Nissan Leaf EV

[liveforphysics]

Whoa. That looks very cold.

You couldn't safely charge an EV battery without warming it to at least >0C. That seems like a place fairly poorly suited towards EV usage.

 

[Toshi]

Whoa. That looks very cold.

You couldn't safely charge an EV battery without warming it to at least >0C. That seems like a place fairly poorly suited towards EV usage.

That seems like a place fairly poorly suited for human habitation.

(NB: I spent 6 weeks in Fairbanks in 2007. 6 weeks in the summer, that is.)

More seriously, there are ICE vehicles with heating systems better suited to extreme temps. Either Ford or Ram has an extra resistive heating element available as an option on their HD pickups, iirc, and 2008-onwards Land Cruisers and platform mates have an extra ceramic resistive heater standard, just for these extreme weather scenarios.

 

[Xrain]

Whoa. That looks very cold.

You couldn't safely charge an EV battery without warming it to at least >0C. That seems like a place fairly poorly suited towards EV usage.

That seems like a place fairly poorly suited for human habitation.

(NB: I spent 6 weeks in Fairbanks in 2007. 6 weeks in the summer, that is.)

More seriously, there are ICE vehicles with heating systems better suited to extreme temps. Either Ford or Ram has an extra resistive heating element available as an option on their HD pickups, iirc, and 2008-onwards Land Cruisers and platform mates have an extra ceramic resistive heater standard, just for these extreme weather scenarios.

The thing about Fairbanks is there is plugins everywhere. The local box stores have plugins in their parking lots so they people can plug in their block heaters while they are in the store shopping. So in a way we are already set-up for EV's up here . If you ran a EV up here you would just put silicone pad heaters in the battery box, like we have on our oil pans and engine blocks. That way the battery will be kept warm, and once you are driving, the heat generated by the battery would be sufficient to keep it warm.

Every car up here that is driven in the winter has resistive heaters on the engine. My car has a silicone pad heater on the oilpan, a heater that goes directly into the side of the block, and a trickle charger for my battery. If you don't your car will just flat out not start at -35 and below.

 

[Hillhater]

Every car up here that is driven in the winter has resistive heaters on the engine. My car has a silicone pad heater on the oilpan, a heater that goes directly into the side of the block, and a trickle charger for my battery. If you don't your car will just flat out not start at -35 and below.

so,..not a place to be during a long power black out ! ....or do you just keep those motors idling all the time ?

 

[Xrain]

Every car up here that is driven in the winter has resistive heaters on the engine. My car has a silicone pad heater on the oilpan, a heater that goes directly into the side of the block, and a trickle charger for my battery. If you don't your car will just flat out not start at -35 and below.

so,..not a place to be during a long power black out ! ....or do you just keep those motors idling all the time ?

Yea a blackout would be rather problematic. Though they are pretty infrequent now. Our city actually has the worlds largest battery. It acts like a UPS for the entire city. It is capable of powering the whole city for around 60 minutes.

It used to be a huge problem, since some of the power for the city is run from Anchorage which is about 360 miles away. The line was always getting taken out by avalanches, trees, and snow load. So they installed the giant back-up battery to give them time to spin up alternate sources of power.

Yes generally when its very cold out you keep your car running unless you plug it in. Can get a bit expensive on the gas.

 

[Arlo1]

We get temps that cold here in Canada as well. I moved away from it but northern Alberta sees temps that low and if you don't plug your ice powered car it it will not start. Most houses have natural gas heat some wood and some other options but if the power goes out for long shit really hits the fans water pipes burst etc. I was visiting my gf at the time in ft mac Alberta and my new at the time srt4 did not have a block heater and would not even turn a revolution. So I put it on charge to try to help the pour lead battery and bought a magnetic resistive heater and got it going. Her mom had blown the oil filter open and spewed oil all over the ground because she had to "thick" of oil 15w 50 or something. I have always ran 5w50 synthetic so I can run it in all temps.
Its kind of cool that cold weather, your nostrils freeze shut you eyes sometimes freeze shut and cars that are left idling will build huge frost heavies under the ex pipes.
But if I needed to use an electric car in those conditions I would do something to keep the battery warm and charge it more often. Most places have free power for the block heaters so they would not care if you are charging. Be carefull some cheep buisnesses will cycle the "free" power so they save money.

 

[Toshi]

I visited Campbell Nelson Nissan in Edmonds, WA today and they have a fantastic lease deal on the Leaf going on through the end of the month: capitalized cost of $9,775 off the invoice price, money factor of 0.00003, and for a 12k/yr lease residual of 56% and 48% for 24 or 36 month terms, respectively. (Other fees and charges are Nissan's $595 acquisition fee and $370 in title charges.)

For an SL it works out to just over $270/month for 24 months, iirc, with nothing due up front.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I visited Campbell Nelson Nissan in Edmonds, WA today and they have a fantastic lease deal on the Leaf going on through the end of the month: capitalized cost of $9,775 off the invoice price, money factor of 0.0003, and for a 12k/yr lease residual of 56% and 48% for 36 or 24 month terms, respectively. (Other fees and charges are Nissan's $595 acquisition fee and $370 in title charges.)

