newbie only got 30 k's out of brand new hub motor

dmould66

10 mW
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
31
Location
nsw australia earth
hi
im new on here and to ev's,ive just converted my first trike with a 500 watt 24v brushless chinese hub motor of unknown make i bought on ebay, when i was putting it together i wasnt sure my two 20a/h batteries looked big enough but i shouldnt of worried they lasted longer than my motor! i spent great care in assemblyonly removed the pre wired "loom" when absolutely necessary and reconnected it straight away. day one whent well rode it around town up a big hill very impressed so i spent the next day wrapping the loom in spiraflex etc ready for a big run up the highway! its here that i found the only mistake in my assembly, the wires for the brake levers (which kill the engine when you brake) were a bit tight and one might have been a bit loose in its connector as a result. right i set out after about 2k;s i felt a bit of vibration and the motor apeared to cut in and out a couple of times, but i didnt know if this was a rough bit of road or normal opperation, it then ran perfectly for twenty od k's at a reasonably fast pace with me peddaling only up hills. after this the vibration came back big time foolishly i carried on like this for about a k, the motor died outside my door and has not turned under its own power since. ive checked all the wiring and only the brake cut out was a bit loose. the motor on inspection was found to sort of judder when turned by hand (i didnt notice this before) i susspected a bearing failure so pulled both covers, cant see anything out of place, but it spins very rough. ive contacted the seller who has agreed to send me a new controller foc. hes been very helpful but what can he say, cant just send me a new one cause i could be scamming him, i dont whant to send it back cause he could be a scammer and if he isnt the postage companys defo are!
what i need is advice, is there any special procedure to replacing the covers (as the seller implied) do the internal mechanisms need any special allignment (its them that seem to bind) why has the electrical system gone dead,fuse is good and charge indicator lights light up. after reading the symptons has anyone got any suggestions as to the cause. realy enjoyed the ride but at about $800 with the trike i think ill have to learn to live with global warming.
 
Welcome to ES.

The symptoms of the motor juddering and seeming to cut out are commonly those seen when a Hall sensor in the motor, or it's wiring, start to fail. However, you also say that the motor judders when you turn it by hand. Some cogging from the magnets passing the poles is normal for direct drive hub motors and it can produce some low speed vibration. Has your motor got stiffer to turn than it was when new, or has it always been like this?

The reason I ask is that another cause for a motor getting a stiff point, that tallies with your symptoms, is a blown controller FET or two. On a direct drive motor this can have the effect of shorting a couple of phases together, which can make the motor very jerky to turn.

Do you know what type of motor and controller you have? Although they virtually all come from China, there are only a few basic designs and folk here are familiar with most of them. If you could post a picture of the hub motor and the controller we could probably have a stab at determining what's gone wrong.

Jeremy
 
thanks jeremy ill try and get a pic of the hub on. im in the garage "playing" with it now and have just iscovered if i unplug the hub from the controller it spins freely! so id guese its the controller. wow this is a massive learning curve. whod of thought unpluging a dead controller with no power going to it would "cure" a juddering wheel. all ive gotta do now is figure out why it happened and wate for my new controller to arrive?
 
OK, that's pinned the main problem down to a blown FET or two in the controller. Before you go out and blow another controller, though it would be nice to find the cause of the first one dying. It may be that it was just a duff controller from the off, maybe with an dodgy internal connection somewhere, but it'd be a good idea to check the rest of your wiring very carefully. The ebrake problem wouldn't cause the controller to blow, so I don't think that's the cause. I'm going to make a stab at the cause having been a duff connection somewhere in the main wiring (power feed or phase wires) that caused a spike and blew the controller, but it's also possible that your controller got too hot after the prolonged run or that it just had an intermittent internal fault. The connectors used on some kits aren't always that great, either, so they are worth a good check over to make sure they're making good contact.

Jeremy
 
when you say the feed do you mean the wires from the battery? so i should probably change the connectors for some quality ones, that leaves the over heating what do i do about this? because thats the sort of use i had in mind. ive got the controller mounted in a large metal box with the batteries and charger etc (its a trike) should i move it outside or are we talking internal generated heat. i was peddling quite a bit ohnest, but was running full throttle moste of the way! i need it to be able to run long distance for touring the open road.
 
get that controller out in the open air !!!!!..

An easy test is to run for a few minutes and then open the box and touch the controller, if it's getting warm it's ok.. if it's hot ( like over 40~50 celcius ) it's too much as the internals are VERY hot at this point.. regardless, it should be mounted for open air, specially on a trike.

And yes, it's totally worth the time to replace the cheap connectors with better one's.

Look up Anderson Powerpoles PP30 or PP45 .. Deans connectors.. even RC style bullets.. my personal preference is Powerpoles.
 
Where on earth are you? There may be some helpful members near who can offer assist... extra eyes/ears/parts to troubleshoot can be handy.
 
