New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[voicecoils]

Check out Nanoha's lacing 8)

Wheelsmith DH13 (13/14ga) black spokes sitting in newly drilled flange holes.

My HT is laced exactly like his HS, and it will be interesting to see how they hold up compared to others using generic Chinese 12ga spokes in the large stock flange holes.


How many mods will the Crystalyte H series undergo by E-S community? I can't think of another recent hubmotor so readily torn apart by everyone straight out of the box :lol:

 

[methods]

I've removed the seals (the 2 plastic covers + rubber seal) so if anyone has any idea on how to rain proof it please let me know :?

Yes, drill large holes.
We have been through this many times over the years... rain proofing these = FAIL. Even if you manage to make it air tight any moisture that is trapped in there will just create a mini rain forest and rust everything to hell.

If you cant beat them, join them....

If you cant keep the water out (and trust me, you cant) then let it out! Once your motor gets up to temp any water present will vaporize and waft away.

-methods

 

[John in CR]

Another reason not to try to waterproof is that when the motor is hot and it starts to cool from rain, the cooling air will contract resulting in lower pressure causing the motor to suck water and/or wet air in through whatever tiny hole there is.

These motor will run even with water in them, so really about the best you can do is make them water resistant, and the main part that starts to rust over time is the edges of the stator laminations. Though I haven't tried it, a number of members swear by CorrosionX as the product to rust proof a hubmotor if you do open it.

 

[Arlo1]

Here is how I water proofed mine :wink:

 

[Nanoha]

I'm tempted to drill the covers but is there much point considering I'm only running 700w average?
I used a stock 9c in all kinds of weather for 3 years and it doesn't seem to have any problems...

 

[methods]

Probably not.
If it ain't broke dont fix it :wink:

-methods

 

[Nanoha]

Probably not.
If it ain't broke dont fix it :wink:

-methods

But we're talking about the HS35 here! :lol:

 

[Arlo1]

Probably not.
If it ain't broke dont fix it :wink:

-methods

But we're talking about the HS35 here! :lol:

Dude the quality inside this is a step above my X5!

 

[methods]

Yea... the HS35 really is a much better design than the X5's. You guys got burnt by a few early production issues but with time the HS35 will prove to be far superior in its design.

Cheaper
Lighter
Better tolerances
Better clearances
Easier to assemble
Comparable power

Just wait until we release our water cooling rig

-methods

 

[Arlo1]

Just wait until we release our water cooling rig

-methods

My fans are on order! But I would like to see what you have planed.

I just feel there is a limit to how much trouble I will go to, to get a frock motor to last. I only plan to make a comuter not a race bike. I will use a RC motor for a race bike!

 

[RVD]

ok i bought a 3 jaw puller and it worked to get the cover off...sort of.

i stuck the 3 jaw puller on the side with the freewheel and it worked to pull the cover away from the motor on the other side (where the wire is).

however, i still can't get the cover off the wire side.

As you can see in this picture, the cover is no longer flush with the motor. However, I still can't get the cover off. How does this cover come off so that I can examine the phase wires?

Edit: fixed the image

 

[Hyena]

Your picture isn't working but you probably have to pull the other side cover off the bearing. Flip the puller around, putting its jaws under the lose edge of the cover you want to remove with the center pin tightening down on the axle and it should pop the cover off the bearing.

Nice work on redrilling the motor voicecoils! I guess it only 700 watts odd going through it it shouldn't be a problem, especially if largely street ridden.
Who puts a measly 700w through one of these things though ?

Having just rewired my DOA HS35 I'd recommend you don't pull it apart if you don't need to. Even just removing the side covers thought the tight hole clearance is enough to skin most of the insulation off the wiring. And for reference, 3x 12ga teflon phase wires + the original halls don't QUITE fit back though the stock wiring exit. I tried and rubbed the insulation off the teflon before I even got the side cover all the way back on.
A slightly oversized axle and bearings would make these things so much better.

 

[RVD]

thanks hyena, i'll try that.

