Newbie here

[johndoe]

Hey guys, what a great forum you have here. I have been reading for the past 2 days and learned so much already!

So I finally feel like I need some help.

I would like to put together my first e-bike. The problem is that I don't have too much $$ as I am still a student (Max $700 on this). However, from reading various threads it seems like I have no choice but to splurge on a LiFePO4 battery as that is the key to the set-up.

I am leaning towards the 36V 15Ah from Ping.

The rest I have no idea. I already have an old bike that I ride it says 'Cro-Mo' on the frame. So I believe it is not aluminum and would be good enough for the conversion?
--------------
Let me tell you about where I ride:

I live in NYC and will be riding around Manhattan and occasionally to Jersey to enjoy the Parks and trails there.
There aren't too many hills but I would like the bike to be able to climb nicely as steep a slope as possible.

I have no idea how to find info on the % elevation of where I ride, is that info google somewhere?
I will also occasionally take the bike to Pennsylvania which has steeper hills so I don't want to run into problems there.

Also, I want the motor to be as quiet/silent as possible (don't want to attract the attention of the police here).

So any suggestions to fit my budget? I was thinking of just getting a brushless motor on ebay from China. Should be good enough for my needs, no? Unless you guys can help me figure out how to make my budget with better quality components.

All of my needs I will say assuming I don't want to pedal (of course I will pedal but that would be a bonus).

Thanks so much for your advice and help.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

hi, welcome & excuse the bloodbath.
never a dull moment around here 2b sur.

i ride a prebuilt so can't offer much by way of suggestion when it comes to assembling a kit.
actually, i'll be joining u shortly in the newbie ranks in preparing for my first conversion as soon as my methods controllers arrive (hint, hint).

just wanted to point u to a couple of threads that may prove useful.
in case u might have missed it on here since it recently got moved, how to build a cheap ebike.
and some news about NY Legalizing E-Bikes?

 

[dogman dan]

One good way to shave some bux off the cost is to buy a used motor from somebody trustworthy. Unfortunately the good deals on our for sale section tend to sell in minuites, while others( not so great a deal) are all that's left. So it takes persistince and patience to check the for sale board 6 times a day for months.

The other cheap method would be to lurk on ebay for the cheapest possible deal, bearing in mind that when at least one component of the kit fails immediately you are looking at another long wait for the replacement. With shipping to china, you can easily end up spending twice what you thought it would be.

Your best bet is going to be to deal with a reputable dealer here in the US or Canada. The one close to you is E-Bikekit. They sell the 9 cont motor that is said to be real nice, and are now or will soon have rear motors. Thier lifepo4 battery should be a good one, it's not one made with tiny round cells.

Keeping it under 700 for new stuff will be tough, but under 1000 should be possible

Where you live stealth is going to be important so idealy get a rear hub. If you do end up with a front hub, then a smaller one, like a bafang or fusin gearmotor would be good. Most people see my front motor and think it's a wierd drum brake.

On the bike, steel is good for the motor mounting, and better still if the bike has bolt on wheels. Quick release hubs use a smaller cup on the dropout that often leads to a poor fit with the large nuts and washers of a motor. Cheap bikes tend to have more metal on the dropouts and motors bolt on easy.

Good luck, but really, if at all possible up the budget to $1000. If not, then you may need to make a compromise on the battery and motor. A bafang drawing 350 watts will not need as big a pingbattery as a 750 watt 9 continents or Aotema.

Edit.. http://www.e-bikekit.com/ $849 for a front hub kit with a lithium battery. I don't see the rear hubs yet there.

www.ebikes.ca is the great canada vendor. They have crystalyte motors like the 407 in rear motors.

Map my ride is a good place to look at ride routes and see what the grades and distances are. The grades are averaged, so the most accurate grades are when you map a small section of the ride, like 1 mile or less.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Welcome to the forum.

For stealth you're going to want a rear motor, and as silent as possable. That would be a Crystalyte 40X series motor. I would sugest a 408, rear mounted.
Propperly set up, a Crystalyte is hidden in plain sight like this:

The 9 Continents motor is supperior in a few ways, but it's larger, and noisier. it will get notced. the Crystalyte motors are quieter and smaller, and hide behind the chain guard or a disk brake rather well.

I would recomend a Ping for a cheap reliable battery, but as for a source on the motor, Ebay may be the best place to find a deal that fits within your budget. Realy you need about $1k to make it work.

 

[floatingdog]

Drunkskunk,

Tell us about your battery pack and its contents. It looks really nice.

Thanks,

John

 

[Drunkskunk]

Thanks.
The bag is from Ebikes.ca. I use RC Lipo, and the bag will fit 6 5amp 5 cell packs, to make a 55V 10Ah pack. The batteries are only 50mm wide so the pack doesn't bulge .

