Pedaling at high speed

[BalorNG]

I like to train with elite cyclists only me to lower watts with a motor. They are my friends and we have a lot of laughs talking about speed and power on the bike, training techniques etc. I am a bit of a curiosity to them because I am one of the few to 'cross over'. I have a very diverse background of cycling, swimming and racing motorcycles. I like it all and so enjoy crossing into other related genres. You may know that many elite amateur cyclists don't like ebikes. I love ebikes. The reason many feel this way is...they believe they are exceptional in the endeavor of cycling and proud of the work and discipline of their fitness and don't like the landscape changed with a motor. But, they are learning there are some that come from a cycling background who can really ride but just enjoy the motor to put out a few less watts like me although guys like me are a bit rare. Many that ride ebikes don't have much of a cycling background.

Well, I'm personally more of an ultra-cyclist (an obese aging ultracyclist, hmm) with penchant for the weird, so experimenting with different concepts is not an anathema (more exciting, really).

I still like cycling and I need all the workout I can manage, and electric motors are not very good very good compliment to *ultra* distances because weight of the batteries scales with distance, and you cannot just 'fill up' at a nearby gas station.

However, I find this an interesting challenge in itself - currently, moreso than actually riding, which is a shame, but not something I have control over...

 

[Bigwheel]

This is my fast eBike.



It is able to sustain a 30mph average on level ground and a big part of that is the Schlumpf High Speed drive that allows me to pedal at a decent cadence with power input at those speeds. My High Speed drive is a 2.25:1 with a 27t sprocket which gives it the equivalent of a 60t chainring or 160" gear with an 11t final cog. So actually pedaling remains effective up to about 35mph.

However I rarely do that type of riding as it burns up wh's and so I find keeping an average speed of around 25mph to be optimal. Quite frankly hanging on to a bicycle at speeds over that are much different than on a motorcycle, which I am very familiar with also, but I like the overall effect of speed and exercise I get with this bike.

Also I don't use any form of PAS and instead use the cruise control function of my CA3 to set the watt output level where I want and go up and down the gear range according to the terrain and desired cadence. I find that although I like torque sensing PAS on my eMTB for road use it feels too nebulous to me at the higher cadence I tend to use.

 

[eMark]

Appreciate the relevance of posts by ebuilder to the mindset of pure pedal power cyclists. Believe he is the first prolific ebike ES contributor that isn't more about power assisted "raw performance" (even if uphill resistance) ... long overdue on these ES forums.

Suppose at some point all pure cyclists (as they age with a few aches) will be ever so grateful for the assistance of mid-motor ebikes. Appreciate the insight of ebuilder's informative mid-drive pedal assisted posts and those of other seasoned cyclists posting at ES.

Stopped along the way to checkout an ebike shop (Trailhead Cycling) yesterday. A Bosch ebike with "350W" printed on the frame caught my eye. My first thought was "only 350W ?". Then after giving it more thought and now reading your post i better understand why a Bosch 350W mid-motor is sufficient for cyclists that thrive on a pedal power workout (with some assistance when needed)

It's now possible for seniors to be pedaling into their 90s ... with the help of at least 350 watts of assisted power (when needed) ... https://www.pedalingforparkinsons.org/ ... with only pedal resistance and no motor assistance.

 

[The Madmadscientist]

Its not easy pedaling into the wind you have to be narrow and wear plenty of lycra to stand a decent chance.

This reminds me of when I had a job where I had to ride my bike from the centerish of Oakland to the centerish of San Francisco with a short hop on the BART to get across the bay.
Big SF style hills it was a gnarly ride.
Oh, to be young again...

The fricken wind...was against me the whole of the SF leg...all up hill...
Then at night the wind directions would change and I'd have to fight another strong wind on the way home...I found this very aggravating....
Over seven years there were only a handful of times where there was at least no wind...
I used to pray having the wind at my back for once.

 

[The Madmadscientist]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I learned a lot about biomechanics.
I appreciate the time it took.

 

[E-HP]

Lets face it, to love cycling, you have to have a suffering streak.

That's what I think about runners, LOL. When my controller died a couple of weeks ago, I got on my full suspension bike and rode up the trail by my house, It was torture. The last little bit is 17% and I was in granny gear and zigzagging up huffing and puffing. I managed to get to the top and my face was numb due to lack of oxygen, just like the old days. Felt great, but showed how out of shape I've become.

Now I have a side goal of riding up Mt Tam, across the bay, by New Years. My wife and I would ride up the mountain twice a month, year round, when we were riding regularly, but it's been about 8 years since I rode up there. I can tell that it will be a challenge, given my current/poor fitness level, but looking forward to it, and the reward, flying back downhill.

 

[E-HP]

17% incline on a dually? I think I would have been spitting out body parts.

On day 2, I remembered I could lock out the suspension . That made a difference, but didn't make it easy.

My wife isn't able to ride anymore, so I'm going to try putting together an ebike for her so we can ride together again. I'm thinking a step through, but that makes mounting the battery more difficult, so I've been looking at the one thundercamel built for his wife; not step through, but the sloping top tube looks low enough for her.

 

[Ianhill]

The fitness part got me to get a decent hardtail mountian bike nice and light 1× drivetrain with a dropper post its like night and day to the bikes im used to managed to go 18miles before my butt crack give out.

Comforts a big part to me why i don't go for a hybrid style bike but weight is important to when peddling it uphill so a nice 27.5 tyre 2.8 wide gives plenty suspension in its own with a nice fork decent thick stanchions the front is nice and rigid and good for climbing and bit of off road jumping rutt to rutt, each to their own for their own goals but i fall back to that style of bike time and time again.

