onboard charging system

[latecurtis]

My bike can go about twenty miles and about 20 miles per hour top speed. I am running 3 - 22Ah max life lead batteries.
Is there any way to increase the Ah so I can go 50 or 100 miles with this set up by using an alternator to recharge my batteries as I am riding. The voltage would have to increase from 12 to 36 volts and the amps would have to go from 60 or 80 down to 5 or 6 amps or something like that. Has anyone ever tried.
Also as it would not be an e bike anymore if I used a gas motor. Was thinking about getting a small one for riding long distances out of town and using the electric one in town so I don't piss off the cops. say 50 miles on gas and twenty on electric. But first I want to know if the alternator would work. I don't want a gas motor. I don't want any more lead ass batteries either. Maby some lipo packs if the price ever goes down on them so they are as affordable as lead.
Whats next after lipo. Is there anything new being developed. Basically how many lipos would I need to go 100 miles. or 80 miles farther than I can go now with the three lead batteries. I have a 36 volt system. Are the cheapest batteries still hobby king. Also those batteries are not going to get me exactly 36 volts. I don't think I can go over that so maby have to go a little under. Let me know about external battery packs and the alternator idea. Thanks

sincerely latecurtis

 

[bowlofsalad]

My bike can go about twenty miles and about 20 miles per hour top speed. I am running 3 - 22Ah max life lead batteries.
Is there any way to increase the Ah so I can go 50 or 100 miles with this set up by using an alternator to recharge my batteries as I am riding. The voltage would have to increase from 12 to 36 volts and the amps would have to go from 60 or 80 down to 5 or 6 amps or something like that. Has anyone ever tried.
Also as it would not be an e bike anymore if I used a gas motor. Was thinking about getting a small one for riding long distances out of town and using the electric one in town so I don't piss off the cops. say 50 miles on gas and twenty on electric. But first I want to know if the alternator would work. I don't want a gas motor. I don't want any more lead ass batteries either. Maby some lipo packs if the price ever goes down on them so they are as affordable as lead.
Whats next after lipo. Is there anything new being developed. Basically how many lipos would I need to go 100 miles. or 80 miles farther than I can go now with the three lead batteries. I have a 36 volt system. Are the cheapest batteries still hobby king. Also those batteries are not going to get me exactly 36 volts. I don't think I can go over that so maby have to go a little under. Let me know about external battery packs and the alternator idea. Thanks

sincerely latecurtis

They say you get what you pay for. Lead acid batteries are pretty terrible when you look at them from a power density and cycle life perspective, they have a pretty terrible value. Lipo, lifepo4 and NCA type battery packs might seem more costly upfront, but they will give you a whole lot more in the long term.

What you might be able to do though is get yourself a sort of all in one gas powered inverter. http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EF1000iS-4-Stroke-Generator-Compliant/dp/B002RWK9LY/ Here is an example of one. Plug your ebike battery charger into one of these and it might work out, I don't know for sure though, I've never tried.

 

[cal3thousand]

The alternator idea violates the laws of thermodynamics.

If it were possible to get free additional energy out of your batteries by using an alternator, we'd ALL be using them. That alternator trades motion energy in order to create electrical energy. To get the motion energy, you need battery energy or pedal energy to convert. See how this is going all in a circle? In a car, it is harvesting motion energy in your motor that is normally wasted. Actually, saying that the alternator harvests lost energy is still a lie because the alternator puts an additional load on your ICE (Internal Combustion Engine), requiring more fuel to be converted.

 

[Marcus Bullock]

I'm looking for some opinions from people on what the best battery charger is for charging a trolling motor battery. A lot of the new chargers don't fully charge the battery from it being completly dead. Also do onboard marine chargers charge the battery completly after the battery has been dead and what are some of the better onboard chargers for a 12V system.

 

[Kingfish]

^ The best way to recharge a dead 12V battery is to buy a new one and start over. :wink:

Lead Acid batteries can come back to life, but it will shorten their usability. If it's completely dead and won't hold a charge, there are tricks with unsealed batteries where you can add acid back to the cells - and it may work for awhile longer. A better plan is to never let the battery go completely dead. I don't know how often you fish (presuming the use of a trolling motor), but when the boat is stored, consider using a small solar panel to keep a trickle charge going. My folks do that to their RV when it's parked for the winter; a small 2x1 solar panel placed in the window that points towards a southern exposure provides enough to keep two large deep cycle batteries leveled nicely.

