Noob project: Cheap and easy

[Darb]

Total noob, ready to dip my toe into the ebike world, so be kind.

Going to use my Trek 720 that I purchased new back in 1994 -ish.

What I want it to do: Recreational riding. Don’t need it to go any faster than 20- 25 mph. Most rides will be in the 10 mile round trip range, with longest anticipated ride being 23 miles round trip. All paved, roads or sidewalks. I plan on pedaling most of the time. Mostly flat, a few mild hills.
I’m reasonably fit, 54 years old, 160 lbs.

I want cheap and easy. Under $700 (I'm flexible). I’m a total noob, no electrical experience, so I’d like it to be as plug and play as possible.

I’m looking at the yescom kits. I’m thinking a front wheel hub. To me that seems like the easiest install, though I know many think rear wheel is much better. I need to know which one exactly will fit my bike and whether any of the accessories really should be replaced/upgraded.
Possibly this kit: https://www.yescomusa.com/collections/electric-bicycle-motor/products/brushless-electric-bicycle-engine-48v-1000w-front-wheel-hub-motor-kit


The battery is what I’m having a hard time with. Lifpo4? EM3EV? Lunacycle? Battery is where I really need the most guidance.

Someone tell me X kit plus Y battery will = what I want.

Any suggestions will be appreciated….I’m sure all my answers are already out there but I just want some definitive answers… Thanks.

 

[markz]

You may want to look at the Conhismotor on ebay. Everything came already plugged in, in the box.
The price is $550(CAD) so $400USD nothing special about it really except that it has the KU display which is very helpful. I bought one, and started a post.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87722&p=1299717&hilit=Conhismotor#p1280733

The 1500W is more like 1000W, which is what you need. Ride it until the rim gets frocked, then buy a brand name rim and spokes. I frocked mine up because I am 375lbs. Yours may be different but the key is to always check them spokes, every week. Tighten them up and eye ball the trueness.

Then you just need to worry about the battery. You could just go to Home Depot and buy tool pack batteries. Or buy a pack from ebikes.ca or lunacycle or em3ev.

If you want better quality, you'd buy your motor and controller and throttles from there too.
Remember to buy some Torque Arms as well.

 

[Hank]

I can only tell you my experience with Yescom conversion kits. This is only my opinion based on my experience owning their product, I am not an expert. I have two of their 26" front hub motors. I haven't had any problems with either motor, or controller; both are 36 volt, 500 watt front hub motors, I have owned and ridden them for three years. Each motor performed as expected. The problem I had was with their lack of foresight and quality control. The first thing you should do is deflate the tire, remove it and the tube and place rim tape over the spoke holes inside the rim. We had two flats within 10 minutes of riding because they do not install rim tape and leave sharp spoke holes with burs that will flatten your tires.

The throttle works well in good weather but needs to be cleaned occasionally because dust and grime will collect inside and cause intermittent operation. Your choice of battery will determine range, how the bike handles as well weather it will remain upright on a kick stand. They supply a rack to mount the batteries above the rear wheel. If you go with sealed lead acid batteries you add considerable weight above the center of gravity of the bike, basically twice the weight of your bike. If you went with a 48 volt 18AH system it would take 4 SLA's weighing in at about 42 pounds. Enough to bend a kick stand and topple over the bike. A similar lithium system weighs about 12 pounds. The cost difference is dramatic around a hundred dollars for the SLA's and over $400 for the lithium.

One thing to keep in mind, if you go with the 1000 watt kit, YOU MUST INSTALL TORQUE ARMS. Otherwise, the probability of the axle spinning in the front dropouts is extremely likely. If that happens, you will lose the front wheel... I know this based on experience. That's why people recommend a rear hub motor. The likelyhood of that happening with a lower powered motor is much less. Otherwise, I have gotten many miles of service from the 500 watt kits and expect you would as well; if you take some precautions and do some PM occasionally.

 

[markz]

I see previous poster mentioned lead acid batteries. You want to stay far away from that ancient "waste of time & money" technology. Just use some electric lawn mower batteries, or used tool pack batteries, or buy reputable battery packs from Justin at ebikes.ca Yeah they are expensive but have a better chance of not burning down your house.