 

[voicecoils]

Nice work on redrilling the motor voicecoils! I guess it only 700 watts odd going through it it shouldn't be a problem, especially if largely street ridden.
Who puts a measly 700w through one of these things though ?

He said 'average' not peak

It will need to be proved in the field, but I will be testing a theory that a well built wheelmotor can handle high power with 14ga or 13/14ga butted spokes. I plan to run 5kW peak through mine.

I also think Crystalyte's hubmotor flange holes are WAY to large even for 12ga spokes. It makes the motors easy to lace up, but movement between the spoke and flange hole is not ideal.

 

[Arlo1]

I also think Crystalyte's hubmotor flange holes are WAY to large even for 12ga spokes. It makes the motors easy to lace up, but movement between the spoke and flange hole is not ideal.

Yeh holy shit I laced mine up with 12g and its like the spokes are to thin.... I Think I will just get 11g next time!

 

[voicecoils]

Yeh holy shit I laced mine up with 12g and its like the spokes are to thin.... I Think I will just get 11g next time!

Johnrobholmes also talked about this issue, here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20548#p299601

The H series motors I have come across have flange holes that are 4.1-4.2mm in diameter.

I contacted a motorcycle wheelbuilder who recommended at least 10ga. 9ga might be better.

But, the motorcycle spokes were quite expensive and add a fair bit of weight to the wheel.

That's 2 of the reasons why I'm trying this new approach. I might make a separate thread though for those that want to continue the discussion.

 

[Nanoha]

Probably not.
If it ain't broke dont fix it :wink:

-methods

But we're talking about the HS35 here! :lol:

Dude the quality inside this is a step above my X5!

But at least with my x5 I didn't have to open it to check if the winding terminations
could potentially short against the side covers, remove the seals to prevent them cutting
my phase wires then trying to figure out how to rainproof it :?

Although apart from those issues, the motor has been more fun then the 9x7 I'm replacing.
ie. disk brakes, more speed and for some reason it seems to be even quieter!

 

[RVD]

What is the primary function of the cover anyway? Is it simply to keep the dirt/sand out? i.e., for those who drill holes into the cover, is there any concern of compromising the structural integrity of the motor?

 

[grindz145]

What is the primary function of the cover anyway? Is it simply to keep the dirt/sand out? i.e., for those who drill holes into the cover, is there any concern of compromising the structural integrity of the motor?

It also holds the hub together... If you weakened it enough it could deform and the stator would crash into the magnets. I don't know what anyone has come close to this considering that they are pretty overbuilt.

 

[bigmoose]

What is the primary function of the cover anyway? Is it simply to keep the dirt/sand out? i.e., for those who drill holes into the cover, is there any concern of compromising the structural integrity of the motor?

It is the primary load path from the tire contact patch to the axle, then to your frame, up to the saddle and the handlebars. The side covers are, shall we say, critical structural elements!

 

[methods]

My shipment landed

* Sensorless 72V 40A controllers with true-CA taps and ebikes.ca compatible wire termination
* HT3525 in 26" with sensors, 35mm stators, "corrected" later models without wire channel issues
* HT3540 in 26"
* HT3540 in 20"

I inspected the controllers and they look great. Even though you guys have had issues (rushed early production issues really...) Kenny really is on top of quality control. Every controller was in its own bag, inside of its own box, neat and tidy, with no heat-sink goop all over the place. Very professional job. Worth the extra dough.

I an going to go grab 10 of the motors and inspect them. I am excited!

Before anyone asks - no you cant buy one
I will be selling kits only and when they are ready I will advertise those in the For Sale section :wink:

-methods

 

[theRealFury]

Well,

Just goes to show that even if you think you have got a good one out of a bad batch... its probably not true. a Long story cut short but i have not had a puncture for over 10 years (i know, unbelieveable but its true) but at the weekend i got 2 in the same day!! So i took the rear wheel off the bike and thought, while i have the wheel off ill just take a peak at the phase wires and see if they are still ok by the axle... well the were not, the outer casing of the wire was cut clean through and is so soft it almost crumbles as you touch it. The 3 phase wires inside were in bad shape, 2 of them were showing bare wires inside and the other was pretty bashed up, i really dont know how they didnt short to be honest.