To the OP, don't bother with the alternator; you can't pedal hard enough to make your distance AND charge the battery. Personally, I'd ditch the Lead Acid batteries and purchase LiPo because it will weight significantly less, meaning that you could carry more battery which will increase your range. You could also carry a strong charger with you having a 600 to 1kW capacity and then recharge at your destination if they had an available outlet. I've done it both ways and each has their merits.

With the wind, KF

 

[latecurtis]

This is expensive but would it actually do the job. For one thing would the batteries be able to charge at a rate that would allow me to continue to ride for long distances if I were to slow down to a minimum speed of say 3 to 5 miles per hour for periods of time so that the batteries would charge slightly faster than they are discharging.
Obviously that wont happen all the time as I will be going up hill sometimes and I have a bad right knee that needs surgery and cannot pedal at all up hill or much at all. but considering level ground and down hill will this thing theoretically be able to keep the bike rolling until it runs out of gas without taking too many rest breaks on a 100 mile round road trip. That's of course starting out with a full charge.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EF1000iS-4-Stroke-Generator-Compliant/dp/B002RWK9LY/

This would easily fit into my back basket and would save me the trouble of switching expensive lipo packs every 20 miles. Yes I know that lead batteries are obsolete and very heavy but they do serve a purpose besides powering the motor. Their weight actually stabilizes the bike due to the fact I mounted them in the triangle with two towards the front. This allows me to be able to haul up to 50 pounds in the large basket I have on the back without the front steering becoming shaky, or the front wheel lifting off the ground as I weigh about 245 and with 50 additional pounds in the back without those lead batteries the bike would be very unstable.
Also The bike rides more like a crotch rocket with the batteries being where a gas motor would be. The bike on smooth pavement will be stable up to 35 or 40 mph if in the future I upgrade the motor and controller to 48 volts or more. Please give me feedback on this as it is one of my more serious posts and will appreciate any information on increasing my range. Range is more important than speed right now. Are there any similar products out there like the one above that will do the same or better for less money. Thanks latecurtis

 

[latecurtis]

This model is a better bang for the buck. Where can I get a 36 volt battery charger that will put out enough amps to keep the bike going. How many amps will I need to cruise about 10 mph on flat ground without the batteries losing charge but gaining some charge. I understand that when traveling 100 miles round trip I will lose charge going up steep hills and I may have to stop a few times for 15 minute breaks. But will it work? and will a 10 amp charger be enough or will I need more



https://www.google.com/shopping/product/8740322536246503134?q=onboard+generators&sa=X&ei=qK29U6fPD8zc8AXZtoLYDQ&ved=0CDAQrRI

 

[latecurtis]

found this but want similar item cheaper.

http://www.batterymart.com/p-oem-36116-36-volt-15-amp-charger.html

Like to get a 10 to 15 amp charger for about the same price as the generator I posted above on the other post. Also don't know if I have room for both. was hopeing for a smaller 36 volt charger at 10 to 15 amps.
please help. thanks. latecurtis

 

[latecurtis]

Also the combined weight for both units should not exceed 50 pounds by much. definitely needs to be under 60 pounds. My back basket wont take more weight than that. Please help. I want to take a road trip which will be 100 miles round trip. I don't want any more lead batteries or expensive lipo packs I have to stop and switch every few miles.

 

[slacker]

maybe you should look for a small motorcycle as that will better suit your needs as all that weight will be to much for a bicycle. or maybe a pedal kayak for the pool jump?jmo

 

[bowlofsalad]

Also the combined weight for both units should not exceed 50 pounds by much. definitely needs to be under 60 pounds. My back basket wont take more weight than that. Please help. I want to take a road trip which will be 100 miles round trip. I don't want any more lead batteries or expensive lipo packs I have to stop and switch every few miles.

If you can't carry the heavy version of a gas powered inverter on your bike (or cover the cost of the lighter version), you could probably look around online for a used bicycle trailer and put the heavy version of the gas inverter on that. There are often plenty for sale that will easily carry one of those larger, heavier gas inverters and you can get them for an impressively low price.

