Panasonic 18650 vs ZIPPY Flightmax

[dyana_by]

I've got a Bafang 750w 48v 25A and now I need a battery pack.
I would like to build a DIY pack.

The options are:

1- Buy Panasonic 18650 2c to have 50.4 V and 20.4 Ah + BMS

or

2- Buy ZIPPY Flightmax 8000mAh 4S1P 30C to have 44.4v and 24Ah + Balance Charger

Wich is the best option?

Thx.
D.

 

[Allex]

I would buy panasonic. Better quality and no risk of fire/swallen cells.

 

[Wheazel]

I have a bike with 16ah 12s of the zippys and currently building a 18650 pack for my next project. Personally I felt the 18650 build was the next step with that nagging risk of the zippys failing. No mishaps so far but they are not balanced after a ride, never been. Some cell/cells in my pack performs slightly worse than the rest. I previously had a 10s10ah pack turnigy where one cell suddenly died for no appearent reason. Balancecharged every cycle.

Then there is the huge plus of energydensity with the 18650s. Drawback is a large pack is needed to keep the current for the single cell low.

 

[Hillhater]

Wich is the best option?

Thx.
D.

What is best for me , may not be best for you ( build skills, availability, budget, etc etc...


but if it is RC lipo , then I would choose Turnigy packs over the Zippy packs .

 

[dogman dan]

Best for what? Best price, easiest, safest?

If you will run a 25 amps controller with 2c cells, I recommend a minimum size of 15 ah. That's good for range too, since you will have a solid 25 miles and more if you ride slow.

But if you only need 5 ah worth of range, then 5 ah of RC lico like the zippies or turnigy will run a 25 amps controller with ease. And cost 10 ah less.

For sure, the Panasonic cells are made with better QC. Don't charge RC lico where you wouldn't build a fire.

 

[agniusm]

You will need at least 12-10 cells in P for them to last. That makes 140 cells. It will make you 29-35AH pack depending on Panasonic cell chosen and weigh 6.5-7kg.
People here done a lot of testing of cells and you'd be better with LG ICR18650D1 @ 3000mah. They'r a lot cheaper than Panasonics. I'd say around 3$ per cell. Get 154 cells for 11P14S pack.
Get BMS from Bestechpower with setting set for this cell at 4.35V HOC and you are good

 

[wineboyrider]

Go for the panasonic if with BMS if you don't want the hassle of learning about batteries and go for the zippy's if you want to learn.. Is the panasonic a cell man pack?
If so I hear they have a great reputation.

 

[trevc2]

I previously had a 10s10ah pack turnigy where one cell suddenly died for no appearent reason. Balancecharged every cycle.

Just had the same issue with Turnigy Nanotech packs running 24s. 2 cells suddenly died after only 14 cycles. Only ever balance charged, never over discharged etc. Dodgy RC lipo intended for toys, not vehicles.

You can be damn sure that my next pack will be something more serious than Chinese "hobby" lipo.

 

[dogman dan]

Pretty well known that you have to sort the duds out of any new RC "toy" battery pack. Once that is done, rid of the defect cells a pack can last two years for sure. More if loss of capacity doesn't bother your bike.

I got really lucky last batch, all 42 cells bought last spring were good, and going strong still now. 14 cells bought recently all good so far, about 8 cycles. Other purchases in the past were more like 10% defect cells.

Not sure what's easier, buying extra packs to replace duds, or trying to assemble a large pack of small cells. Different story if you can source cells strung in 10P bunches with tab welds.

Either route will involve some learning, and usually some learning the hard way.

 

[hydro-one]

I Have had a serious lipo fire with rc lipo and it not worth it , i am slowly getting rid of my pouch cells and switching to 18650, salvaged from power tool packs. some day i aspire to build my own pack with new cells. . . .

 

[trevc2]

I Have had a serious lipo fire with rc lipo and it not worth it , i am slowly getting rid of my pouch cells and switching to 18650, salvaged from power tool packs. some day i aspire to build my own pack with new cells. . . .