I have 8 of the batteries. I normaly carry the other 2 in a bag on the seat post but I'm working on making a slightly larger bag to fit in the frame.

 

[johndoe]

Thanks for your help guys, awesome...

Unfortunately $700 is really all I can spend. Especially running the risk of it being stolen in NYC...
I originally thought I could make one for $500 but then bumped it to $700 which is really all I can spend, considering I still need to get a chain, u-lock, and a rack/bag...

From what I understand, the 9c is a geared motor, no? I was thinking of going with a gearless one for less maintenance and more importantly no noise.
Also, why do you guys recommend a rear-wheel set-up? Wouldn't that be harder to install (bike has 7 cogs). I was thinking of a simple front wheel replacement... Unfortunately the bike does have a quick-release front wheel.

How about going with a Cammy battery from ebay; this would free up some more $$ to spend on the motor? Unfortunately $700 is all I have to spend on the e-bike things Since I will need more money on the rack/bag/security... etc..

 

[Drunkskunk]

front wheel isn't stealth. The 9C is a gearless motor, and would be the first thing I would recomend to anyone except for those wanting stealth.
Its a 10 inch hub, no matter how well you disguise the wires that have to run along the frame and down the front fork, you can't hide a 10" drum on the front wheel. People will be able to tell there is something odd about your bike 500 yards away. Thats a bad thing in a state were all Ebikes are currently illegal.
In the rear, the cogs and the spoke guard, the derailer, the frame mounts, and any disk brake will help hide the motor. a 9C is still too large but a Clyte, Aetoma, or even the older Goldenmotoers will almost disapear from view.

Yes, they are harder to set up. But not that much harder, especialy with you having a 7 cogged rear gear already.

When I priced out shipping from Cammycc, it was more than from Ping for a total, but that depends on how you catch the deal on Ebay.


If you can wait for the law to change, and it looks like it might, Walmart offer's the iZip for $299. Its not the greatest bike ever built, but it's better than you would expect from walmart, or for that low of a price. But it is noisy, and not currently offered in new York.

 

[ecowheelz]

The E-BikeKit (9C) is a gearless direct drive motor...

If you're concerned about price, why not start out with cheaper / heavier SLA batteries? I know LiFePo4s are much better, but an SLA could get you through for a year until you can afford an upgrade. This way, you can get a nicer motor / setup and not worry about loosing quality because of your budget. Plus, it will help you get a feel for e-biking before investing the REALLY BIG $$$.

I didn't see anything about range in your post, but it sounds like casual trail riding. 12AH SLAs should handle 10-12 miles with a 20mph motor. Obviously, they're heavy and won't last as long. But they're cheap and you should get at least a year out of them depending on how often you ride and how hard you abuse them.

If price wasn't an option, I'd say go right for LiFePo4. But maybe SLAs would be a good way to start...

 

[floatingdog]

Look at the $70 rear Bafang (geared) at bmsbattery.com and one of their controllers. Shipping is high, but if you combine multiple items it averages lower. I think they can provide a throttle too, if you ask. Hopefully your donor bike has 36 spoke rims so you can reuse them. The Bafang won't be a speedster. Read Russell's posts to see if this sort of set up would suit you. He is a front hub guy, but his set up and descriptions will give you a good idea of what to expect in terms of performance.

Add up the $$ for the above and see what you have left for a battery.

 

[dogman dan]

Sla's are a good way to make it cheaper, but can be harder to mount stealthy. As I understand it, you need stealth for NYC since the bike won't be street legal?

You can get a bafang, which is a slightly louder gearmotor for pretty cheap from various sources. But then you may have some extra cost getting the wheel laced. Again, the smaller gearmotors do tend to go un noticed on front hubs since people think they are drum brakes. On the rear, they are just about invisible. A diskbrake rotor can hide one side even if the bike has rim brakes.

One option for making the battery cheaper is nicads from ebikes.ca which may be avaliable in the triangle shape. The frame mount battery really helps the balance of the bike. 8 ah nicads will give you about 8-12 mile range depending on speed.

Facts are facts though, a good size pingbattery is going to eat up a lot of your budget, so you'll be needing a great deal on a used motor or more money.

 

[TPA]

For the moment, Methods is the way to go!
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13804

 

[dogman dan]

Another option might be a front hub kit from world wide electric bikes. A fusin front hub gearmotor similar to a bafang including battery for $625. I can't say about the batteries since I didn't get one, but I tested the motor and liked it fine. It had some nice features including three modes of travel, with the slowest one getting up hills a bit better and a headlight included. See the review section for the whole details.

 

[johndoe]

hmm. interesting.