 

[d8veh]

Regarding the battery, LiFePO4 is big and heavy compared with the Emve3 and Luna alternatives. Weight always makes your bike worse. Size is no problem if you can accommodate it, but accommodation becomes more difficult as size increases. It's not good to mount a large battery on a rack behind the seat. That can cause diabolical handling. You need to find a way to get your battery near the middle of the bike. At 20 to 25 mph, you'll need about 25 to 30 wh/mile -maybe a bit less if you pedal hard. That means that a 10Ah one would be enough for your 10 mile joirney, but for 23 miles, you'll need something like 17 to 20 Ah and maybe keep the speed down to about 22 mph..That's all assuming that you go with 48v. You don't need any more volts for 25 mph. All you'll get is less efficiency.

 

[rumme]

If you wanna go 25 mph speed and distances of 20+ miles, then I think a 48 volt battery is best. The YESCOMUSA motor kits in 48 volt/ 1000 watt is the least expensive option and they seem to work fine { I built 3 ebikes using them } . I have used those motor kits for both rear wheel and front wheel and for your requirements { mostly riding on flat roads} a front wheel setup will work fine and be much easier to install / or uninstall if you have a flat. This will also help balance the bike if you have to mount your battery pack above the rear wheel using a rack.

For newbies, Lifepo4 is the safest option on a battery pack. It is also one of the longest lasting with the ability to get 1500+ cycles on it.

So my suggestions based on your needs/ price range -

Yescomusa 1000 watt- 48 volt- front drive kit with 20-30 amp controller included- around $200 shipped

Lifepo4 battery - 48 volt - 20 AH with built in BMS, + charger around $540- $600.

With this setup, you will be riding a ebike in no time. Its simple and effective.

FWIW, I sent you a private message with additional information.

 

[dogman dan]

It might be cheaper to slow some, and go with a 36v kit, plus 36v 15 ah battery. This will get you more than the ten miles fast as it goes, which will be at least 20 mph at the start of the ride, possibly faster, depending on the wind of the motor.

You will still be able to go 23 miles, but to do that you have to slow down to 15 mph or less which makes the % of the power from pedaling increase. sure, it will take longer, but you still get there with easy pedaling all the way. Climb hills easy with full power still.

The kit will of course, have to come with a 700c rim. Lots of the very cheapest kits come only in 26".

Bike is perfect as is, pretty much the classic best choice of frame for a low budget, sturdy electric bike.

 

[rumme]

It might be cheaper to slow some, and go with a 36v kit, plus 36v 15 ah battery. This will get you more than the ten miles fast as it goes, which will be at least 20 mph at the start of the ride, possibly faster, depending on the wind of the motor.

You will still be able to go 23 miles, but to do that you have to slow down to 15 mph or less which makes the % of the power from pedaling increase. sure, it will take longer, but you still get there with easy pedaling all the way. Climb hills easy with full power still.

The kit will of course, have to come with a 700c rim. Lots of the very cheapest kits come only in 26".

Bike is perfect as is, pretty much the classic best choice of frame for a low budget, sturdy electric bike.

I think a lot of us learned, when we made our first ebike , that its often better to have a more powerful battery { voltage, amps} then less powerful. Yes, a 36 volt - 15 AH battery may work for his situation, but it is often the case, that the lower powered battery will be discharged deeper and strained more, then a 48 volt- 20 AH battery. This means the more powerful battery should hold up longer and perform better over the long haul. It is also nice to have the more powerful battery, just in case the rider gets bored with only being able to do 20 mph top speed or decided they need to travel a distance further then 15 mile round trip.

I like to put it this way, would you rather have a gas tank on a car that can hold 10 gallons of gas or 15 gallons of gas ?

 

[neptronix]

Those brakes are not gonna hold up to what you're trying to do at all.
The yescom kits are cheap but the motor is a heavy 10 year old design, and the components that come with it are about as low quality.

You might want to check some other people's builds before taking the plunge.

 

[2old]

+1 on the YES kit; I was a newbie (still am) and with the kit 1000w rear hub, which was plug and play, rides nicely two years later with a 52V 10 a-h Luna battery at up to 32 mph. Look at the reviews section for other info on them. Also, seems like ebikeling has a 1200w, geared kit that others have liked.

 

[rumme]

Those brakes are not gonna hold up to what you're trying to do at all.
The yescom kits are cheap but the motor is a heavy 10 year old design, and the components that come with it are about as low quality.