The faster you go, and the faster you accelerate, the more power you will consume. If you don't have one already, I recommend getting a cycleanalyst. With a cycleanalyst, you can gain some level of understanding about the consumption of power on your bike, and you can also set some healthy, range extending limits on the bike. I use a 3 speed switch and I programmed my medium level to keep me at around 20mph (a little more with my pack fresh off the charger). Going slower and accelerating slower are both good things for range. I might suggest a low amp limit for your bike, but I don't know how well that would work out for you while carrying a huge amount weight and climbing hills with zero pedaling.

Beyond that, tires that were made for road riding and inflated to their appropriate pressure will also help. By road riding, I don't mean the super skinny tires weight weenies might use. I just mean a smooth tread, instead of knobbies.

Various chargers have different outputs, you can certainly get a charger that will be able to put out far more power into your pack and still have a bit left over to, potentially, keep you going at a reasonable speed.

If you can ever swing the cost, I'd suggest looking into a lowracer recumbent and getting http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=134 one of these packs (22ah version). Recumbent bicycles are incredibly more comfortable and they have an aerodynamic advantage compared to an upright bicycle which means you need less energy to maintain a certain speed.

 

[DAND214]

Your gonna need more than a 1000watt generator to power that charger. maybe something like this https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...s&sa=X&ei=bBO-U4zrHcipyASTuIDwAw&ved=0CCkQrhI You tow it and put the charger in the basket.
Or you could spend the money on a good battery pack. 36v 30ah at the 10 to 15 mph you are talking about would give you 60 miles without a problem. A 36v 22Ah LiPo pack will give you more than double the milage you get from LEAD!

I went 19 miles today on less than 5ah, average speed was 12mph. Milage per Ah varies from rider to rider and bikes. A good tail wind helps and headwind kills you if going very fast.

Throw away those lead things aget a good battery and charger.
OH and a good saddle.

Dan

 

[dogman dan]

WRONG That's a generator big enough to run my house.


He wants to run a 10 amps, 36v load. About 800w. Perfect for a 1000w generator.
But I already warned him not to hook a 10 amp charger to a lead battery only 22 ah. It will wreck it fast to run that much into it. But 5-6 amps might work ok.

 

[teslanv]

How about a nice big 36V 60Ah battery made with Leaf cells?
This would only require (5) 2S2P packs to build ~$600, and no modding to the packs.
As far as Lithium is concerned, the Nissan Leaf cells are the kings of economy when lifetime charge cycles are considered.
And at over 2kWh of capacity, assuming you can get an efficiency of 20 wh/mile, that should get you your 100 miles without the need for on-board charging.
http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/in...leaf-battery-module-model-2012-new&Itemid=605

 

[cal3thousand]

Where are you going to be riding out of town? Where there are no electric plugs available? In that case, if you are venturing, I would suggest a trailer with the smallest generator you can find. If not, and you are still in civilization, I would just bring a convenience charger.

 

[latecurtis]

found this one. less than 40 pounds about 46 pounds with a gallon of gas.

http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators/900-peak800-running-watts-2-hp-63cc-gas-generator-60338-9057.html

this is the only charger that I could find at a reasonable price that is 36 volts at 6 amps but it is a lithium charger. Will it work for my lead batteries

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/310939426889?lpid=82

still looking for smaller generators. 36 volts at 6 amps is 216 watts. This should keep the bike rolling. maby have to stop for a few minutes after going up a long hill but that's ok. I can live with that but could use a smaller generator. no need for anything over 300 watts to run it. is it possible to make my own generator out of a small chainsaw or weed eater motor. I know someone who is into small engines.

 

[latecurtis]

13 pounds empty about 22 pounds with a gallon of gas. imagine that

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=613491

will the lipo charger work on the lead batteries

 

[latecurtis]

Bill Hoffman
House of Generators
1661 Gothard St, #D
Huntington Beach, CA 92647

714-375-1742
Fax 714-375-2106

under $350 with shipping for the generator and the charger if it will work and almost any e bike will go about 100 miles.