For an SL it works out to just over $270/month for 24 months, iirc, with nothing due up front.

HOLY COW, you couldn't lease a bicycle here for that money, that's just 204 Euro's a month OMFG, LMAO.

I can't understand why the Leaf doesn't sell so much better in the U.S ? Surely it cant be due to the limited range ?

It won't sell here because it costs 33,632 USD and it can't be leased afaik, and that's even before interest of around 6.5 % for a loan or finance is paid back. OMG things are so much cheaper in the U.S!

I worked it out that currently the Prius costs me around 3200 in petrol a year to do around 25000 miles at around 58-60 imp mpg. The maintenance is around 600 Euro's a year and the road tax costs 480 Euro's a year. That's 4280 Euro's a year to run.

The leaf would cost around 600 in electricity, 100 in so called maintenance, and 140 in road tax. That's 840 a year total.

That saves me 3400 a year over the Prius, x 5 years 17,200 Euro's to put into a new leaf. It's still leaves 9,000 to pay. However I estimate I would get at least 5-6 K euro's for the prius leaving me to come up with 3-4 grand to pay to change. Not bad.

However after 125000 miles what would the battery condition be ? and what would the value of the leaf be ? and how much would a new battery cost ? would I have the range after even 4 years and 100K miles ? I need a good 85 miles a day round trip.

Anyway I can't do it unless work installs a charger. We are getting a huge amount of fast ac and dc chargers so in a year or 2 there will not be anywhere you can't travel on this Island of Ireland in an E.V the infrastructure will be that good, it's already pretty good for the renault Zoe when she comes. all chargers are 20 kw that are currently installed apart from the few fast dc chargers already installed.

 

[dnmun]

there is an arduino based hack of the charging spot already out on the net.

if you can get 240V at work mounted somewhere that you could park, then you could build up the hack for about $200 at most from what i read. the biggest part is the cable, and the most expensive part. that would allow you to charge anywhere. and you could keep track of the amount of juice used and regularly reimburse your employer, or work out a deal with them for the juice.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

there is an arduino based hack of the charging spot already out on the net.

if you can get 240V at work mounted somewhere that you could park, then you could build up the hack for about $200 at most from what i read. the biggest part is the cable, and the most expensive part. that would allow you to charge anywhere. and you could keep track of the amount of juice used and regularly reimburse your employer, or work out a deal with them for the juice.

Do you mean just a normal 3 pin socket like you would mount in a garden ? I don't know if they would do that. They would probably just install the charger with the Norman e.v socket.

I've asked them anyway so well see, the building consumes 14 megawatts and probably double in a few months after the expansion so I doubt they would even charge, they would have to be bad bastards to charge me for a measly 8 or 9 kw/hrs.

 

[dnmun]

yes, from what i read about the arduino hack it can be a standard 3 pronged outlet. in the US the standard wall outlet voltage is 120V but in countries where you have 240 then you can charge at 30A/240. depending on security at the lot the same spot could be shared, even time shared with some kinda automated load switching in the box.

for me, i can only see this stuff happening outside of the guvment. if i was a business, i would not wanna have a charging instaallation that had federal regulations about access. i prefer to do that through some kinda social networking function. kinda like roomate's car sharing ride sharing, so there would be closer social bonds than federal regulations.

that is how i see the neighborhood EV charging spot developing, kindaa like hacking did in the 70's. remember how the woz got into hacking with the black box for using long distance for free? hard for the modern crowd to realize how all this started just a few years ago.

 

[Toshi]

The USDM Leaf changes for the 2013 model year are now official: http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit

Changes:

- now built in Smyrna, TN rather than in Japan
- new, stripper S trim lacking much of the below
- 6.6 kW Level 2 charger
- heat pump!
- black leather and 17"s
- option of the previously-seen-on-Infinitis Around View Monitor
- marginally increased range via aero and regeneration, marginally increased cargo volume

Pricing TBD. Basically all of this is straight from the 2013 JDM playbook, only we get 6.6 kW chargers and they don't! Actually, I'm not sure whether theirs are still built in Japan or not.

 

[grindz145]

The color and wheels are enough of an upgrade I don't dig the sky blue thing. Doesn't do anything for me.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I drove a Leaf in Dublin last Wednesday. It was a great experience. I knew I would like the instant throttle response but I had no idea I would like it so much. No lag of an auto box, no clutch to pop no cogs to swap, no waiting for turbo. Brilliant !

The faint whir of the motor as I planted the accelerator and experiencing almost silent acceleration all the way to 62 mph was really the best thrill of all. It was like a limo compared to my MK II Prius.

I would love one, but I need a permanent job as I've been on temp contract since last February. Also I need a charger at work. I don't think the Leaf could make it comfortably. I have about an 85 mile round trip every day.