You might want to check some other people's builds before taking the plunge.

Yes, they are inexpensive kits, but he already stated he wants a " cheap' electric bike. Also, he will be using it for commuting on flat roads and is happy with around
20 mph top speed. Another positive thing for him is he only weighs 160 lbs. I actually think if he is looking for cheap and easy, a YESCOMUSA front wheel drive kit for $200 shipped, is his best option for now. I have one of those kits and it has performed well for the last 4 years.

 

[docw009]

If the OP is going to do an e-bike kit, he should know how to keep the mechanical parts in tune, since he could be going a lot faster. And if you're going to learn these things, they aren't hard at all.

I never knew what to do with the two screws on the rear derailleur, and I really didn't care much in 40 years of riding bikes, But after building my first kit, rear hub motor, I had to figure it out. So I watched a youtube video and saw it's not hard at all. Sure, a rear hub motor might require some adjustments, but it's easy and worth it in a safer install. I also learned how to adjust spokes. Used to be, all our bikes had wobbly wheels. Today, they're all straight.

If the OP wants easy, I'd suggest a hard case battery with a downtube cradle. That's easy. Maybe not as cheap as a soft sided unit in a bag, but durable.

 

[neptronix]

I missed the part about the front motor.

Those forks also are very weak and will bend around like noodles under the power of even a small geared hub motor.
Those are not designed to take high amounts of braking force, hence the cantilever brakes ( the weakest kind of brakes designed )

No way in hell would i put a front motor on that bike.

Just make sure to wear a helmet and other protective gear if you chose to disregard this advice.


As far as cheap kits go, you get what you pay for. That's not the worst kit on the market, but you can do a lot better by spending a little more.

 

[dogman dan]

Excuse me for suggesting cheaper, since cheap and easy is the title.

Hell yes 48v 20 ah is better, but its not cheaper than 350 wh,, its double the price or more at 1000wh. In his price range, I'd rather recommend a good 36v 10 ah, than a cheapo 48v 20 ah. But its true, the cheapo battery doesn't always burn your house down.

I have found time and time again, that most people do only need about 10 miles range, at full speed of 20 mph. He will have that easy with a 36v 10ah.

More battery now though, if he really wants 20 mile range without a charge, or slowing down to pedal a lot.

Rear kit, there is no really good reason to need a front for that particular bike.

 

[LewTwo]

Those brakes are not gonna hold up to what you're trying to do at all.
...
Those forks also are very weak and will bend around like noodles under the power of even a small geared hub motor.

Guess I should park my bikes somewhere and hope someone steals them.
FYI: The forks (even the aluminum ones) have no resemblance to noodles and the brakes work just fine.

 

[docw009]

There's a long thread here with pics like this one. Why go front if you don't have any need for it?

 

[Raisedeyebrows]

Wouldn't one of those Kepler Friction Drive motors be good on a frame like that? Or would that be out of the realm of cheap?

 

[Darb]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll document my progress and probably failures here....

 

[LewTwo]

There's a long thread here with pics like this one. Why go front if you don't have any need for it?

1) One might prefer not messing about with derailers, chainline, cassettes, etc.
2) IGH hub in the rear
3) Shaft drive
4) Belt drive (can you use a belt drive with a rear motor hub ... do not really know?)
5) Less challenging for trike conversions
6) It does work for those that do not have a 'need for speed' or power
7) It can be a very simple

 

[dogman dan]

Those are the reasons to go with a front hub. Few of them apply to that particular bike. Reasons 6 and 7 are not really needs, but he could feel he wants to apply those ones.

Its got a nice strong steel front fork on it. I raced at 50 mph, feeding 4000w to a front hub on a similar fork, with two very good torque arms installed.

Definitely, a weak fork is not his reason to choose a rear hub. He can go either way on a whim. But I still say that bike is ideal for a rear. Its a typical 7 speed steel frame. Nothing making it awkward to go rear on that bike at all. He could swap his brakes to v brake type if he wants to, the mounts work with either. But new pads should be all he really needs, for 20 mph cruising.

 

[rumme]

Those are the reasons to go with a front hub. Few of them apply to that particular bike. Reasons 6 and 7 are not really needs, but he could feel he wants to apply those ones.

