Newbie needs help with information

[steomi]

Hello all,

I have been wanting to get an e-bike kit, but am completely lost. So I figure to come to a place where people know the field. I have a lot of questions and I know there will be a lot of opinions, but I would like to hear them all. So thank you for taking the time to help me out. I am in Wisconsin and want to use it year round. I am looking more for distance so I know I will need to carry extra batteries along with charger and a bike kit for repairs. I am a 5' 8" 250 - 300 lbs 40year old man in HORRIBLE shape along with a bad knee. Will be using the throttle a lot at the beginning and as I get in better shape pedal more and more than just use the throttle for uphills (this is my goal). Well here are my questions.

1. Do I get a front or rear brushless hub motor preferably or something completely different.(for distance, durability, and all seasons including snow must be waterproof)

2. What batteries to get. (distance, also will be carrying extra batteries. would like to get about 100 miles.)

3. Compatible charger for batteries. (also needs to be portable so I am able to charge on the go. Coffee breaks lol)

4. Want to be able to hold 15 - 20 mph even up hills with very light peddling.

5. Life expectancy of motor you suggest (remember it will be year round, snow, rain, heat)

6. Recommended Bicycle for motor. (prefer something comfortable, and might have to hit a trial once and a while (will be buying used to keep cost down. I do know some about bikes. I used to disassemble them 20 years back and paint than reassemble))

Thats what I can think of right now to start I am sure I will have more questions as we go.

My budget is around the $1500.00 U.S. for the kit and batteries and about $300.00 U.S. for the bike. I do not like e-bay, I would rather do business with a company. I use local craigslist. (Milwaukee, Wisconsin)) able to see product and try before I buy). I guess I am looking for advice on all parts to get the best I can for the budget I have. This is a new concept for me so if I missed anything please add or ask. I just registered here so I will be coming on this form daily, so I will be able to communicate pretty well. So any insight on this will be very helpful. Thank you again for taking a look and helping me out on this grand new venture. It is going to feel good getting out again.

 

[Eujangles]

Hello all,

I have been wanting to get an e-bike kit, but am completely lost. So I figure to come to a place where people know the field. I have a lot of questions and I know there will be a lot of opinions, but I would like to hear them all. So thank you for taking the time to help me out. I am in Wisconsin and want to use it year round. I am looking more for distance so I know I will need to carry extra batteries along with charger and a bike kit for repairs. I am a 5' 8" 250 - 300 lbs 40year old man in HORRIBLE shape along with a bad knee. Will be using the throttle a lot at the beginning and as I get in better shape pedal more and more than just use the throttle for uphills (this is my goal). Well here are my questions.

1. Do I get a front or rear brushless hub motor preferably or something completely different.(for distance, durability, and all seasons including snow must be waterproof)

2. What batteries to get. (distance, also will be carrying extra batteries. would like to get about 100 miles.)

3. Compatible charger for batteries. (also needs to be portable so I am able to charge on the go. Coffee breaks lol)

4. Want to be able to hold 15 - 20 mph even up hills with very light peddling.

5. Life expectancy of motor you suggest (remember it will be year round, snow, rain, heat)

6. Recommended Bicycle for motor. (prefer something comfortable, and might have to hit a trial once and a while (will be buying used to keep cost down. I do know some about bikes. I used to disassemble them 20 years back and paint than reassemble))

1. If you are travelling through snow and such, I would reccommend a front hub as you can pedal to assist this making for 2 wheel drive to give you better traction in bad weather. The most waterproofed controller I have heard of is the one that comes with the ezee kit. However, I am pretty ignorant about non-hub motor technology so it might be of interest for you to look up r/c or friction drives as well. I use a 9C front hub that I am very happy with.

2. I'm not going to lie...100 miles is a lot. I'm no expert but that sounds to me like you would need to be packing 40ah or more of batteries to be able to accomplish that. I think you should definitely have a regen controller and look into a fast charger and plan your routes such that you might be able to stop for charges occasionally. For your purposes I would suggest at least a 48v 25ah battery. You can carry around extra batteries if you like, but that's a lot of weight to be pulling and if you are trying to get in shape by pedalling, thats not the best way to do it. Oh, and some kind of lithium chemistry should be a must for what you are looking for.