 

[E-HP]

Comforts a big part to me why i don't go for a hybrid style bike but weight is important to when peddling it uphill so a nice 27.5 tyre 2.8 wide gives plenty suspension in its own with a nice fork decent thick stanchions the front is nice and rigid and good for climbing and bit of off road jumping rutt to rutt, each to their own for their own goals but i fall back to that style of bike time and time again.

When I pulled my bike out from the junk it was sitting behind to pump up the tires, I realized why I will probably never convert it. It's old school, with linear pull brakes, but it's crazy light compared to my ebike. I could pick it up with one finger. Pretty much a sin to saddle that will a big battery and heavy motor. Of course, it also reminded me of how much money I put into that hobby. By contrast, my ebike has zero titanium part.

 

[nicobie]

Nice discussion on spinning. Years ago I kind of sponsored an attempt at breaking the 60mph challenge. It was the lighting 'bent team out of Lompoc CA. I was helping one of the riders and was around a lot of the training. You are way more advanced in this than we were. We had the important parts down pat but were totally lacking the finesse on the subject that you have. I'm also friends with Ove Anderson who competed in the Olympics for Denmark a long time ago. He is one of the most interesting men I have ever met. Almost nobody around here could keep up with him. At the time he was in his late 70's or early 80's.

 

[BalorNG]

Please know and I know you do, you can turn the weight gain around...just like the science of riding, the science of diet, intermittent fasting, more ketosis, less sugar, fewer carbs breaking down insulin resistance, you can melt that all away. A simple matter of training the body to consume its fat and not look to external sources.
I have turned many dials of my food intake including timing of eating and you can transform your body. An odd dynamic of intermittent fasting is after a while the body stops craving food. I can go a long time and have no interest in food. And of course there are those that take it to extreme and only eat one meal a day. A lot easier to ride fast with a light body. One advantage having a motor is you can ingest fewer carbs/sugar and still work out.
Good luck with your riding and thanks for your comments.

Well, the problem is mostly psychological in nature - shift in hunger/satiety homeostasis (I've always been more or less always hungry and, hence, chubby with exception when I got enough motivation to cycle 10+ thousand kilometers a year) and depressive symptoms I've also been struggling pretty much all my life with varying degrees of success, *however* currently I've added metformin in addition to more or less 'lowcarb' I've already been eating, and it seem to make things considerably easier, if not exactly "easy". There are also other very interesting meds that supress appetite effectively more or less safely both in the works and already available (unlike stimulants, they are also primarily 'anti-diabetic' in nature), but I would not be able to afford them in foreseeable future - because they do not actually 'fix' the problem, but like with diabetes, require lifelong treatment, and cost a fortune.

Problem of obesity epidemic is a weird one, there are multiple theories, none of them truly convincing, they fail to explain all the phenomena - but then there likely a convergence of multiple factors as well.
While I don't entirely agree with their conclusions, this collection of articles sums up current knowledge on 'obesity epidemic' and some possible causes:

http://achemicalhunger.com

I've read enough other scientific articles on that point, pretty much all of them state that 'more research is needed' and 'the problem is very complex', eh. Of course, 'less calories in than out' works 100%, but ensuring that when you buy your own food AND constantly hungry is like being a heroin junkie - while new doses being sold in every store, carefully packaged and arranged to attract maximum attention and maximise your cravings using neuromarketing techniques...
I'm actually leaning on easily available (and cheap) hyperpalatable foods that act as 'comfort food' and high levels of stress that create quite literal food addictions in a considerable number of cases, but it still does not explain everything - there indeed might be an effect of pollution, maybe affecting microbiome that is also mind-bogglingly complex subject.

 

[LewTwo]

I should really avoid threads about derailleur drives but ...

There is another alternative that I do not believe has been mentioned in this thread.
One could use a Sturmey-Archer three speed rear hub and 7 speed cassette for a total of 21 gears (and a single speed crank). Basically that is a standard rear derailleur setup using a 3 speed IGH hub that gives one 25% 'underdrive', 1:1 and 33% 'overdrive'.

Of course that would also mean having to use a mid drive but unless I am mistaken, with that frame a Bafang BBSXXX could be rotated and mounted entirely with in the confines of the frame. Might even look a bit more like a 'chopper'.


P.S.
While searching for information about SA hubs, I ran across a Bike-Biz news bulletin about SA shutting down ... unfortunately Bike-Biz does not include "year" in their dates. So I searched further ...

The company was founded in 1902 by Henry Sturmey and James Archer under the guidance of Frank Bowden, the primary owner of Raleigh. In 2000, the assets and trademarks of Sturmey-Archer were sold to Sun Race of Taiwan which was renamed Sun Race Sturmey-Archer Inc. and production moved to Taiwan.

 

[Chalo]

Data point: I just rode my latest e-bike to work today, and with 44/12 gearing on a 26" wheel, I had no difficulty at all pedaling along at 28 mph. The bike doesn't have nearly enough power to propel me that fast, so it was effective pedaling and not pantomime.

Make it 53/11 with a 28-29" wheel, and I could definitely turn cranks at bicycle-inappropriate speeds. So I doubt the bike of interest to the OP needs two stage gearing or huge chainrings.

 

[999zip999]

52-11t = 33mph.on 26in. Wheel.

 

[Chalo]

52-11t = 33mph.on 26in. Wheel.

That depends how fast you pedal, and how tall the tire.

 

[999zip999]

OK ok rpm (revolutions per minute)=ZIP
Or 52-11t =33mph. Or ZIP.
Till I hit the throttle and ghost peddle to 46mph.
Chalo !
Any more questions ?

 

[999zip999]

Disclaimer : I Zip must be honest I'm at 75% as my controller is set to 50amps and not 65amps or 999% as I never take it to 1,000% because of fear.
If 65amps how could go
So at the moment I'm 998ZIP 998. shameful.