Not very happy with my EM3ev emissions-free order

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Yeah, I get it, and believe you that the wheel had no protection at the axle ends. That's not right. But I'm wondering why the wheel was able to move so much in the box as you describe. Was there nothing in the box but the wheel? No corner foam blocks?

Apparently they had to remove the wheel from the box to upgrade the wires? Then omitted the packing materials?

Sounds pretty fixable, the damage. But I'd definitely want something from Paul to make it right. Again, pissing him off with this thread was great strategy for that. :roll:

But if you aren't expecting him to make you whole, then fire away. :twisted:
 
migueralliart said:
SAL shipping was the 2-3 week 100$+ option.
A lot of people go with this one.
Click to expand...

I did the $179 ish DHL 20kg battery service option and got three separate boxes, one for the wheel, one for the battery and one for the hub motor core.
I got the upgraded phase wires and the fit is tight through the axle as well. Gotta zip tie down the cable and not let it rub once it's on the bike.
 
Hi Orlando,

Seller replied somewhat late (days later).
Click to expand...

Below are the emails with dates and times, I replied the next day after receiving your mail, that is not a terrible response time in my opinion and doesn't quite qualify as days later as your comment states. A quick check on times suggests the email was sent 5 mins before the opening post. I have not received a response back from you since my last email. I have not refused to assist, all I asked was that you checked the motor function, to make sure if it is functionally ok or not, it seems it is fully functional from your comments. If it is fully functional then whilst it is a little unfortunate, it is not so serious an issue. I've already taken action to try and avoid this happening again, I can't turn back time so I can only do my best to resolve the issue we now have.

We changed the box style recently for shipping built wheels and this has changed the way it has to be packed. Since receiving your email I've made sure more attention is now being paid to supporting the axle area to hopefully avoid this happening again. Just to clarify, the Motor was not shipped with no protection on the axle, there was corner pieces used to stabilise the wheel in the box. Some protection was used on the axle, but after speaking with my staff, it could (and it will) be done better in future. I do not personally pack every parcel, build every battery and on top of that answer every email by myself. I have several staff and I can't be there all of the time to fuss over every last detail, we do our best and I know they take much more care than most.

Since you haven't responded, how do you know what I am going to do? Can you please detail what you want in order to be satisfied for what you consider to be slightly below par packing and some visible damage on the phase wire? I do appreciate the title just so you can put your point across for Google searches etc, that was a nice touch. Would you like it if I slandered your website http://www.evworkslab.com/ ?

Thanks
Paul


From: Order [mailto:eek:rders@em3ev.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 5:12 PM
To: 'Oxxxxxa'
Subject: RE: Shipping issues kit damaged

Hi Orlando,

If the cable is damaged internally please let me know but I think it should be functional. From the picture it does not appear to have more than cosmetic damage, the underlying cables are not visible, just the external heatshrink has some damage. I know we take immeasurably more care with shipping our parts than any of our suppliers, I can’t see we could do an awful lot more than we already do, shipping a motor in wheel is not the easiest thing to ship.

I suggest DHL is used in future, the cost is not so much more, the service is quicker and better, parcels do not get knocked around as much generally, but Mac built wheels do need to be shipped disassembled and assembled as below.

Mac assembly Procedure for DHL Shipping:
http://sdrv.ms/18ZRiVW

Thanks
Paul


From: XXXX [mailto:XXXXXgmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 8:08 AM
To: Order
Subject: Shipping issues kit damaged

Paul,
My kit arrived damaged. This is the first kit I receive this way. The others were packed appropriately but this one arrived with 2 holes on both sides. Also it seems there is some damage on the phases from being dropped. This is my first issue with shipping. I'll check later if the phases are shorted. I have not connected anything yet and nor will until I check the phases.
See the pictures attached.
Regards,
xxxxxx
 
The email was sent JULY 2nd and it was responded on the 4th.


I'm not slandering or bashing your website.

I'm entitled to say on an OPEN FORUM that is what I received and my experience with the order.

After several successful orders I know what I used to get from your website.

This time was different. The packing job wasn't well done. Working out a deal wont cut it because in the end there is no way to be satisfied with a hub motor that has a handicapped yellow phase. The only way to fix it is to open the heat shrink then solder a bit of wire to substitute the copper that's missing.

I think it is somewhat funny that the whole purpose of this order was to test out the new upgraded phases. It doesn't make sense to send a hub motor all across the world without protecting what makes it special.

I'm pretty able to fix this and any other problems I have but just think of it this way;


What if my sole means of transportation was an ebike?

What if the person that bought this kit really depended on it being delivered carefully and truly plug and play?


I didn't start this thread to bash anybody's reputation. I did it as a review to show what I got. And the truth is all I got was an IMPROPERLY PACKED KIT.