3. Most lithium-ion battery packs will come with a bms and charger. As I mentioned above, you might want to upgrade to a faster charger (5-6 amp).

4. a 48v battery should come close to that, if you are looking to go 20mph even up a very steep hill, you are looking at a whole different animal (60v or something like that). Again this would greatly increase the weight of your bike and would make pedalling more unpleasant.

5. Not sure to be honest what the life expectancy of my motor is (or of similar products). Some people on here have stated to have logged quite a few miles though. The hub motor isn't actually super expensive to replace if down the road it has stopped functioning.

6. Something with good flat dropouts, and a strong frame/forks. If you really are intent on carrying around a ton of batterries with you, you might want to consider an xtracycle conversion as well, however that would certainly blow your $300 bike budget (though I feel you have overestimated the cost of the electric components at $1500).

As faras suppliers go, I wholeheartedly reccommend ebikes.ca, as would most everyone on this forum.

Good luck!

 

[steomi]

Eujangles, Thank you for a quick reply.
Yeah I thought it would be a little radical for the 100 miles. I was just figuring a way where I wont have a 15 mile restriction and if I wanted to be out all day I could. Thanks on the front or rear. I thought I would have more traction on the rear but I see what you mean by having 2 wheel drive also more control as I think about it. I was thinking of LiFePO4 batteries and thats why my budget went high on the components. I know those are not cheap but seem to be the best. What fast charger would you suggest? and would it be compatible with most LiFePO4 batteries.

So from ground up look for a bike with flat drop outs, along with being steel. A front motor (what wattage, durability, weatherproof, Make, Model, and such). Strong battery (lithium-ion guessing LiFePO4 would be best choice) 48v 25ah x2. Wow that was awesome help so far. Eujangles thanks. This is easer than i thought. I think I am makeing it more complicated because I don't want to waste money. For goin green is good for our environment but is still supposed to be good for our pocket books. I have always believe in buy once buy right and with this I am soooo clueless. but I am learning. There are a lot of front motors.... how do I figure whats best to ok to worse... wow this is a bigger market than I thought (which is good). I think I am still making this harder than what it is but believe me I REALLY do appreciate your help

 

[BikeFanatic]

There are kits out there from Ebikes.ca and ebikekit.com those are trusted vendors that I have purchased from in the past. Check out ebikes.ca for the 9C hub motors, I think rear motors work well in the snow, and are a lot of fun, I use a studded tire in the front in winter.

48 volts is a good voltage, 25 amp minimum controller, 20 amp is OK but with your extra weight I think 25 is good.
If you check the for sale section here you can get a good deal occasionally. For batteries ping sells a 48 volt 20 amp hour
it is expensive though. I get 15-30 miles out of my ping If you go fast then you use twice as much battery capacity as going slow. And in the winter i get less capacity as well. ? due to the cold I think.

 

[dogman dan]

I can't agree more with the above post, about the vendors and the 9c motor. Yes, there are better ways, but not much in the way of easier.

So you wanna go 100 miles? That's a lot of battery. Two 48v 15 ah batteries will carry in a pannier Ok, but it's still a lot of weight. 30 pounds. My range would be aobut 60-70 miles on that, but I weigh 180 and have good legs. A very reasonable expectation would be 20 miles range no pedaling, on moderate hills or flat, out of one 48v 15 ah lithium battery.

Pingbattery.com you can trust. Two batteries will blow your budget, so get just one for now. Get the 5 amp charger with it, and you can fully charge in 3.5 hours. An hour of charging on the road will get you 5-10 more miles. Other battery sellers may have different cells, that can't take the discharge rate as well as pings. So if you go that route, buy a 20 ah.


