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Outlaw SS? Stromer ST1? What to get?

Chalega

1 mW
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
11
Hi guys, I know this forum is more for DIY people, but I think it is the only place where I can find people who can give their opinions on e-bikes in the market. I decided a few weeks ago that I want to buy an electric bike, but just can't figure out which one the get and the information / reviews out there are really scarce. My budget is up to $3500 and looking to ride around 4 miles one way to university in Manhattan.

Prodeco Outlaw SS:
- just can't find many reviews on that bike, seems like its a new company and newer product.
- it seems to have a mountain bike type of design, but I want to ride it only on roads

Stromer ST1:
- seems like a more established company, better quality components
- no throttle! Come on! But I want an opinion on this, does this mean a lot of effort is required? Will I be drenched in sweat after a 4 mile ride?

Any other suggestions welcome. But please do give your opinion!
 
Here's a review of the Stromer, everything I've read about them reports they are a quality product that performs well. If you set the pedal-assist to max power, you will not be sweating. ES member green machine wrote that review.
http://www.electricbike.com/stromer-st1/

I have no experience with the Prodeco.

edit, Manhattan is flat, and your commute is 4 miles each way, so just about any kit will work. For about $1,000, you can get a kit and battery that will work well. It's my understanding that new York has a ban on electric bikes, so you may want to consider riding something that's "stealthy", and doesn't scream out that it's electric.

Here's a build from Kepler with the unobtrusive mid-size Bafang rear hub (350W?), hard to tell it's electric and at 48V performs well on flat land.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47139&start=225#p735308
 
Thanks so much for that! Really leaning on the Outlaw SS so far to be honest, as you mentioned - short and flat ride, nothing serious. Plus, I think I'd really like a throttle. You think it will go to the 28mph it claims with 750W of power? How fast would it reach that speed on just throttle, any way to estimate?
 
Prodeco Outlaw SS Electric Bike Review

http://electricbikereport.com/prodeco-outlaw-ss-electric-bike-review/
 
There's an increasing number of E-bikes sold that have both a PAS (Pedal Assist Sensor), and a throttle. It's my understanding that when you are pedaling, the controller takes its instructions from the PAS, but if you start to use the throttle, the throttle signal over-rides the PAS signal.

I recommend for you to have a PAS bike, since E-bikes are supposedly "illegal" in New York, that way you will be pedaling all the time, and there's no way for you to accidentally be seen by a police officer zipping by at 25-MPH without pedaling. The fine probably isn't bad, but from my experince in New York, they would likely confiscate your E-bike.

I'm told a PAS is cheap to buy and easy to install, if you have a controller that supports PAS-operation. But to be honest, I have no experience with a PAS.

If you get the Prodeco Outlaw, I recommend immediately trying to fabricate battery-box mounts to attach the pack inside the frame triangle, or in the "front basket" position. Having the weight of BOTH the motor and the battery on the back is bad for the bikes' handling, which was one of the benefits of the Stromer.

IMHO, The Stromer is like an Apple laptop, it costs more, but many people like it's features. There is nothing wrong with the Prodeco, but...A comparable kit and battery from ebikekit.com or em3ev.com will be under $1,000, so...you are paying $1,150-ish for a bike with a $150 frame, $100 forks, and...at a 20% profit margin of ~$400, The Prodeco would be a fair deal at $1,600 (if they have good customer service). At $2,100, it is my opinion that companies like Prodeco are persuading a lot of potential customers to buy kits ($1,000 profit per bike that is shipped to your house and you have to assemble?).
 
As for 750w, if the thing has a 9 c type motor and 20 amps controller with 51v, it will produces real world 1200w more or less.

Cruising full throttle, it will draw about 900w on average.

For stealth, nothing beats a big dinner plate of a motor, and riding fast. :wink: But they do have to catch you, to ticket you. :twisted: Like most places, I bet they don't really care what you ride if you are riding nice.
 
Manhattan is flat, really? Not if you ride bridge approaches and I can assure you there's a small yet certain uphill grade almost the entire 8th Ave northbound. At least from Houston to the 70-80's.

OP, I've seen a few Stromer's around here and while eBikes are technically illegal (so are many things here) the fear is more "chicken little" than genuine concern.

4 miles is not bad but the roads are. You might wanna go to Chinatown and ask around for somebody who sells eBikes delivery riders use? I think they sell for between $800-$1200 and they're built like tanks.

