must be caused by the angled stator laminations and the resulting angled coils creating some off center torque.

On another note, it's great that Xlyte is finally stepping up to 40mm stators. If they start offering a 2 turn you guys will finally catch up to my 3.5 year old cargo bike, since it's had a quality built 51 slot 24 pole motor since 2008. BTW I got those motors with controller an ancillaries like DC/DC converter moto rim and spokes for $125 plus shipping, so don't let Kenny stick it to you on the wholesale price. Unfortunately that design is old tech now and I'm on to better things, though I'll still finish up a 2wd with the old motors that should be fun, and a good cargo bike upgrade.

 

[Nanoha]

Maybe you disc rotor is not alined or torqued evenly? That would be my guess. Happened to my motor until I got some pretty rad BB7's and a bigger rotor professionally installed. No more squeeking.

It shouldn't matter because the problem only happens when I accelerate hard.
As John in CR states, it probably has something to do with the laminations but I thought the bearings should prevent that from happening. :?

 

[Trackman417]

Found this on ebikes.ca website

My motor has a wobble when it spins, is this normal?

Yes, the manufacturing tolerances of the Crystalyte are such that the hub rarely spins perfectly true. It is none the less possible to lace the rim to spin true and centred even if the hub has some wobble.

Another possible explanation

 

[Bazaki]

Almost all HT and HS motors do wobble, some more some less. Mine even wobbles the disc against the caliper, so my rim is straight but the HUB itself is wobbling and I don't think it is fixable.

I wonder why, I mean there is a shaft with bearings so that should be absolutely true right ?
Then what part or construction makes it wobble ?

It is not a big deal since I never notice it while riding.

 

[Harold in CR]

Didn't John in CR make the point, that, if anyone removes a side cover, it should be marked first, so the screw holes get lined up correctly, to avoid wobbling ??

You might take out all the side cover screws, 1 side at a time, and rotate the cover, 1 hole at a time, to see if it gets better or worse. If you correct the wobbling, no need to do the other side. No need to remove the side covers, just rotate them.

 

[John in CR]

The effect I was speculating about would only be on the X5 style motors. Do the other models really wobble? At no load WOT with just a raw motor, no wheel? The old style 9C I have had horribly out of balance covers that I was able to correct by machining down where the material was 2mm thicker, but the holes cut in the cast AL piece for the bearings were perfectly centered relative to the lip for the magnet retaining ring, so no wobble, just some vibration till I fixed the issue. Without something off center there can't be a wobble. A wobbly motor should be a factory reject. I've never seen a wobble, and I've had about 20 different makes.

Are you sure you guys aren't talking some left/right drift. That I have seen, and will make a brake disc rub, primarily in turns. A number of hubbies I've seen have a spring washer or a pair of spring washers between the bearing and in interior shoulder on the axle on each side. They're to keep everything spinning freely and the rotor centered relative to the stator. The result is that the rotor can drift very slightly left or right when under a side load, but it still spins on a plane perpendicular to the axle and no wobble.

I guess bad enough bearings could result in wobble. I've had a bad bearing develop before, where the bearing had some play in it. There was no grinding or wobbling or noise, but if I pushed on the edge of the wheel it would go slightly off plane. While riding the only thing I noticed was a strange tracking shift sometimes as I crossed over the crown of the road or other uneven parts of the road, but that was on my motor with about 15k miles on a heavy hardtail that took some pretty hard pothole shots over the years, so a worn out bearing was to be expected.

I'm sorry, but if a new motor actually wobbles, that's inexcusable. If true, I feel even luckier never to have followed the masses.

John

 

[waynebergman]

Wow John I notice you have posted 8000 responses. Thanks on behalf of many who have been helped by your observations and input.

 

[Trackman417]

Wow John I notice you have posted 8000 responses. Thanks on behalf of many who have been helped by your observations and input.

+ 1 mate!
Congratulations! :wink:

On another note I say we get a H4080 group buy started right here in America!
Waynebergman gets free shipping on this congratulatory occasion (JK)

 

[coldfusion594]

I did not want to start a whole new thread... but since this thread deals with Crystalyte motors...

Is the HS3540 better or worse than the X5305 in terms of speed and reliability?

 

[auraslip]

Is the HS3540 better or worse than the X5305 in terms of speed and reliability?

It's half the motor.

 

[GCinDC]

I did not want to start a whole new thread... but since this thread deals with Crystalyte motors...

Is the HS3540 better or worse than the X5305 in terms of speed and reliability?

perfect use for the ebikes.ca simulator!

5303 is quite a bit heavier. i can't speak to it's other qualities. if you want to pull a bus, you'll need a 5303, but if you're looking for a good motor for less than 3kw, the hs3540 is an excellent value.

 

[Trackman417]

5303 is quite a bit heavier. i can't speak to it's other qualities. if you want to pull a bus, you'll need a 5303, but if you're looking for a good motor for less than 3kw, the hs3540 is an excellent value.

I think you got your 5303 and your 5305 mixed up. If you want to TRY and haul a bus and, while your at it, burn out your motor and controller you'll need the 5303.

 

[bikesport1000]

Has anybody received a new HS or HT recently? If positive: Is there any change in design meanwhile e.g. to avoid the motor suicide by phase cable cutting'?

 

[John in CR]

Has anybody received a new HS or HT recently? If positive: Is there any change in design meanwhile e.g. to avoid the motor suicide by phase cable cutting'?

If they haven't fixed that after a year, then a boycott should be started immediately.

 

[sn0wchyld]

Has anybody received a new HS or HT recently? If positive: Is there any change in design meanwhile e.g. to avoid the motor suicide by phase cable cutting'?

If they haven't fixed that after a year, then a boycott should be started immediately.

given the latest and 'greatest' 5400's came out with similar wire cutting issues I wouldn't count on anything having changed...

 

[Trackman417]

Has anybody received a new HS or HT recently? If positive: Is there any change in design meanwhile e.g. to avoid the motor suicide by phase cable cutting'?

If you buy the H-series motors from ebikes.ca and methtek, you receive them with the wire cut mod, no need to do it your self.
I recently purchased the HS-3540 from ebikes.ca and I like the motor.... A lot