Please check this out and verify everything before I order. I dont want to order the charger if it wont work. thanks

 

[latecurtis]

Wow if I get that and the small 6 amp charger I will still have enough room in my back basket for a twelve pack of cold beer. maybe even a mini cooler.
got to stop once in awhile and have a cold beer when on a 100 mile road trip. Now I am looking for a bike seat which is comfortable and has a back rest.
these are the only upgrades I will need. Please let me know what you thaik about the power pony tm/mini generator which is about half way down on the link above for $260 plus shipping. and if the 36 volt 6a lipo charger wont work then please send me a link for a 36 volt 6 amp charger that will work and does not weigh over 10 pounds. This information should be very useful to any ES members who want extended long range without the hassle of switching lipo packs or pulling a trailor. If my basket hauls 50 pounds of laundry or 60 dollars worth of groceries it will defenetally carry a generator that only weighs about 22 pounds with a gallon of gas and a 5 or 10 pound charger. thanks and don't forget let me know what you all think. latecurtis out.

 

[teslanv]

Hauling a generator and gas to charge an SLA battery sounds like the most ridiculous idea I have read on this forum. Am I the only one who thinks this is blasphemy here?

 

[Matt Gruber]

my vote is for $600 in Leaf cells. they could last for years and be quieter too!

 

[dogman dan]

A 350w generator is a good size, but a 6 amps charger will pull awful hard on it. If possible, turn the charger down to 5 amps, so it runs about 100w less than the 350w rating

Generators don't like running at their max watts. Many will list 5000w, but then have a rating of 4000w continuous, or something like that.

It's a tiny two stroke, so brace yourself for listening to a leaf blower for 100 miles. I couldn't do it. But maybe you can McGuyver a better muffler for it.

The lithium charger won't hurt the lead, as long as it's not overcharging them. So dial in the voltage too if the charger has adjustment pots inside.

 

[latecurtis]

The 13 pound generator empty may be ordered but I still need advice on the 36 volt 6 amp lipo charger. Will it work for the lead batteries. Please let me know as I am moving on. I started a new forum but you don't need to lock it as it talks about tires and seats not onboard charging. different subject. I wont start more than one thread on the same subject anymore.
The other thing I like about that little 300 watt generator with a 6 amp charger is this. 36 volts * 6 amps = 216 watts = 84 watts left over which will be going into a portable stereo system. An older lasonic or similar ghetto blaster will be mounted to a bracket on the rear of the basket and it will be internally wired to a mini sub woofer from a computer or surround sound speaker system.
It should have enough power to drown out the sound of the generator.
A friend of mine works on small engines and maby be able to hook up a muffler to the generator to make it more quiet. or he may be able to build me a generator from a weed whacker motor, not shure yet. I will have to talk to him about it. Please let me know about the charger. 6 amps should keep the bike rolling 7 to 10 mph on the flat and will be fully charging down hills. after going uphill for a mile or more I will most likely stop for a 10 or 15 minute beer break anyway so the charger can catch up. Wow your post popped up just now. ok I got it, scratch the onboard stereo then. I will still have one but can use rechargeable d batteries for that and not hook it up to the generator. My friend mike is into small engines and can quiet the exhaust. I agree with you about the noise. it must be minimal. will 5 amps keep the bike rolling at 5 to 7 mph on the flat. the bike is around 100 pounds with the lead and I am 240. The generator and other accessories including beer will go about 60 pounds for a total weight of around 400 pounds. 36 * 5 = 180 watts. what am I looking at. I don't mind stopping for a beer now and then but would like to know how many times and for how long each time if I were to average around 10 mph on the flat. Is there an accurate device that will let me know how much charge is in the batteries as that would help. I know that dealing with lead batteries that the closer they are to full charge the better for long life. I would like them to stay well above 50 % at all times if possible. That's why I want the onboard charging system. Thanks for the advice dogman and let me know if you have any more answers. from reading your previous posts you do travel long distances on your e bike. Is that correct. thanks latecurtis.

 

[zEEz]

http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-11613-Portable-Generator-Compliant/product-reviews/B00FL89I2W/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

my vote is for this

 

[latecurtis]

zeez thanks. no doubt it is only 9 pounds heavier and about the same price with almost triple the output. I would be able to run a 300 watt car amp a small subwoofer and some efficient full range speakers and the 36 amp charger all at the same time. 36 * 6 = 216 + 300 = 516 which is well under the 800 watts the generator puts out as dogman has a good point not to push the limit on a generator. Thanks zeez your a genius and I will be ordering that in the future.