That's it. There is NO OTHER WAY TO PUT IT.

And to your comment about the protection on the axle.

Let me just say it again.

There was no protection or packaging material to protect the axle or motor part. The only thing was the box that was it. Yes there were corners and protective foaming in the rim but the axle and the entire wheel could move inside the box sideways thus the results shown in the images.

I can assure you there was nothing in there.



Titling this thread wasn't even on purpose. That was the first thing I though of when I clicked Create thread. It has NOTHING to do with Google searches and what not.

I don't know what evworkslab.com has to do with any of this but to your comment;

If someone has a problem with any of the orders on my website they have all their right to post it on the forums or anywhere else online. If they had a bad experience then it is the truth and it can be shared.
 
This sort of response is why Cellman remains on the very short list of the best vendors. Instead of blowing the problem off, he's going to take steps to fix the packing problem so it never happens again. Other china vendors would just put you on ignore, tell you to ship it back, etc, and keep on shipping with crappy packing.

FWIW, the best packed motors I ever received had a taller box. With or without axle end packing material, the best box is taller than the length of the axle. The worst packed had a skinny box, narrower than the axle is long. Shipped by good ol Wilderness Energy, they always came with the axle sticking out through the hole.
 
Thanks for your feedback, it was acted upon when I received your first email. When I have a chance I will post up some info regarding how we typically pack kits, but as that will take some time to prepare, I'll just do a quick response now.

If a problem occurs, I get it resolved. If the customer is able to work through in getting it resolved, we'll work together and most are understanding enough to do that. If they don't have the skills or are unwilling to help, we need to find another way. As you are in the category of unable/unwilling to assist. I will arrange a new inner motor and speak to my courier and arrange collection of the inner motor. Please remove the inner motor structure from the hub and we will arrange a replacement inner motor to be shipped to you. If you are able to also remove the clutch, good, it will save a little on shipping costs, if not, let me know, send it back with clutch as well. The motor assembly procedure is in the link below, dis assembly is simply the reverse of the below.

Mac assembly Procedure for DHL Shipping:
http://sdrv.ms/18ZRiVW

Please let me know via email when the parts are ready for collection, or maybe you have a Local Fedex office you could drop the parts off at? We will likely use Fedex for collection. Please pack the parts well, but please keep volume to the minimum to avoid unnecessary shipping costs, as Fedex will charge by the volume if over sized.

Thanks for everything, I'm off to bed soon as it is almost 11pm here.
Paul
 
Paul,

With all due respect.

I said before I'm able to fix this. Unfortunately it is the type of situation where it is not worth my time to disassemble this thing pack it again and get it shipped to you even at your cost. I'll fix the phase wire and consider this deal the last one from my end.

The reason I say it is not worth my time is because I'm moving and as a result I really really don't have time to go thru with hacking the brand new wheel hub into pieces to ship it when it should've been plug and play and I shouldn't have to go thru this.

I'm somewhat thankful for your response but I can't justify sending the inner motor because of a bad phase. It is definitely not worth the effort.

I hope that nobody else in the future will have to go thru this and wish every single forum user and client of yours the same luck I got when I ordered before.

This was hopefully an isolated incident like someone mentioned before.

Regards,
Orlando
 
^^^ what he said

tbh, I think a mod should either del this thread, or re-name it so it's not going to effect google searches for emissions free

if the title/post has been something along the lines of...

my order wasn't packed right, what should I do?
my order wasn't packed right, do you think they'll sort it out for me?
my order wasn't packed right, has anyone had this problem before ?

etc. etc. then it would have been fair enough



when I have to deal with people like this at work, we pickup whatever we delivered, give them a full refund, then I block them from ever ordering again, and I keep track of deliveries local to them in case they try to order to a friends address around the corner, and track names so they can't have it delivered to a family member.... it's just not worth the hassle of dealing with people like this
 
If they do then this is not a true OPEN FORUM is it?

The title is a review from my order it wasn't YOUR order.

I didn't say anything wrong or lied. I showed pictures of the damage and the vendor offered his solutions. Why should a MOD change anything in this thread. There isn't any swearing or disrespecting people here.
 
the thread title and your first posts give the wrong impression

the wheel wasn't packaged properly, it's a small error, the this thread makes it look like something much more than that

it also gives the impression that the vender wasn't replying to your emails and/or was unwilling to help



I'm all for fair/open debate and reviews of vendors, but it's not fair or right to use the forum to try and strong arm a vendor into doing what you want, before you even give them a chance to reply and/or fix the problem for you
 
i read the whole thread and thought some time if i should post or not. saying anything bad about well known sellers or posters with a high post always ends in bashing.

so i see it from a far overhead view:

yes. this could have been addressed to paul alone, and the result would have been the very same.
yes. the op is correct. he just stated that the packaging was no sufficient. paul himself said that this has to be improved.

was it necessary to make thread about? possibly not.
was it senseless? by no means. there was nothing wrong written, the op didn't use bad wording, or insulting, and it's the subforum about reviews. and the op reviewed his buying/shipping experience. it can be used to make things better.

so we all should maybe agree that it was a non optimal buying experience, those things can happen, and paul will improve his shipping on motors. everyone taking the time to read this thread can make his own opinion and i'm sure it will NOT be to paul's disadvantage.
 
I have to say my dealings with Paul were all positive, he goes well beyond his call of duty to help people. And I couldn't tank him enough for his support and for answering all my e-mails.

Even when I killed my mac by running it well above it's power limits he helped me as best he could from such a distance.

I have to say I highly recommend Paul and em3ev.com
 
I was REALLY a EM3ev shill, I could just delete the entire thread. But I'm not his shill. I could edit the thread titles too, but I won't. Each of you that posted could edit the thread title of your post if you wish. Though the vendor might not love the google search results for awhile, I bet this thread just gets buried in more positive threads pretty soon. And if somebody reads the whole thread, they get more plus than minus from reading it anyway. Stuff happens, and it's good that it gets reported here. It shows how a vendors CS operates when we see how a problem gets handled. Sometimes the problem order tells more about a vendor than hundreds of no problem orders.
 
Most of the hub motors I have purchased - numbering in the 100's at this point - poke the axles out the sides of the box after only a day or two of shipping. You chose to have your motor endure WEEKS of shipping to save a few dollars, unless this is your first motor I don't know why you are surprised. Since the wheel was packed with standard corner mounts supporting the rim, I am not sure why you are trying to spin it like it had no protection at all.

If this was a NEW vendor who did something really strange, hadn't responded for a week or so (China has different holidays from us), coins seemed intent on ripping off other E:S members, I would applaud your efforts to alert the community. However, this is an established vendor with a great track record who would work with you given half a chance, your post here is stupid.

Given that this is common damage exacerbated by your choice of shipping, you posted here 5 minutes after your email, and the extremely minor nature of damaged phase wires, it comes off like you are trying to strongarm Paul by threatening his reputation. I've experienced that here, and I HATE BUYERS LIKE THAT. :twisted:

The good news - Kharma's a bitch.
 
dogman said:
I was REALLY a EM3ev shill, I could just delete the entire thread. But I'm not his shill. I could edit the thread titles too, but I won't. Each of you that posted could edit the thread title of your post if you wish. Though the vendor might not love the google search results for awhile, I bet this thread just gets buried in more positive threads pretty soon. And if somebody reads the whole thread, they get more plus than minus from reading it anyway. Stuff happens, and it's good that it gets reported here. It shows how a vendors CS operates when we see how a problem gets handled. Sometimes the problem order tells more about a vendor than hundreds of no problem orders.
Click to expand...
+1
 
I'm happy for all the people that have been taking this thread as maturely as possible.

I feel sad for the ones that seem to be a bit too fanatic and try to knock other peoples real experiences saying I exaggerated this.

Fact is non of you got a damaged hub motor shipped from Paul and like I said I'm really really happy for that. I did not and showed proof of it and for that I get all this heat.

I'm the kind of customer who only needs one mistake like this to stop buying from a seller. Luckily there are other options and nobody is forcing people in this forum to pursue any given option.

I'll leave this thread alone now but just wanted to say that to all the people who have NO REASON to say you HATE customers like me and etc.

Whatever peace out to all you all and best of luck with your ebike endeavors.
 
One of the more important lessons I have learned ordering stuff from abroad is to contact the seller FIRST before you make public comments. Then they have a chance to respond and fix the problem. Most will. If with repeated attempts to contact the seller fail or they refuse to help, then and only then should a general post be made here. Otherwise the OP is shooting both themselves and the seller in the foot. I have rarely had this system fail. A good example of a disreputable seller is the Planet Bike situation, where some research disclosed a crooked seller. They are out there but not in large numbers.
I'm off my soapbox now.
otherDoc
 
About an hour ago the nice DHL lady dropped off three packages from Paul - my MAC order!

All the boxes were in perfect condition (I won't trouble you with pictures of cardboard boxes, foam wrap, and packing tape - but there was a mountain of it). The boxes were quality double-thick corrugated cardboard. All individual items in the boxes were individually wrapped in two to three layers of foam wrap (not bubble wrap) and completely wrapped in packing tape (Paul must own stock in a tape supplier...). Any spare space in the boxes was stuffed full of cut slabs of cardboard or (strangely) heavy paper auto brochures - there was zero free space for things to rock 'n' roll and have a wild party in transit.

As noted on his page, the motor/wheel came disassembled with the wheel/outer hub in its own double-thick box. The wheel proper was double spiral wrapped in foam wrap (woven and taped between the spokes) to avoid cosmetic damage. The motor came in a two-piece molded foam block in another double-thick shipping box along with controllers, charger, and other stuff. The two halves of the block were taped together and the stator/rotor/endplate/axle assembly with wiring was completely and safely encased in the block. Custom batteries came in a third reinforced box - each battery was triple wrapped in foam and had a generous truckload of packing tape completely covering it. Even more sized cardboard and foam sheets protected the batteries all around in the box.

Needless to say, all the items were completely undamaged and factory-fresh.
I could not be happier with the speed of delivery or the quality of packaging which I would characterize as outstanding.

That's it. Impromptu report. Off to rub my hands together, make yummie sounds, and fondle the nice new toys...
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Very happy to hear successful stories.
Mine was not that case. Interesting that you mention foam. My order didn't came with any foam whatsoever. The corner boxes were all cardboard. The controller was tied securely to the spokes and throttle as well.

This was the only thing protecting the wheel.

They were flaky and not holding it sturdy.

13733286648331_zpsa2df159a.jpg


View of the holes inside the box.

13733286573470_zps88f4eeb3.jpg
 
I'm going against the grain here, but I feel that this thread was not wrongfully titled. Orlando made a purchase from EM3ev and was not very happy with it and titled it so. Seems straightforward. I'm not one for sweeping crap under the rug. Keep it real. :mrgreen:

"Bad publicity is still publicity" runs true for this thread. Many searchers may find it, but they will also find Paul's response and they will also find the numerous posts that indicate a general level of satisfaction with Paul's offerings.

I have ordered from cell_man before and must say that his packaging is the very best that I have ever received with respect to ebike parts. Having said that, I'm not surprised that this isolated incident ocurred. Shit happens... how we deal with it shows our real character.

Looking at the cardboard box corners, I have a hard time believing that Paul sent this out based on the quality of shipments that I had previously received. But since he doesn't personally do every package, random issues may occur.

My example: It seems as everyone that had ordered from Jason at e-bikekit.com was happy with their order so I also tried them. I had nothing but problems with the first wheel and it turned out to be an isolated incident (crappy wheel build from a 'problem' wheel builder they employed). I posted my problem here on ES. Jason took care of the issue and now there is record of that occurring.

How will people know that they are dealing with someone that is responsive to their CS needs if all "issues" were handled privately. These are not mundane 'lost it shipment' or 'late shipment' issues, these are 'quality' issues.

I feel that cell_man is quite responsive to ES emails, but they generally take 24-48 hours for first response and then he is very good once the issue is brought to attention. One thing that people should consider is that Paul is already working on a thin margin with high shipping costs. So he will work with you to reduce your costs, but getting him to ship you a replacement back and forth is tough. So, some work on your part might be needed.
 
el_walto said:
Yes, this order did not get packed as well as most of them do, but is the motor even really damaged?
Click to expand...

I didn't say the motor was damaged.

I said the yellow phases on this upgraded motor have been damaged. This motor has 2 phase cables per color. One of the cables for the yellow phase has a few copper threads left and the one behind it is scratched.

I was really lucky the halls were OK. If the phases were damaged out of the axle inlet I would have no problem. But they were not. Instead the motor layed on top of the pinched phases therefore the damage is really really close to the axle exit.
 
Hi Orlando,

As you have elected to not take my offer of replacing the inner motor I have sent a replacement axle with phase wire fitted and all the necessary bits to change out the phase wire. Fitting the cable into the Axle is pretty tricky, so simpler to just include the axle too. I have already emailed and will follow up with tracking info when we have it.

For clarification, the upgrade motor is not just bigger phase wires, the motor also uses a higher grade stator and has a temp sensor installed which can be interfaced to the V3 CA (with some CA mods). We do the phase wires and fit into custom axles Mac get especially built for us. We supply the assembled phase and shaft to Mac as they will not entertain doing this rather tricky job for us. We pay extra for the service of fitting this modded shaft, we also pay extra for the higher grade stators.

If you follow steps up to point 7 in the below procedure you can remove the shaft:

Mac Stator Removal Procedure:
http://sdrv.ms/11eyBso

Solder the replacement cable and affix them with the supplied epoxy, ensuring the cables are clear of the side cover, it is quite a tight fit. A good way to check clearance is drop the side cover onto the motor, spin it and confirm there is no contact. Best to leave some stubs of the old phase wire and hall wires connected when they are snipped so that connections are not mixed up when the new cable is fitted.

Today was another busy day, I haven't had a chance to prepare something regarding how we ship kits. I'll make sure and give everyone the low down when I can.

All the best
Paul
 
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