Nissan Leaf with electric generator?

[davidsvoboda]

Hi, I am quite impressed with the new BMW I3 that has the option to recharge the battery via smaller petrol motor during ride.

Do you think it would be possible to create something similar in say normal Nissan Leaf so it would become also long-distance capable?
Any ideas, previous projects? Also, just an external patrol energy generator could be useful to use when stopped a car but no plug is available.. Anyone using this?

Thanks for any ideas!

I am just looking for arguments to be convinced into buying Nissan Leaf as my only (and actually first car) in which I could also travel across Europe.

 

[amberwolf]

THere's threads about "range extender" that talk about this sort of thing if you poke around here and on DIY Electric Car.

 

[Drunkskunk]

It could be done. But it wouldn't be easy. The I3 uses a 650cc motorcycle engine that was rated at 65HP when mounted in the C650. It's rated at 35hp when used as a generator, but that's partly due to the RPM range it runs at while being used as a generator.

So you aren't going to replace it with a little portable generator. And you won't likely be replacing it with a large household generator from an RV. Even the huge 6000w Onan Generators used on the biggest RVs are only 10hp.

And then there is the weight. I have a 6000w/10HP generator, while it's "portable", it weighs 200lbs, and it's not even the electric start model. Carrying an extra 200lbs in a car will hurt your range considerably. Carrying a bigger one able to get up to the 35 horse power/wattage like the I3 would hurt your range even more. You would need the generator just to offset the reduced range from carrying a generator.

And finally, the space. Even a massively undersized 6000w unit is a large object, roughly the size of a car's engine with all accessories. considering you don't want the gas motor to be in the cabin with you while running, you would have to find a spot to put a small car engined size device on a small car designed with no engine. That leaves the roof, or on some kind of rack attached to the rear bumper.

And a final thought. There are no pollution controls or considerations to clean burning in a portable generator motor's design. A lawnmower engine produces 40 times more pollution than a car's engine. By using them to power a car (even indirectly as a charger) you are effectively erasing every benefit of having your electric car, and then the benefit of 39 more electric cars.

 

[davidsvoboda]

It could be done. But it wouldn't be easy. The I3 uses a 650cc motorcycle engine that was rated at 65HP when mounted in the C650. It's rated at 35hp when used as a generator, but that's partly due to the RPM range it runs at while being used as a generator.

So you aren't going to replace it with a little portable generator. And you won't likely be replacing it with a large household generator from an RV. Even the huge 6000w Onan Generators used on the biggest RVs are only 10hp.

And then there is the weight. I have a 6000w/10HP generator, while it's "portable", it weighs 200lbs, and it's not even the electric start model. Carrying an extra 200lbs in a car will hurt your range considerably. Carrying a bigger one able to get up to the 35 horse power/wattage like the I3 would hurt your range even more. You would need the generator just to offset the reduced range from carrying a generator.

And finally, the space. Even a massively undersized 6000w unit is a large object, roughly the size of a car's engine with all accessories. considering you don't want the gas motor to be in the cabin with you while running, you would have to find a spot to put a small car engined size device on a small car designed with no engine. That leaves the roof, or on some kind of rack attached to the rear bumper.

And a final thought. There are no pollution controls or considerations to clean burning in a portable generator motor's design. A lawnmower engine produces 40 times more pollution than a car's engine. By using them to power a car (even indirectly as a charger) you are effectively erasing every benefit of having your electric car, and then the benefit of 39 more electric cars.

Really good reply, thank you! So I think the only really viable option would be to somehow copy what I3 does - use a small motorcycle motor and build it into the car with some energy conversion mechanism to the battery..

 

[Punx0r]

Or just buy a plug-in hybrid car

 

[The fingers]

A natural gas generator trailer for long trips.

 

[davidsvoboda]

Can I ask also, if I was to buy a fairly used Leaf (with cca 50 000km on the clock). Do we know now whether the replacement batteries will be available to purchase? Also, would even older Leaf allow me to upgrade to bigger (30KW/h) battery in the future or not?

Thank you!

 

[davidsvoboda]

A natural gas generator trailer for long trips.

That's a joke right? Because it would be too dangerous to carry LPG with me in the car.. or not?

 

[Ykick]

A natural gas generator trailer for long trips.

That's a joke right? Because it would be too dangerous to carry LPG with me in the car.. or not?

LPG and CNG are very different things. NAT Gas for vehicle use must be greatly compressed, thus CNG.

LPG (liquid propane) is already delivered in compressed form although it’s much more dangerous than CNG due to it being much heavier and lays on the ground if/when tank ruptures. NAT Gas is lighter than air and will quickly dissipate into the upper atmosphere.

Thing is, CNG is not that common and thus requires plenty of extra shit while also providing reduced thermal efficiency compared to gasoline/diesel.

Many of these “range extender” ideas are simply not practical for any number of reasons. Not to say there may not be a particular situation where it could possibly make sense for something like tour camping remote areas of wilderness...

 

[nicobie]

Why not just buy a Volt? It will do what you are asking.

 

[Hillhater]

LPG, ..AKA camping gas, bottle gas, propane, butane, etc, is one of the most common domestic fuels in many parts of the world.
Nearly all Taxis in Sydney ( and elsewhere) run on LPG as do a lot of commercial busses, and industrial equipment (fork trucks etc). It's safety is proven and is sold in most service stations down here from bulk pumps.
Price is $0.5- 0.6 litre.