parallel lead LED indicator

rich43

10 W
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
68
Location
Leicester, England, UK
How can I wire my parallel lead like this?:
..........| ---------LED HERE------------
o--------|
.........| ---------LED HERE------------
o--------|
.........| ----------LED HERE-----------

I want one of the LED's to light up when one of my (upto 3) packs is plugged into it.
And how can I make the LED cope with 100v DC?
Excuse terrible ascii art.
 
I'm not quite sure exactly what you want to do, but assuming you simply want an LED to light when a pack is plugged into that particular plug, but not otherwise, there's a few ways to work it.

Right now I'm assuming that your packs are going to have only a main + and - connection coming from them to your bike. If they have balance leads, too, then there is a slightly different and better way, posted after the first one.

For one of the simplest methods, it's going to "waste" a little voltage coming from the battery pack, though. There are "better" ways to do it, but they get more complex. If there are balance leads it's almost identical, but doesn't waste the voltage or require high-current diodes.


For this one, you need the following parts, for each pack connection:

Diode capable of handling reverse voltage at least as high as the pack being plugged in, and capable of handling the full maximum peak current that you would ever draw thru that pack. If the current is low enough, you can use the 1N400x series. If current requirements are high enough, you may have to use heatsinked diodes. :(

Low-wattage resistor (1/4w should be fine, 1/2W or higher will work but will be larger), calculated to limit current thru the LED to below the maximum allowed by that LED. Usually 20mA or less, but it depends on the specific LED and what is required by it to emit the amount of light you want from it, without burning it out.

LED of whatever color and brightness you're after.

Interconnect wire, can be pretty thin (24g if you want really thin wires, would be fine--there's going to be very little current flowing here).


All of the connections are on the bike side of the battery harness, not on the batteries themselves.

Cathode of Diode gets spliced into the controller side of the main + wire of a pack's input plug, on the bike side (not on the battery). Anode goes to the pack side of that splice.

One end of the Resistor (either end, doesn't matter) gets connected to the anode of the diode, and the other end anode of the LED.

LED's anode gets connected to the resistor per above, and cathode goes to main - wire of the pack's input plug.

Thus, the diode blocks any thing coming back to the LED from any other packs that are plugged in, but when you plug a pack into that connection, it does provide power to the LED, which lights up.




Alternately, if you have balance plugs on the packs/bike, you can use MUCH smaller diodes--the 1n400x series definitely works. Everything else is wired the same, except for the cathode and anode of the diode. That then gets spliced in series of the *balance* plug on the bike side of things, cathode on the bike side, anode on the pack side, on it's lowest + cell wire, instead of the main power wire. That means there's no high current ever flowing thru it so it doesn't need a big diode. Just keep in mind that if you have anything that monitors the cell voltages thru those balance plugs instead of the main leads, it will read voltage wrong on that cell by the amount of drop across the diode. And you can't recharge thru that particular balance wire either, cuz the diode will block it--but normally you probably don't do that on the bike itself anyway.


Resistor stil goes to anode of the diode, and LED still goes to - wire of the pack (but it can go to the balance lead instead of the main lead.


This latter method is better than the former, but only works if you have access to an individual cell voltage, via balance leads/etc.


Slightly more complicatedly, you could use connectors for the packs that have extra pins that are only connected to voltage if the packs are plugged in, with the resistor and LED in series with those pins.
 
amberwolf said:
I'm not quite sure exactly what you want to do, but assuming you simply want an LED to light when a pack is plugged into that particular plug, but not otherwise, there's a few ways to work it.

Right now I'm assuming that your packs are going to have only a main + and - connection coming from them to your bike. If they have balance leads, too, then there is a slightly different and better way, posted after the first one.

For one of the simplest methods, it's going to "waste" a little voltage coming from the battery pack, though. There are "better" ways to do it, but they get more complex. If there are balance leads it's almost identical, but doesn't waste the voltage or require high-current diodes.


For this one, you need the following parts, for each pack connection:

Diode capable of handling reverse voltage at least as high as the pack being plugged in, and capable of handling the full maximum peak current that you would ever draw thru that pack. If the current is low enough, you can use the 1N400x series. If current requirements are high enough, you may have to use heatsinked diodes. :(

Low-wattage resistor (1/4w should be fine, 1/2W or higher will work but will be larger), calculated to limit current thru the LED to below the maximum allowed by that LED. Usually 20mA or less, but it depends on the specific LED and what is required by it to emit the amount of light you want from it, without burning it out.

LED of whatever color and brightness you're after.

Interconnect wire, can be pretty thin (24g if you want really thin wires, would be fine--there's going to be very little current flowing here).


All of the connections are on the bike side of the battery harness, not on the batteries themselves.

Cathode of Diode gets spliced into the controller side of the main + wire of a pack's input plug, on the bike side (not on the battery). Anode goes to the pack side of that splice.

One end of the Resistor (either end, doesn't matter) gets connected to the anode of the diode, and the other end anode of the LED.

LED's anode gets connected to the resistor per above, and cathode goes to main - wire of the pack's input plug.

Thus, the diode blocks any thing coming back to the LED from any other packs that are plugged in, but when you plug a pack into that connection, it does provide power to the LED, which lights up.




Alternately, if you have balance plugs on the packs/bike, you can use MUCH smaller diodes--the 1n400x series definitely works. Everything else is wired the same, except for the cathode and anode of the diode. That then gets spliced in series of the *balance* plug on the bike side of things, cathode on the bike side, anode on the pack side, on it's lowest + cell wire, instead of the main power wire. That means there's no high current ever flowing thru it so it doesn't need a big diode. Just keep in mind that if you have anything that monitors the cell voltages thru those balance plugs instead of the main leads, it will read voltage wrong on that cell by the amount of drop across the diode. And you can't recharge thru that particular balance wire either, cuz the diode will block it--but normally you probably don't do that on the bike itself anyway.


Resistor stil goes to anode of the diode, and LED still goes to - wire of the pack (but it can go to the balance lead instead of the main lead.


This latter method is better than the former, but only works if you have access to an individual cell voltage, via balance leads/etc.


Slightly more complicatedly, you could use connectors for the packs that have extra pins that are only connected to voltage if the packs are plugged in, with the resistor and LED in series with those pins.

Wow, what a awesome amount of information, that's epic :) Thank you so much!

That's exactly what I wanted, I think I will add a high amperage in-line diode. I have tons of voltage (24s, 100.8v off charger), so I don't think voltage drop is a problem for me. Since my parallel lead supports three sets of batteries, I think I will need like three diodes, one for each LED.

The reason I want this set up in first place is that I want to prevent the possibility of a loose connection. If that does happen, one of my packs wont get used which could damage my batteries due to more current being put through them.

If I used your balance plug suggestion, it would be a pita to wire up, as half my batteries are in the triangle and the other half are mounted on my seat post rack. My bike would start to look like ramen noodles.

A huge bonus that comes with this is that it provides some rudimentary short circuit protection, which will go in tandem with the 60a fuse's that I will be installing on each of the three sets of wires aswell.

My 72v ESC is rated for 45a, what would be the best diodes for me?
I think I pretty much understand how to wire up the LED's once I got the diodes installed :)
 
rich43 said:
That's exactly what I wanted, I think I will add a high amperage in-line diode. I have tons of voltage (24s, 100.8v off charger), so I don't think voltage drop is a problem for me. Since my parallel lead supports three sets of batteries, I think I will need like three diodes, one for each LED.
Yes. Remember that unless your parallel packs *are* full system voltage, you don't need a diode that will take your full system voltage, only the voltage that would be seen across the pack that is connected there. If your packs are each individually 100.8V, then you do need diodes that will take that voltage.

Since there are three packs, then each of the three diodes needs to be able to handle 1/3 of the maximum peak current the system could ever draw from the battery, and needs to be able to constantly dissipate the total power of 1/3 the system *constant* typical current, times the voltage drop across the diode at that current (probably less than a volt). You may have to use heatsinks on them; you might not have to. Depends on the diode and where you place them. Also remember that many high-current diodes have a case that is NOT electrically isolated, so you need to be sure they aren't touching anything else or each other, or you have pack voltage present there!

If I used your balance plug suggestion, it would be a pita to wire up, as half my batteries are in the triangle and the other half are mounted on my seat post rack. My bike would start to look like ramen noodles.
It's not really that much extra wiring--just one for power and one for ground, for a single cell (assuming the cell voltage is high enough to light the LED), or for the entire pack voltage if you prefer that. You don't need the whole set of balance wires running there. But it would add six wires total, a pair from wherever each pack is physically placed, to wherever you want the LEDs to be. However, even from the mains you still need a pair of wires from just before wherever the packs' main power connections are merged together to go to the controller, to wherever you want the LEDs to be, so unless those are very different places then there's probably not that much more wire involved. :)

A huge bonus that comes with this is that it provides some rudimentary short circuit protection, which will go in tandem with the 60a fuse's that I will be installing on each of the three sets of wires aswell.
That is true, since no power could ever flow backward into any pack. However, remember it also means you CANNOT use regen braking, nor can you charge the packs on the bike thru the bike's own controller wiring harness.


My 72v ESC is rated for 45a, what would be the best diodes for me?
It's not really what your ESC is rated for, it is what the actual peak current and sustained constnat current the system pulls that determines that. You'd have to check that with a multimeter or a wattmeter, while riding it the hardest it's going to be ridden, to find that out.


As a guess, let's assume that 60A is the max peak current it would pull from a dead stop at WOT. If so, that's a minimum of 20A per diode required. I'd always get something higher than required, for safety margin. Personally I like to have double the margins but that's not necessary, 10-20% is probably good enough. So something that can handle 22A-24A is probably good enough. Assuming 100.8V is the peak voltage of each of your 3 packs, then that's the voltage you need each diode to withstand in it's Reverse Voltage mode. If you somehow connect something backwards, it might need to handle twice that; I'm not sure ATM. (mind is a little fuzzy).

Assume 1V drop across the diode, at worst case 24A, then 24W is what each diode has to be able to dissipate for power (heat).


So I guess you would want to find diodes that could withstand 202V at 24A, at 24W of heat dissipation, to be sure they can handle the worst case you throw at them.

The best kind are the ones that bolt thru (panel mount) so you can easily secure them to the bike, either to individual isolated heatsinks if required, or just to a plastic or wooden or bakelite/etc mounting panel.

If you give those specs to the Mouser online sales support, they could point you to the right diodes that they stock easy enough. Digikey or others could also probably do it, but I have had best experience with Mouser's help.
 
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