Piaggio 50 scooter electric plug&play conversion

[pdisp]

Hi to all!

Today i introduce my project in this space.

I started to think about a complete plug&play conversion for mopeds when i started reading about many limitations and constraints for old motorbikes and in a special way for 2 stroke bikes.
I think that 2 stroke motorbikes and mopeds are such a big fun to drive and they are easy to buy and maintain, since they have a huge diffusion all over the world.

As you know, these two wheelers don't have a large life ahead, due to environment restrictions.
I think that, at least here in Italy, 2 strokes will be banned in a matter of years.
So i thought about this plug&play conversion for Piaggio mopeds that allows everyone to swap the electric engine in place of the original (or not ) 2 stroke engine.
No workaround, no mods, only plug the kit and ride electric!
I'm still in design phase and i'm working around the motor flange and the shaft that will connect the motor to the CVT transmission.

By now i've chosen the following parts as the centerpiece of this project:
-5 kw HPM5000B fan-cooled BLDC electric engine (OEM Piaggio engines' power is something north 2 kw)
-VEC300 motor controller
-Battery pack
-Wiring
-various ancillaries

Here some screenshots of the project:

I'm here to read about suggestions, criticisms, and hints.
Thanks for the time you'll dedicate in this thread, i'll be grateful.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Very interesting. I think you might be very successful with this.

 

[MorbidlyObeseKoala]

Looks really good. Is there a way to adjust the belt tension inside the case?

 

[BigBlock]

Ciao,

it looks very well designed. What CAD software do you use ?

I guess the target Moped would be the "Piaggio SI" or "Ciao" - If so they have very skynny frame thus you could straggle to find the room to hide the battery pack.

Is the motor 48V ? To reach 5Kw you will need more than 100A on a 13s pack

Hope to see more.

 

[jhoexp]

Hei there, fellow italian electric scooter lover! :wink:
Great to see some other italian guy working on electric conversions!
love the piaggio zip and the other scooters (let's educate these guys here to call them with their right name, it's our thing, not theirs ) but unfortunatly I don't think that keeping the whole transmission assembly makes much sense. Also, if there is something you don't want anymore, that is the variator, so....

I have tought about this for some time and eventually realized that maybe the old italian scooters (and the vespa too) are not a good starting point for a conversion. The ideal motor for them is for sure a hub drive, and that makes the whole trainsmission useless, but then if you want to remove it, you have to build a new swingarm.
Also, their main reason for existence is the large helmet holder under the saddle, and you will probalby and up using it for the battery, so they became even more useless...

And in the end, is not that cheap: just a decent motor and speed regulator will end up costing as a new basic NIU or an used Askoll.

I wanted to start from a scooter or convert my old Vespa, but considering the costs and the hassle (also I feared to be considered heretic :lol: ) decided to go for a full size dirt bike conversion.

Good luck anyway! Where are you located in Italy?

 

[pdisp]

Very interesting. I think you might be very successful with this.

Thank you for the appreciation!
I hope to post further updates here.

Looks really good. Is there a way to adjust the belt tension inside the case?

Thank you so much!
So, there is no way to adjust the belt tension in the case. Major adjustments in this transmission come from variator roller and springs and from clutch springs.

Ciao,

it looks very well designed. What CAD software do you use ?

I guess the target Moped would be the "Piaggio SI" or "Ciao" - If so they have very skynny frame thus you could straggle to find the room to hide the battery pack.

Is the motor 48V ? To reach 5Kw you will need more than 100A on a 13s pack

Hope to see more.