I didnt have any suitable wire to redo the phase wires unfortunately so decided just to bandaid it and put it back together for now, The inside of the motor seems quite tidy and good quality, its just a shame that the phase wire sheeth they use is more like butter than silicone or plastic. A couple of pics of my motor opened up. Luckily i had no issues with the screws and they all came out with a standard screwdriver. I didnt have a gear puller so it took me the best part of an hour to work the sides off and get a good look at the motor.

Here is the motor, 3 months old and already showing signs of rust...

Here is the worst of the phase wires, the insulation is almost completely worn away.

Another wire worn through...

a full pic of it here...

So let this be a lesson, even if you think its working fine, its only a matter of time before it goes poof... i got ~1000 miles out of mine so far but im surprised it lasted.

 

[methods]

I don't know what anyone has come close to this considering that they are pretty overbuilt.

I have probably removed more material than anyone on 9C and X5 covers with never a failure. This being in both 20" and 26" wheels and (of course) 100V 100A. This is not a concern for even the most marginally rational people.

-methods

 

[methods]

You guys sure sound like you are having a lot of trouble removing those covers... Here is how I do it:


1) Keep the motor in the wheel! You need something to leverage it with
2) Remove the screws by using a *high quality* bit, electric drill, and all your weight. Really push hard while you slowly turn, they will come out
3) Get two thin screwdrivers - those tiny flat-heads used for tinkering with electronics.
4) Set the motor with the wires UP, remove all nuts and washers
5) Tap them in at the seal about 60 degrees apart. Go slow and easy, tap, tap, tap. It is an elastic seal, but when it goes it will just POP!
6) No worry about hitting the copper if you go in straight
7) Pad the axle on the freewheel side - you are going to be grinding it into the ground
8 ) Now just put your knees on the tire/rim, grab the wire side axle, and start rocking back and forth, side to side
9) The secret is to "unjam" the stator - so pay attention to the angle of the axle vs the wheel - line them up straight and it will pop right out
10) when the wheel hits the ground pull the stator up and out of the way - otherwise it will SNAP back together and pinch your weenie

Now you have it apart - you can flip it over and repeat to do the other side.

To reassemble I usually heat up the cover with a heat gun and (if it comes free) cool the bearing in the "Jet freeze" drawer of my fridge

The key to all of this is breaking the seal on the cover. You can yank all day, but so long as that thin coating of adhesive is still bonded you are not going to do a damn thing. Use the amazing leverage available to you by just tap-tap-taping in a tiny tool to break that seal. :wink:

-methods

 

[methods]

Sorry... I dont know what to tell you boys, I just cracked one of these open in 3 minutes flat :lol:
Did it right here in my office chair with noth'n special

View attachment 9

You have to have just the right bit... this one kicks ass.

View attachment 8

I start wedging it open with a tiny, tiny flat head if I care about the finish... but..... why would I care about the finish?
These work fine

View attachment 7

I steered you wrong a bit in the last post. You actually want to start with the wires DOWN, remove all the fasteners on the opposite side, then when you pop it out you gain access to the wire side.

Anyhow....

Before popping out the wire side I cleaned out all the silicone. That stuff is really bonded to the black sleeve (which is just for aesthetics you understand... the toughness is in the woven cover). I tore the black one a little bit while clearing out the goop, but it makes no difference.

NOTE: IF you attempt to remove the covers without first removing the silicone you WILL scrape the wires on the way out... I suspect some people may actually be causing the damage during dis-assembly

Anyhow - my batch of motors do not have the cut wire issue
The wire sleeve does not even have so much as a nick in it

View attachment 6

My axle is machined down about 4mm.... how deep is the grove on the motors you guys have?

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And of course the stator is 35mm and halls are installed

View attachment 1



I get it that you early adopters got burned.... I did too.... but just look at this motor. Anybody who has been in this game for a while KNOWS that the quality here is AWESOME. Dont mix up early production issues with quality issues. Everything about this motor rocks - even the rim is wider. I am SUPER STOKED right now

This one is going on my trike :wink:

-methods