If I was to travel to work every day for 5 years I would spend (at current fuel prices 8 USD per U.S gallon.) I would spend around 22,850 USD on Petrol over 5 years. Add the savings on road tax =2,000 USD.

Leaf price 35,927 USD after 6,500 USD Government grant.

I would have around 100,000 miles after the 5 years, the battery life I have no idea what to expect, cost to replace in 5 years is anyone's guess.

New model arrives in 2015, Better range ? who knows. NMC has almost 1.5 the energy density ?

 

[sk8norcal]

[youtube]2zKvL5Qqn18[/youtube]

 

[Toshi]

Semi-official EPA range estimates released, to go along with the officially released 130/102 city/hwy MPGe that's visible on NissanUSA.com.

Cliffs Notes:

- The 75 mile window sticker that you may have seen elsewhere on the internet is a blended estimate of 80% and 100% SOC ranges, a new twist introduced this year by the EPA
- 80% SOC yields 66 miles
- 100% SOC yields 84 miles

 

[LeftieBiker]

Can you order the base model with the heat pump as an option?

 

[Toshi]

Can you order the base model with the heat pump as an option?

Nope. SV and SL get it exclusively.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Dumb of them to price the car out of most of the North American market, then...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Wow, no new posts? Well, I leased a 2013 leaf SV last week, and have been enjoying it ever since. The "Brilliant Silver" color wasn't my first choice, but due to the dealer saying they had non-optioned SV models on the lot (they didn't) I got the Bose sound system and 360 degree view camera system for free. Real world range in Upstate NY looks to be 50-65 miles, but that's using the heat and A/C (same unit in the SV and SL models!) prudently and having the lights and stereo on. I'm charging it from a standard 120 volt outlet, too. Slow, but it works. I had no idea I'd ever be driving a Leaf, much less a $34k Leaf, but they had some damned good lease deals in May! I'll be happy to answer any questions about "owning" one.

 

[knoxie]

Yes nice! I picked up the very last of the outgoing models up brand new on a 2013 plate, never been a car person until now! had a loaner for 3 days and that sold it to me, they are affordable to lease, you would be a little mad to buy one outright as its early days for this tech and who knows what they will be worth. I have mine on a 2 year lease at £99 uk a month, I was spending that on petrol alone before! the car was half the price of a petrol equivalent when you do the sums, I can charge it for free at work or at home (solar panels) there is next to no running costs for a year, no vehicle excise duty (I used to pay £250 a year) oh and its fast soooo fast, smooth, silent and simply awesome.

Get to your local Nissan dealer and book a test drive and or convince them to loan you a car, once driven its really hard to go back to a petrol car, I will never own a petrol car again and would be happy with this car to the end of my days, but they way the tech is going who knows! just watch the petrol prices soar again as tension mounts in the middle east, if it doesnt go up because of this it will because of the corrupt oil cartels, two big fingers to them from me, with my ebikes as well I am sun powered at the sun dont charge me a dime.

Took it for its first fast charge yesterday, did a little video because well I always do :lol:

[youtube]LD0jdPg6JjA[/youtube]

 

[Arlo1]

We test drove one here last Monday. It is a good car and can meet all my driving needs other then the odd long trip to Alberta ~900km and I try to do it in 8-10 hours depending on cops and traffic. A leaf would slow that down but that's only 3 times in 2 years. A trip to Cali to see luke and methy for example would be ok because they have chargers down the I5 and I believe they are level 3 CHAdeMO in some places.

I drive 70km a day and some extra on the weekends. I use ~$300 a month in fuel plus oil changes and maintenance. I just changed my clutch and it was hell I will burn the car to the ground before doing that again. (Dodge is not build like a Honda) Roomer is we will get a $199 a month lease in Canada but they have not released the Leaf here for 2013 yet. I would consider a lease because when its up the new cars out will blow this one away. And it will give me time to see how they think they need to add road tax to EVs here in BC. But I really do like the Leaf as well. Its a dream to drive and I'm addicted to watching the regen meter while braking lol. Back up camera heated seats and steering wheel. You can get a level 2 charger at Home depot.

This car is a good big step in the right direction. It will also help people see how a small range is still very useful then when the bigger ranges and added fast chargers are around it will be an easy sell. I think the lease is something to do with the green car credits. I mean every company has to meet environmental standards in the US and some of that is for every so many dirty cars they need to sell so many clean cars. Elon Musk mentions how he sells other car company's hi clean car credits and makes a profit on it.

 

[Ykick]

Thanks for the awesome (as usual) video Knoxie!

Cleaner immediate air, smooth quiet cars, more local work producing/distributing transportation energy. What's not to like?

 

[Punx0r]

£99/mo lease sounds like very good value - I doubt you can get much else for so little. I suspect they're keeping the prices to try and increase uptake? Good news for the early adopters

Also, is that charger really capable of 50Kw?!

 

[Arlo1]

Also, is that charger really capable of 50Kw?!

Up to 62.5kw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO