newbie says hi and elation kited cheap road bike

[zilla]

hi guys

i have been lurking for a month or so and want to say thanks for all the invaluable info

i have just fitted an elation kit to a very cheap and shitty road race styled bike the bike is by no means a light weight but with the kit lights and lock weighs 18.1 kg or just under 39 pounds it took about an hour 45min to fit
ive only ridden it once as i just finished putting it together the performance has put a big smile on my face me i expected it to be a little faster than a ezip trails i got for my lady but its night and day much quieter and easily twice as fast

so as a first tentative step into the world of ebikes what do you guys think....or how could i improve it...

 

[deecanio]

Hi Zilla,

Welcome to the sphere
thanks for posting, the bike looks really nice and tidy, what batts/controller are you running?

Cheers

D

 

[zilla]

battery is lipo 10ah 24v
controler is intergated into the motor

 

[dogman dan]

The only thing that needs is miles on it. Have fun!

 

[Sturdly]

Hi Zilla,

Welcome to the sphere
thanks for posting, the bike looks really nice and tidy, what batts/controller are you running?

Cheers

D

Allan is using a CW rotation Cyclone type motor. He wasn't happy with the range using a 500w so he is not currently selling that, only the lower wattage versions while he works out the higher amp battery configuration. I would really like to get my hands on one of those new custom cast cranksets , the new motor mount and slap one of those external controller 650w Cyclone motors on my Blast.

 

[Mark_A_W]

Zilla

When you open the throttle 100%, does it take about 15 seconds for the motor to spin up to speed?

My friends Elation V2 does this, and it makes it umm, unresponsive to say the least.


Also, I'd fit a derailleur jockey wheel in place of the stock chain tensioner pulley - the way it bounces over the chain is really annoying.

I wonder if it will run on 48v??....

 

[zilla]

yes it does ....i was told they have the wrong throttle and a replacement will be sent in about 4 weeks to sort out the stupid slow ramp up of power
i took the chain tensioner off as i could see it would be loud....i have very good chain alinment and tension i used a laser to get it perfect (it now freewheels much better than it did aligned buy eye) and so far no probs with chain coming off and it makes much much less noise than i expected

the motor is a headline 300w 24v ....is it the same as the cyclone 360w 24v?the performance seems far to good for 300w the agent said it can push a peak of over 700w after i had brought it
anyone tried either at 36v ...

 

[Pete]

Check the voltage rating of your fets and filter caps before you hook up a 36v pack. I have not seen a pic of the integrated controller but I am guessing it will be a royal PITA to replace blown fets on.

Just for interest, I contacted elation about buying their crank on it's own. It is one of the few 'special' bits they have made up so at the time they would not sell it as an individual part.

 

[zilla]

anyone opened one up? can it take a few more volts?

 

[Mark_A_W]

It's a cyclone motor - how much do we know about them?

 

[Sturdly]

Several folks have had bad luck over volting these built in controller type Cyclones. If you want real 36v power get the 650w external controller version which can now be run at 24v or 36v.

 

[OneWayTraffic]

Hi. A fellow New Zealander here (expat though). I've been interested in the Elation kits as well. (Quick note for non NZers- 300W is the maximum you can legally put on your bike, though speed isn't restricted at all.)

I've heard that chain drive kits can prematurely wear out the cogs and chain system on your bike. Any sign of that on your kit yet?

If anyone else has heard about this, how long would a good quality chain/cog system last? If it needs replacing every two or three years it's not such an issue to someone on my budget. Every 6 months though would be.

The other ebike I was thinking about getting was the Avanti Electra. http://www.avantibikes.com/electra/electra_default.aspx?bid=25&cid=18

It's not so grunty, but well designed and efficient. I can replace the SLA battery with an EV power LIFEPO4 and I plan to pedal anyways. Avanti has a pretty good rep of making quality bikes, so there's appeal over one of the many start ups out there.

 

[snowcrow]

Very Nice Ride 8) !!!!!!!!

Blessings, Snow Crow

 

[zilla]

thanks snow crow im loving it ....becoming a little compulsive though just brought a second hand full carbon frame for it

one way traffic

im not to worried about the gears wearing out as any bike is designed to take the max peak output of a big strong person with ease (about 1500w)

i was lucky enough to try the avanti electra at my local avanti dealer he had it at half price $999nz ...normaly $1999

i brought a ezipp trails aussie model 200w with out riding it,that my local kmart had lost the charger for (i already had a suitable one) for the bargain price of $150nz normaly $450nz...


im extremely unfit have recently had a heart attack and live on a very very steep hill
the ebike idea is to get a bit fitter with out having to work so hard i kill myself

having never ridden a e bike or a bike for 15 years i liked the electra it helped me pedal along the flat test run a bit
i was happy and i thought it was the only ebike for sale in town
i nearly brought it on the spot but am realy glad i didnt even compared to the ezipp it sucked ....alot....it has so little power that its in my opinion not worth carrying the extra weight around
i have since read that its 200w peak power and about everything else in aussie is 200w continuous

the ezipp now ridden buy my very fit girlfreind has much much more grunt not enough for my hill though
its quite loud and the bike it comes on is very heavy of questionable quality and is ugly
none of witch you could say about the electra

the elation kit is...in a different class from either its 300w contin over 700w peak
with help from my old mans legs it is nearly as fast as cars round town(the speed is currently limited buy me not being able to pedal fast enough in top gear)...can climb my hill with ease in 4th gear (road bike not mountain bike gearing!!) im off and pushing from the bottom on the ezipp is alot less noisy and weighs half of either
im very happy with it the only bad point is the price
i think some of the performance would be lost if the elation kit was on a mountain bike because of the greater rolling resitance and more in the wind riding position
im sure there is a lot of performance lost on my bike because im 6 foot 105kg and have more area to push through the wind than most



in summary the electra would let someone like me keep up with an average person on a mountain bike ,just if there were no hills..on a au/nz spec ezipp i could ride faster and further for 25% of the price the mountain bike rider would not be able to keep up....on the elation i passed a group of training road racers very easily but cant quite keep up with low powered scooters
hope this helps with your decision

 

[snowcrow]

My ebike is already in the works. I did choose a mountain bike over a road bike because the rural roads are mostly dirt here. I bought a Crystalyte 408 kit with a 48v 25amp controller and have it installed on a cheepy MTB. I'm still waiting on the SLA batteries to arrive, hopefully tomorrow 8) I hope to have it ready to ride this weekend Blessings, Snow Crow

 

[OneWayTraffic]

So it seems that the Electra has a high quality motor and a good controller but lacks grunt. For $999 it's a good price but for $1999 there's better options these days. On the other hand the Electra is a 2005 model and if they were to revisit it, and pump up the volume a bit with a better battery and a bit more juice then it'd be competitive.

I'm still mid thirties and fit. I currently get around the streets and cycleways of Seoul on a $60 Chinese special. When I'm not taking the subway or bus that is.

Thanks for the input regarding the Electra. I want a good bike first and foremost. I don't mind spending $2000 or $4000 if I will get what I need. (Figured out at $5 a day for the bus, and $5 a day just for petrol in a small car/medium commute it's cheaper to spend what you need to on a bike you will use.)

So Electra: Good bike made by a well known and supported company. But not going to zoom you up hills. Replacing the battery with a Li Ion will double range and give more power but will add to the cost.
ELation: Chain driven and faster. Pricier as well plus there's the possiblity of extra wear and tear on the bike. (I emailed the designer about this, will be interesting to see if he replies.) Has a far superior battery (though it's not known to me who makes the cells in it.)

There's also the Wisper 905(nice looking bike), the Ezee (good reviews in the UK) and several hub kits all available in NZ.

Decisions, decisions.

Of course I have a year before I start packing so I'm in no hurry, but it's nice to learn what I can first.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys

Thought while I was online I would check other posts. Found this one

The 'wrong' throttle' was not so much wrong, but an attempt to extend power/range by controlling ramp up speed. Approx 50% of people have commented on it. For those who have one and do not like it >> Stiff Only joking. Drop me an email with details and address and I will send 'standard' one to you at no cost.

As a result of this we are going back to supplying 'standard' throttle in kit, with energy saver throttle as option.

Chain Wear: This is one of those myths being driven by hub motor proponents (read sales person), along with chain drive because of gears being less "efficient" that hub systems.

OK, they caught us out. AT LEAST AT FIRST GLANCE.

Here is the FULL fact. Yes gears do cause inefficiency compared to direct systems. BUT only 1-2% for gear types used on bikes. This is far out weighed by the fact that a direct drive bike is near on useless off a BMX track. Minor detail omitting the actual percentage by sales people; but hey they are still telling the "truth". Also remember gears allow the drive source to operate in peak range at more/most speeds, just like a car. So which system is less efficient !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In regard to chain wear. For a given rider using the exact same ride pattern with chain drive or hub drive; again yes there will be "faster" wear. How much, don't know yet as people using our system and who have reported clocking over 2000km, SO FAR, have still not had to replace any drive component. So sorry cannot give definite answer yet, maybe next year, or the year after, or...

I think it is safe to say that you may have to replace your system say 5-10% earlier than if not used. But remember bikes are designed to carry larger loads that most people and tend to be over engineered to play it safe, so the amount of 'increased' wear I think is again over stressed by hub sales person.

Just one final note on this point; my experience. I have been using the same bike for prototyping and testing now for approx 3 years. It gets punished with everything possible, including 800W motor for 'fun'. It is a cheap Cheetah brand that retails for about AUD250. I have not replaced a single item on this, except for gear levers at the start as they were twist grip.

In relation to idler. A problem we had was sourcing just a deraliiuer idler (in volume) without having to by whole derailluer. This has now been acheived and all further kits will have a 11T idler with sealed bearing; a further example on our efforts to continue to improve where we can.

I would ask that you people, who are really the leading edge users for this market, contact me via forum AND DIRECT with any comments or suggestions you may have to improve the system or something that might be desirable to see on system. For example we are currently investigating the additon of an OEM meter as standard, hopefully without increasing cost too much (if at all).

Please don't count on me seeing these posts, if any poster could also email me direct that would be great. I will answer on forum then

Cheers
Allan