Okay guys I don't want to skimp too much on the motor and I want it to be gearless (maintenance free and SILENT).
So rear wheel. I'm assuming such a kit will come with cogs correct? It's 21-speed bike so I'm assuming the kit would need to come with 7 cogs (not sure of the actual word for each individual gear).

Also, what is the difference between a 24V and 36V. The ping batteries are much cheaper in 24V obviously... I am looking to go 20mph and mostly concerned with distance and climbing hills occasionally...

So which set up would you guys recommend? Thanks again for all of this help, I don't think I would be able to do this without you guys!

 

[DerekG]

Hill climbing plus 20 mph you need 36 volts. I have 36 right now and holding 20 on a flat is easy whereas up a hill you have to be ready to help it out a little if you want to keep the speed.

I don't think the motor comes with the cogs, you add your own Reason behind this is if it came with cogs then your derailer might not be compatible, etc and you would end up switching out a lot of parts to make it work.

 

[dogman dan]

Whether the rear motor comes with a freewheel, (cogs) or not will depend on the vendor. Sometimes a 9 speed cluster wont fit in the space left after the motor, but usually at least 5 will. The derailur would need some adjustments to use only 5 gears. Not to worry, you'll only use about 3 gears once motorized. Dont mess around with 24v, you can pedal faster without a motor than most 24v motors.

 

[johndoe]

I see, but I will e be able to mount the existing cogs I have currently to the new rim easily, correct?

 

[spinningmagnets]

ebikes.ca has $240 battery packs in triangle form. NiCD, 36V/8aH, charger is $50. Good starter pack in my opinion....

 

[JasonEBK]

Deleted. Thank you to all at ES.

 

[dnmun]

no reason to not use a front motor.

why worry about stealth? i never figured that out.

if you can get jason to do a deal with you that would be the best option.

there is no way to keep them from stealing it unless you keep it where they can't reach it so consider it a lifetime investment in transportation, and treat it as such.

some people sell the car and save the insurance and gas and upkeep costs.

i do just the opposite and have too many cars and too many motors. ebikes are the future.

 

[johndoe]

Jason,

Thank you so much. I actually emailed you guys earlier but haven't received a response yet.

What is your email so we can discuss this?
Also, unfortunately I have school from 7am-7pm this and next week which kinda sucks.
But let me know what is the best way to contact you. Thanks.

 

[johndoe]

So any recommendations you guys have for a reasonably priced kit, that is silent and will work well with the rear wheel?
I need it stealth because I don't want to attract the attention of thieves/ pedestrians, etc...

 

[MattDog]

Dude....you're getting some great advice here....

Just Craiglist the bike...http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=bicycles&catAbbreviation=sss&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

Cheap bikes (heavy bikes) are best...someone here already said that!

Bafang and Currie low wattage motors are super stealthy (small)...you could even pay a bike shop to weave one into a wheel for you...and it might be cheaper that buying a "kit".

SLAs that are 8ah or less are pretty small - I had 3 & 4 bat array in a small tool bag that I grommeted to the rear bike rack...and no one EVER figured out what was up...check out how cheap these are http://www.jupiterbatteries.com/Content-Public/Products/Page.asp- there's even a freakin' 2 year warranty...so who cares if they're JUNK.

A cheapy 20-30A controller and 36 or 48v throttle finishes your build...check http://www.allelectronics.com/ which is also heavily referenced here on this site....

 

[dogman dan]

On the stealth, aren't ebikes illegal in NYC or something?

As for theft, well, being in NYC is going to be a problem. Enough duct tape, bumper stickers etc, making it look like a homeless guys peice of crap is good, and removing the battery easily to take with you.

Who cares if pedestrians know you have a motor though? If cops ignore you, that's all you need, and making the bike look worthless.

You could hardly go wrong buying from the most local dealer when it's one as good as Jason. But an ol used motor and a cheap controller from ebay could shave a few bux off the deal. Jason's kit with battery is how I'd be going if I were you, if the few extra dollars could be scraped up. For sure go do a test ride. If you can be patient, maybe Jason can sell you something used or returned and refurbished eventually.

If you just can't scrape up the money, a fusin or bafang would be a good less expensive but more stealthy on the front motor, and the nicads from ebikes.ca are a good route to go. I have 48v nicads on one of my bike and they work really well. Just less range than a 15 ah ping, but much better than sla's. Use the lead only as a last resort. Holmes Hobby is a good place to get a bafang.

Mounting the freewheel on a motor hub takes a special tool your bike shop may not have, so try to get one with the freewheel on it. Ebikes.ca sells the tool to do it.

 

[ecowheelz]

Jason's got some "rebuilt" rear wheels... I bet he'd give you a good deal...