Ciao, thank you for your appreciation!
I use Autodesk Inventor 2021 as CAD software. In past months i used also Solid Edge and CATIA but this SW is the best compromise between performance and ease of use IMHO.
About the "moped" target i made a mistake. I always have the doubt that anyone outside of Italy could think about micromobility when I say scooter, so i use (wrongly to be fair) the "moped" term.
The original target is all the Piaggio scooters like ZIP, ZIP SP, NRG, NTT, Gilera Typhoon, etc.
So, the motor is 48v and about batteries I've seen something on the web but i didn't go further about this matter yet.
I'll have to do my calculation and see what the market offers

Hei there, fellow italian electric scooter lover! :wink:
Great to see some other italian guy working on electric conversions!
love the piaggio zip and the other scooters (let's educate these guys here to call them with their right name, it's our thing, not theirs ) but unfortunatly I don't think that keeping the whole transmission assembly makes much sense. Also, if there is something you don't want anymore, that is the variator, so....

I have tought about this for some time and eventually realized that maybe the old italian scooters (and the vespa too) are not a good starting point for a conversion. The ideal motor for them is for sure a hub drive, and that makes the whole trainsmission useless, but then if you want to remove it, you have to build a new swingarm.
Also, their main reason for existence is the large helmet holder under the saddle, and you will probalby and up using it for the battery, so they became even more useless...

And in the end, is not that cheap: just a decent motor and speed regulator will end up costing as a new basic NIU or an used Askoll.

I wanted to start from a scooter or convert my old Vespa, but considering the costs and the hassle (also I feared to be considered heretic :lol: ) decided to go for a full size dirt bike conversion.

Good luck anyway! Where are you located in Italy?

Hi there!
So glad to find an Italian electric scooter lover!
I always wanted to deal with electricity and scooters! I think that this will be the next step for the evolution of these amazing two-wheelers!
I think that a Piaggio ZIP or a Gilera Typhoon with electric power could be something very fun due to its tire-shredding acceleration and reactivity to throttle input.
Please keep in mind that, due to its plug&play nature this kit is no more than a replacement for the 2 stroke cylinder, even if there is the disadvantage of the friction due to the CVT transmission.
So, the hub motor is an amazing idea (look at the Piaggio One that uses this solution or the Thundervolt NK-E) but, as you said, this choice needs to be mated with a purposely built swingarm.
The only problem about this solution is the modification of the chassis due to have a twin shock system (i don't want to mention a pro-link rear shock solution) that doesn't cope with the plug&play nature of this project.
My aim is to have something relatively simple.
I mean, i buy all the parts, bolt them up, do a simple setup and the scooter is ready for amazing electric rides
So, about the room space under the saddle i know that this one would be lost, but i had a Yamaha BWS that had no room and it didn't have an electric motor, so it's fine
About costing, i know that a conversion like this one is very pricey, but this is only for the science :lol:
So, which dirt bike you moved on for your project? An electric dirt bike conversion is something amazing due to its instant torque.
Another dream that i have is the Beta ALP conversion or the HM Locusta electric conversion.
Riding silently through forest could be the ultimate fun IMHO.
Thank you for your wishes! I'm located in Bari at the moment, what about you?

 

[BigBlock]

Hei there, fellow italian electric scooter lover! :wink:

it looks we are at least three fellow here...

 

[pdisp]

NEW UPDATE:

So, first of all, sorry for my absence, but there was a lot of things to do besides this project.
Anyway i have something new for this thread
I modified at a certain point the engine mount due to the use of an elastic claw joint compliant with the torque and speed of the motor.
The mount is not so tiny anymore, but there is no more issue about mounting and dismounting the motor, because there's more room for hands and screwdrivers.
I made a trial using a Kiesler Racing frame purposely designed for Piaggio engines and the result is better than expected.
Next step is the shaft design.
I have a design in mind, now it needs to be optimized, using original bearing inner diameter as constraint.

That's it for now. Hope to come back with new updates

Enjoy the screenshots of the progress:

 

[ZeroEm]

That is a great design, wish you success.

Other CVT do not

So, there is no way to adjust the belt tension in the case

I can remember variable speed belts and it has always caught my attention.

The 1911 Zenith Gradua 6HP motorcycle used a pulley-based Gradua CVT