I'd think twice before parking and leaving a $2,000-$3500 bike on the streets around here. Especially, near university/school.
 
I agree you don't want your ebike to stand out. The delivery people do a good job at hiding that their bikes are electric. NYC looks like a fun place for ebikes. Lots to see and do without using gas.
 
Guys, thank you so much for all the feedback and opinions. I really love this forum!! :)

I'm pretty sure about getting the Outlaw at this point. I know it's overpriced, but comes with warranty, etc and their support has been really fantastic. I really like the company based on the communication we've had. And I really don't have the time and energy to do it myself, so I don't mind paying the $500 premium.

I'm wondering though - all of the Prodeco bikes seem to have a 'mountain bike' type of design. Will this hold me back on the road? I mean as long as I have the throttle it shouldn't really matter right, not like I'm expending extra energy to carry the extra weight and aerodynamic load.
 
I would recommend full suspension. NYC has bumpy roads and suspension will keep you from crashing in bumpy turns, in the winter, and when breaking hard over bumps, and make you a lot more comfortable.

For security you will be fine with a heavy chainlock like a kryptonite 995, or a similar heavier duty version.
https://www.google.com/search?q=kry...08,d.dmQ&fp=61312bd676fb3019&biw=1221&bih=737

Abus actually makes a really heavy duty chain with an Alarm that is activated with motion! Its designated as a motorcycle product but i think it has similar chain thickness to the safest bicycle chain locks. I have one for our A2B ebike
 
Okay, I just came across MANY more options in my budget. Decided to hold off on my decision. Currently considering:
1] Phoenix Paratrooper - http://www.electricrider.com/electricrider/options.htm
2] HPC Cruiser - http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?productId=36&categoryId=8
3] Neo Race - http://www.emotionbikesusa.com/ebikes/EN803
4] Outlaw SS

Now, I don't really have any way of picking between all of these :( Only thing I can gauge is that the Neo Race is the most appealing to my eye, lol (but then it's only 20 mph). Will have to study these in more detail, but they all seem like great options! Any owners of any of these? Any thoughts?
 
I would rule out the HPC cruiser... its over priced. And it lacks disk brakes! Rim brakes you'll have to replace pads often and adjust the tension of the cable very often. Disk brakes last many times longer than rim brakes and maintain good stopping power even when they get wet from rain.

For 20mph I recommend the emoto delta. You should be able to talk them down to $1700. We have the previous model, ridge 3.0(see link in my sig) its been our favorite production ebike, really comfy suspension and otherwise decent all around. The newer Delta has a bit more power.
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Long.Island.Electric.Bikes.631-306-4542/picture/view/4312397
 
Checked out the eMoto, but no throttle :(

Its a hard decision to make, the Neo Race seems to be a far superior design, is much lighter and much better overall, but I'm worried about it being 350Watts vs the 750Watts on the Outlaw SS and 1200W Phoenix paratrooper. One of my concerns is acceleration and purely going by my high school physics knowledge, the acceleration I can get will be proportional to the wattage, right? In that case it will be hard to beat the Phoenix paratrooper!

Any other products that are thin / lightweight but also powerful?
 
If you are looking for the outlaw to go on trails, It will be super rickety in the battery mount because it is not full suspension. If you don't care about full suspension, I recommend getting the phoenix paratrooper 4825 With Lithium Batteries. eMoto has a frame that beats Phantom X2 but it is a really bad euro ready motor.
 
Okay, now I'm pretty sure about getting the Phoenix Paratrooper! :D

I mean the whole point of getting an e-bike is the power, and there's a huge difference between 750W (Outlaw SS) and 1920W that I could get with Phoenix.

However, I'm very confused regarding what motor and battery to pick, they have so many options! I'm trying to decide between 36V x 40A (1440W) and 42V x 40A(1920W). First of all, do the Volts and Amps matter at all or should I just be looking at the Wattages? The higher wattage adds 4 pounds and $250, is it worth it?
 
going from 1440W to 1920W would be worth an extra $250, but what are the prices incl shipping compared to the HPC?

Depending on shipping... go with the 2000W HPC hT1 unless you have good fabrication skills to relocate the battery on the paratrooper to about where it is on the HPC.
 
Yep, seems like HPC HT1 is the way to go. With one of the options my max speed would be 40mph (vs 34 on the Phoenix), I'll have slightly more power, it will weight 5 pounds less and it's also got all the heavy stuff in the right location on the bike. Hopefully there's nothing better out there that I've not seen yet.!
 
I would go with the high torque versions TBH. There always is something better, you just gotta figure out where your really gonna end up riding it and search the internet real well. I wouldn't rule out getting a kit from em3ev.com and installing it on a second hand downhill bike. Those are the ideal frames for ebikes. cell man@em3ev makes a triangular pack with a frame bag.
 
@Chalega I've ridden many bikes electric and non-electric in Manhattan and I have tested most of the bike you are mentioning in your post being I am a dealer of Prodeco, Stromer and Easy Motion. I have compiled some brief notes below but feel free to let me know if I can elaborate on anything.

To clarify the comments about the law. The current fine for riding an electric bike in Manhattan is $1000.00 that being said the law that is associated with this fine is questionable. My feeling is the law is designed to be able to target reckless delivery men as they cause a lot of havic. I feel the numbered vests with the restaurant name is the first step in a reasonable control so they can start building some clear and reasonable regulations. I have yet to hear of a bike being confiscated and I have spoken to many city cops and I even have one as a customer that bought a eFlow.

Notes about the different bikes:

Outlaw SS - Powerful and fast bike but as others mentioned this is a downhill mountain bike and it's less than ideal for the city, the position of the forks make it difficult to maneuver in the the tight spaces commonly present in the city. It's also quite heavy with large tires so pedaling the bike without power is quite a task. As others mentioned too I feel it's less than desirable to have the battery mounted on the back as it impacts the balance of the bike. That being said if you are looking for an inexpensive bike relatively speaking (comparing to Easy Motion and Stromer) this could be a good option, but I feel you will be more satisfied with something else given your situation.

Stromer ST1 - Great bike, quality components, well balanced and nice smooth power. I lead with great bike as the Stromer retains the bike characteristics while adding power, there's very little resistance when pedaling without the motor and if handles quite nicely in city environments. It has nice wide tires with a street tread that perform well in the city while protecting you from potholes a little more than the Race would with the road bike tires.

Race - Great bike, quality components, as with the Stromer it is well balanced due to the frame integrated battery. I can generally get the bike up to 25-26mph with moderate pedaling in Pedal assist mode, Easy Motion also offers a throttle which could be important to you based on your earlier comments. That being said riding on the 700X25 tires could be a bit hazardous in the city depending on your riding style, I have a customer that bought one in Brooklyn and got some flats early on but after getting used to riding with high pressure on a low width tire hes been trouble free. If you do go this route you might want to consider a little bit of a beefier tire like a gatorskin, I run them on my track bike (that I ride on the road when I want some exercise) with thin tubes and have no issues and I'm pretty hard on it. You could also run a thornproof tube for extra security against flats, but it will add some weight.

Some other bikes to possibly take a look at - Easy Motion Jumper (Full suspension which is a blast on rough terrain in the city and has all of the other features of the Easy Motion including a 350 watt geared motor which is surprisingly powerful) and the Easy Motion Cross (kind of an in between comfort wise from the Race and the Stromer with tires a little wider than the Race and a front fork suspension)

I think it would make sense to try the bikes out as I think it will help you make an informed decision. I have most of the bikes in stock including the Outlaw SS, Stromer ST1 Platinum and Elite and a wide selection of the Easy Motion bikes along with the Currie and eFlow line. There might also be some retailers closer to you too, although I am just a short car or train ride away :)

I believe we may have spoken already on the phone but feel free to give me a call or email me if I can be of further assistance or if your interested in testing out some of the bikes.

-Chris Nolte
631-306-4542
chris@longislandelectricbikes.com

edit: I realize I may have been a little late to the party, but hopefully someone else can find this information useful. I had this saved in drafts and realized I never posted it.
 
You should seriously consider getting a Volton,NewVolton.png

Checkout this review: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53810

At around $2k you would be getting a great quality purpose built ebike and they are based in Chicago.
 
A year ago, I purchased a Volton 500 ebike and was disgusted by the lack of quality design, assembly and warranty so I returned it for a full refund. I liked the 48 volt 500 watt power and the LED for about $1800.00

Subsequently, I purchased a Stromer ST-1 earlier this year and I have been grateful ever since. WHY? I blew the motor by accident and Stromer stepped and replaced it at no cost under the warranty. One of most balanced, powerful, and consumer friendly ebikes on the planet despite me. I like to see Volton do that.

BMC will be around making Stromers long after Volton has meet it's death.
 
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