Its got a nice strong steel front fork on it. I raced at 50 mph, feeding 4000w to a front hub on a similar fork, with two very good torque arms installed.

Definitely, a weak fork is not his reason to choose a rear hub. He can go either way on a whim. But I still say that bike is ideal for a rear. Its a typical 7 speed steel frame. Nothing making it awkward to go rear on that bike at all. He could swap his brakes to v brake type if he wants to, the mounts work with either. But new pads should be all he really needs, for 20 mph cruising.

I think if we look at the OP'S scenario of :

he weighs 160 lbs
wants INEXPENSIVE
wants SIMPLE/EASY
needs only 20 mph top speed
will be riding on flat road surfaces

A 500-1000 watt direct drive hub motor mounted on the front is ideal. This also makes it easy for him to mount his battery on a rack , behind the rear wheel, so he now has the weight of the motor up front, and the weight of the battery at the back, for even distribution.....I see this as the easiest way for him to do it...and he wanted
" easy" . If the time comes later on, that he wants to try and mount a battery inside his frame, that is always a option.

I built my wife a front drive fatbike, and she weighs about the same weight as the O.P...and the front wheel drive works great up to 30 mph speeds. Its also nice to have the 2 wheel drive format when using a front drive motor, where you apply throttle to get the front motor rolling and pedal to apply power to the rear.

I actually think that front wheel drive systems, get to much of a bad rap. They can perform nicely and be very simply setup , and changing a flat tire on a front wheel motor mounted is easier then rear wheel that has the chain, deraullieur.

The torque arms do need to be implemented though.

 

[LewTwo]

One more advantage and then I will shut up (well to honest probably I will not).

For a person who is doing their first conversion, getting a complete new front wheel and swapping it allows them the option of putting the old wheel back in place if something does not go as they had planned (but that never happens ... right ?).

 

[Darb]

I appreciate the conversation, even the arguing... means poster here are passionate about this hobby....

I went with a 48v front hub.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebike-Electric-Bike-Conversion-Kit-Front-Hub-Motor-w-20-24-26-28-700C-Rim/151610151588?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=450820464447&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

and a lifepo4 battery.

We'll see how many mistakes I can make with this build....

 

[neptronix]

I went with a 48v front hub.
..
We'll see how many mistakes I can make with this build....

I was talking to the owner of a niche bicycle company the other day, trying to massage him into a deal to sell me his bikes at a discount so i could sell electric versions of them. He told me that 10 years ago, a customer called him from a hospital bed after running a high powered hub motor on the aluminum front suspension forks included. The wheel slipped out from under the front fork and got jammed kind of between the rear wheel and the cranks, and the rider was lucky enough to not be thrown straight forward on his face, but to the side because of this. The rider survived a crash at 30mph because he was wearing a helmet and also fell this way.

The rider tried to sue the bicycle company and obviously lost. The owner has been disinterested in electric bicycles since then, as he didn't understand the engineering problem at hand.

The really crazy thing is that the rider tried the same thing again with a new fork and called from the hospital again :lol: seriously.

I believe this was before torque arms were on the market, but even the best torque arm cannot save an aluminum fork from failure, unless maybe you have exactly 0mm of play in the whole assembly on both sides and zero movement. Maybe then you can be lucky enough to not fall on your face when the aluminum/magnesium material says 'i'm done'.

Your steel fork will have some warning before it fails. It will begin to spread apart, the second you apply the power. Depending on how big of a mistake you want to make, you might want to use torque arms.

 

[rumme]

I think we all agree with Neptronix, that any 500 watt or more hub motor mounted on skinny front aluminum forks, is a no good.

The OP has steel front forks , and is gonna use torque arms and will be using a yescomusa styled hub motor doing around a max of 20 mph. These generic hub motors also have very low torque ratings....I think they are around 30 NMs or less. Its also important to note how the rider uses their motor. In other words, if they apply full throttle from a dead stop, you will of course have way more incidence of damaging dropouts. From the posts made by the O.P., he seems like a logical person and isn't trying to build a 50 mile per hour, hi torque wheelie ebike. He seems to be a casual rider who likes the idea of a ebike for 20 mph or less speeds on flat roads for 20 mile commutes.

If the O.P is as logical as he sounds, I think his rim brakes will be adequate for his needs/ setup as long as he keeps both front and rear brakes working properly. .