TylerDurden said:
Where on earth are you? There may be some helpful members near who can offer assist... extra eyes/ears/parts to troubleshoot can be handy.

Always a good guessing game, trying to work out where people are, what time of day it is for them or even which season for some of our antipodean friends............

Getting the controller out in the open is very good advice, they can heat up pretty quickly if in enclosed spaces.

Jeremy
 
sorry my dodgy sense of humour!
im in nsw australia yes i suppose it is quite hot in a tin box for an electrical device, im origionaly from the uk so not used to having to consider such things
 
There are quite a few Aussie members here, there seems to be a concentration over in WA, around Perth, for some reason, although I'm not sure how many members are in NSW, apart from Hillhater in Sydney.

There's an Aussie roll call thread up in the general discussion area, BTW

Jeremy
 
Welcome to ES dmould66,

We're sorry to hear about the troubles you're having with your new hub motor kit. Hopefully, the previous advice and suggestions will help you in your repair efforts.

Having said this, can you give us an estimate on the total overall weight of both your trike and you, the rider?

I ask this because, IMO, a 500 watt 24v 20ah hub motor may not be the best option when it comes to meeting the overall weight and hill climbing performance that you seek.
 
FMB42 said:
Welcome to ES dmould66,

We're sorry to hear about the troubles you're having with your new hub motor kit. Hopefully, the previous advice and suggestions will help you in your repair efforts.

Having said this, can you give us an estimate on the total overall weight of both your trike and you, the rider?

I ask this because, IMO, a 500 watt 24v 20ah hub motor may not be the best option when it comes to meeting the overall weight and hill climbing performance that you seek.
the advice i have been given on here has been an amazing help, im in the process of replacing the connectors on my loom ready for when my new controller arrives from china.
as for the overall weight, i havnt got the equipment to weigh it, but i have kept weight to a minimum. the trike is only the weight of a axle and one wheel heavier than a pushbike, all i have added is the kit,2x batteries 6kg each, and a very light ,flimsy and small box to house the batteries( this replaced and massive wicker basket that made me look like marry poppins). im not fat. so i dont know. good idea to weigh it though.
im trying to keep the power to weight ratio high, which is why i went with small batteries. ive heard its the controller that limits the power not the hub, i had the option of a 1000 watt for the same price, but decided to go with the idea that putting half as much power down would allow me to use smaller lighter batteries to get a reasonable range. it takes of nicely and does just over 20 kmh, which is adequate for my use.
ive tried to put a picture on to give you an idea but cant work it out
 
this is the hub motor, id appreciate a makers name or any information if anyone recognizes it. ill get some pics of the trike on as soon as its back together
 

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this is the same problem i had with the same brand of motor, i ran it for a few minutes before it died with the same symptoms.after trying to isolate the problem in the controller for a few days i just gave up and brought a new one. you can get a 24v controller online for around 13 bucks, after i got the new controller, everything has been running fine, ive gotten 300miles so far.
 
Oh and also thats the same motor i have, conhismotor have 2 types of motors the mini and that one, everything else is based on the controller. if you're going to buy a new controller you can just get a 48v 1000 and it will run fine


this is the one i have, all the wiring works fine except you don't have cruise control (the red button on the throttle if you have the thumb throttle) and you have to wire the battery indicator lights directly in to the battery pack.

http://www.virtualvillage.com/004616-202.html

use this coupon for 25% off
VVN392R

also theres a single purple wire that i don't know what it's for.
 
No the LVC will be too high - it wont work. 24V sucks for hub motors, I'd go 36V myself, much lower current.

I'm located in Newcastle NSW and fix controllers if need be. Your hub looks to be a conhismotor or a Goldenmotor.
 
yes i reckon it is a cohnis, what do we know about their origins reliability etc, i realy liked it (for thirty k's) determined to get it reliable. how do you get on with yours?
 
dmould66 said:
this is the hub motor, id appreciate a makers name or any information if anyone recognizes it. ill get some pics of the trike on as soon as its back together

Since you're an Aussie, then I am absolutly certian thats a perfectly legal 200 watt motor, As far as the law knows. Sure it is.
The fact that it resembles a 750-1000 watt golden motor is pure coincidence, I'm sure. :D
 
definitely only 200 watt :lol: and its identical to the ones shown on the cohnismotor web site, they claim to manufacture them, so im going to claim its one, until i know diferent. ive soldered all the wires on the loom now to prevent any chance of a bad connection and moved the controller mounting out into the airflow just gotta wait till my replacement arrives then hopefully should get another 30k's out of it. been reading everything i can on here but to be ohnest so much of it goes over my head i doubt ill ever get it.
 
got my replacement controller,fitted it onto my newly soldered loom and it now apears to run fine again. am i expecting to much of this thing? should it be able to run for as long as the batteries hold a charge? or is it going to bust its guts everytime i take it for a thirty k run? :oops:
 
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