Carrying that much battery is hard, so a big bike with a large triangle space can be good. A 5 speed beach cruiser, or an entry level MTB like a Trek 820 would be good choices for a front hub. The trek has a steel front shock fork. Steel is good for hubmotors, alloy is risky. With a bike like that, you can carry one battery in the triangle, and the other on a rear rack. If you really are going to go for a century bike, a front hub will help with the balance. You'll be packing 15 pounds of battery in the triangle, and 30 more on the rear rack, so a front hub instead of a rear will help with that.

If you want a bike with full suspension, one that makes a good ebike at reasonable cost is the Mongoose Blackcomb. Use a rear hub with this bike. You can order one shipped to your local wallmart. Carrying the battery on that one is different though, You'd have to build boxes on the side of the frame, and carry a different type of battery in it. Not exactly for noobs. It's not hard though, to build stuff to carry one pingbattery on a rear rack on this bike, for 20 mile range.

One good option for huge range is a trailer to carry the battery. Then 50 pounds of lithium is not a problem for the balance of the bike.

Your budget of $1500 is spot on for a bike with 20-30 mile range at 20-25 mph, using one hubmotor kit, one 48v 15 ah battery, and one fairly decent bike in the $300 price range.

Unfortunately, with your weight, 15 mph up hills is not a reasonable expectation for $1500. But for about $2000-2500 you could build a blackcomb that did 20 mph up hills, and 45 mph on the flat. But only for about 10 miles or less.

If you have very steep hills to ride up, you could overheat a 9 continent motor pretty quick with your weight. If your speed drops below 10mph climbing, the hubmotor will start making more heat than motion. More volts could help with that, using the matching controller.

Take a good look at what John in CR has done. He's about your size, and he flies! A more powerfull motor may be best for you. Perhaps a crystalyte 5304. But then you need better batteries than ping. This option puts you on an illegal unregistered motorcycle though.

 

[steomi]

Wow, dogman Thanks. Yeah I have noticed the 100 mile was a huge reach now. I see I was dreaming like most noob doing this. I think no that I have a little insight I can be more realistic with something. I do like the idea of a front to start make it easy for me to learn the trade I guess. I appreciate the bike ideas. I have see the trek and Blackcomb on CL a few times. and not at a bad price. So now I guess I have an idea on a bike, front, battery (batteries will come later), charger, and controller. I have to be missing something here... or is that it?

 

[steomi]

I was looking at e-bikekit and saw their set up.
Electric Bike Conversion System - LiFePO4 Battery

Price: $1169.00

Product ID: EBK-CS2807F
Order
Front or Rear Wheel: Front
Wheel Size: Not sure yet due to I am looking for compatible bike.
Select Throttle Type: Split-Twist
Upgrade Options: 3 Speed Switch (15.00)
Select LiFePO4 Battery: 36v 10ah Prismatic 12 - 34 (to start and than upgrade to 48v 25ah most likely x2)
Select LiFePO4 Charger: 3.5 Amp 2.5 hr (94.00) but will this work on other batteries the same would be my concern or should I just not get this ad purchase something different

Also what concerns should I have with this or should I go to ebikes or do I build one and have them ship it. There are so many choices for a noob to figure out. I really, really appreciate this. I know I keep saying, but you all are awesome for taking the time out to help. The learning is fun, but I think I will enjoy the teaching when I get your stage of this even more.

 

[steomi]

Also if it would be easier for any of us to communicate I can be contacted on my facebook if you use it at http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1505253534
I have that connected with me always. It good to stay in contact with people who know what they are talking about sometimes Thanks again

 

[dogman dan]

That's a great starting point, but for me the batteries are too small. I just live quite a ways from work. So I get larger size, 48v batteries to use with the kit. At 48v, you get up hills better. Because you are big, hills will be harder, and you don't pedal strong. So 48v would be best for you. The kit controlller is fine to use with 48v without modifications.

The kits are not too hard to install, but a few pics of the bike forks sent to us here before you start can help you avoid the usuall newbie mistakes.