At least the lipo fires can keep you warm riding the wpg streets. 18650's won't usually offer such perks

 

[trevc2]

Pretty well known that you have to sort the duds out of any new RC "toy" battery pack. Once that is done, rid of the defect cells a pack can last two years for sure. More if loss of capacity doesn't bother your bike.

Definitely, but I think something's up with the quality of recent Nanotech's. It seems like people are seeing high rates of failed cells, etc. Having 50% packs end up useless isn't very good. I'm not really looking forward to tearing them apart to remove the defective cells, not my idea of fun. They're expensive enough that they should be a bit more reliable.

I just ordered 4 Zippy flightmax in the same capacities, so far they're looking healthier and the voltage sag is no worse than Nanos.

 

[dogman dan]

They do a really shitty job of finding the duds before they sell them. On a purchase years ago, the 4s packs came from a bad batch. I had 100% failure of the three 4s turnigy soft packs I bought at that time. Every one puffed by cycle 10. But 100% good on all others I have bought since. There seems to have been a bad batch of nano's lately. The current 4s turnigy 20c hardcases in the US warehouse seem good at the moment.

Sorting is not a one time thing either. You have to detect those dinged and or leaking cells before they flame off. It's part of why I harp so much about how you carry these little suckers. DON'T ding em.

So I had a few duds once, but I caused a hell of a lot more packs to go bad myself. No fires, but I have held a pack in my gloved hand that was melting the shrink off it after an oops discharge to 0v. That's the real fire hazard of Lico IMO. The shit you ended up doing by oops.

 

[wineboyrider]

If I had the money I'd go for the panasonic and just use lipo booster packs , but for right now it's lipo for me. I had a cell of 12s 8000 1 p suddenly too zero in the middle of a ride for no apparent reason and have since switched to turnigy 25 lipo and have had much better luck with cell quality.

 

[dyana_by]

Thank you!
Now I have a better idea. I'll buy Panasonic.

Have a nice day.
D.

 

[Allex]

Hey I really think that theese cells could be worth the look.
They are more compact compared to round cells and much easier to work with because of the threaded tabs.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56743

 

[trevc2]

Hey I really think that theese cells could be worth the look.
They are more compact compared to round cells and much easier to work with because of the threaded tabs.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56743

I didn't get the impression the initial poster was interested in lifepo4. Doesn't seem relevant here.

 

[Hillhater]

Hey I really think that theese cells could be worth the look.
They are more compact compared to round cells and much easier to work with because of the threaded tabs.

Thats true Allex, but their energy density is poor @ 107 Whrs/kg ,..compared to the good 18650 cells @ 220+ Whrs/kg.
and their Whrs/liter is only 222 compared to the 18650 @ 680 Whr/ltr.
so , for the same kWhr , you have a pack that is double the weight and much larger to carry.

 

[Allex]

trevc2: every info is good info, better have more choices than a few.
Hillhater: Aha, you see, maybe they are not so good after all

 

[trevc2]

trevc2: every info is good info, better have more choices than a few.
Hillhater: Aha, you see, maybe they are not so good after all

Yeah, true. I didn't mean to come across as a dick.

I just think most people here are over LifePo4 as a battery chemistry, it's far too bulky and heavy to be usable on an electric bike. I assumed the same for dyana_by because his two choices were already magnitudes better than anything LifePo could offer.

Cheers

 

[Mike A.]

Hey Guys,

I'm new around here and just starting on my first build. Was going to build an electric mtn board but decided to do a conversion on my bike. Just wanted to add that I've been into flying large r/c helis for several years. The Zippy and HobbyKing "NanoTech" packs are not considered to be reliable within the r/c hobby.

For cheaper packs the Turnigy brand are decent. I have a few pairs of 6s 3300mah that I run in series (12s) and they have about 200 cycles on them.

For a better quality pack that is available from a US Distributor check out the Glacier line of LIPO's from buddyrc.com They are made by Acepow, the company that makes GensAce lipos which are very reliable. I have some Gens Ace pairs that have close to 200 cycles on them. Helis are hard on batteries too, a pair of 6s 3300's last about 5min.