Does he sell from pingbattery.com, or is it just e-bay? And it seems they have a really low current rate, 20 amp continuous and 40 amp max. Would that power a x5305? If not, what sort of amp draw would I need for that? Does ping make batteries that would run well with this, or would I have to stick with the sla's I get with the bike?
Ping batteries
- Thread starter Sid
- Start date
...Ping seels from both ebay& Pingbattery.com.... ALWAYS buy direct better price ...no ebay commision dont know what your motor needs i run a bafang geared front with a Ping 36v 12a battery 2c continuous is normal for the duck tape batteries i.e 20ampbattery will run continuous at 40 spike to about 60amp.... caution... the real cheap ebay batteries will only run 1c...if your lucky
Russell
1 MW
Alex Lar said:
I agree the price looks compelling but I know of no one who has used these batteries. Do you have any data, tests or reports to confirm that they are any good?
-R
dnmun
1 PW
someone should buy the 48V20Ah pack from ecitypower for $514 and let us know.
they are built with prismatic cells, not the 18650's from the jimmywu shop.
i think they are worth a test, see how much shipping will be, assume $140 at least.
they are built with prismatic cells, not the 18650's from the jimmywu shop.
i think they are worth a test, see how much shipping will be, assume $140 at least.
dogman dan
1 PW
The price is good, for , er, a box with something in it. Maybe I just couldn't find the specs, but I think we do know a bit more about exactly what you get with ping. Chances are, they have a 20 amp continuous rating like a pingbattery of similar size, or a round cell pack of similar size, and most likely have a similar bms.
Alas, the pingbattery is not really the one I'd recomend for the big crystalyte motors. Something that can do about 40 amps continuous is more what would work best, so you are talking a123, headway, psi, or a really big pile of lower amp rate cells like pings. Ping does have a new version coming out, that may be up to the task, but at this point I have no information to make an opinon with.
I think two 15 ah 48v pings would do the trick, with diodes to protect the bms , connected paralell. Yeah, I know, for the owners of these motors, 48v is low voltage. Most of the hot rodders are building high voltage packs from tool batteries or headways. You might PM victoria about a headway 48v pack.
One way, but heavy, to boost the amps from a pingbattery would be to paralell it with a set of same voltage sla's. It would work till you got the money for a second ping or whatever vendor you bought lifepo4 from.
Alas, the pingbattery is not really the one I'd recomend for the big crystalyte motors. Something that can do about 40 amps continuous is more what would work best, so you are talking a123, headway, psi, or a really big pile of lower amp rate cells like pings. Ping does have a new version coming out, that may be up to the task, but at this point I have no information to make an opinon with.
I think two 15 ah 48v pings would do the trick, with diodes to protect the bms , connected paralell. Yeah, I know, for the owners of these motors, 48v is low voltage. Most of the hot rodders are building high voltage packs from tool batteries or headways. You might PM victoria about a headway 48v pack.
One way, but heavy, to boost the amps from a pingbattery would be to paralell it with a set of same voltage sla's. It would work till you got the money for a second ping or whatever vendor you bought lifepo4 from.
Well, the controller I'd be ordering is either a 36 volt 40 amp or 48 volt 40 amp.
The 20 AH batteries from ping say they support a max continuous discharge rate of 40 amps and max discharging current of 60 amps. Would it hurt the batteries to run them on a 40 amp controller? There's supposed to a BMS cut-off at 50 amps, so I don't think so.
And about being a hot-rodder, I'd be happy with a continuous 15-20 mph, but I want the acceleration that x5 offers, I don't trust the drivers around here, a lot of them are complete assholes because you're on a bike (shouting at me, throwing shit at me, swerving towards me). Then again these are also the ones driving the economy cars from 10 to 15 years ago that they might have paid $500 for which will leave them stranded one day. Aren't people lovely?
Edit: I just noticed the idea to parellel them. That simply adds the Ah and discharge rates, right? That'd actually be pretty feasable, but I'd just go straight for the Li-Ion. It's actually not that much more expensive to have electric rider just leave out the batteries and use that money to order them from ping.
The 20 AH batteries from ping say they support a max continuous discharge rate of 40 amps and max discharging current of 60 amps. Would it hurt the batteries to run them on a 40 amp controller? There's supposed to a BMS cut-off at 50 amps, so I don't think so.
And about being a hot-rodder, I'd be happy with a continuous 15-20 mph, but I want the acceleration that x5 offers, I don't trust the drivers around here, a lot of them are complete assholes because you're on a bike (shouting at me, throwing shit at me, swerving towards me). Then again these are also the ones driving the economy cars from 10 to 15 years ago that they might have paid $500 for which will leave them stranded one day. Aren't people lovely?
Edit: I just noticed the idea to parellel them. That simply adds the Ah and discharge rates, right? That'd actually be pretty feasable, but I'd just go straight for the Li-Ion. It's actually not that much more expensive to have electric rider just leave out the batteries and use that money to order them from ping.
Sid said:
Hey Sid. Sounds like you are getting an 5305 hub motor. If you haven't made the purchase yet, might think about going through ebikes.ca instead since they have a better controller for about the same amount of money as electricrider. I bought a 5303 from ebikes.ca. I got mine in the mail a few weeks ago. The controller from ebikes.ca is a 24 - 72v controller which means you can use any voltage from 24 - 72 whereas the controller that electricrider gives you is a fixed voltage so you have to use the voltage rating that is on it. Something to think about. Also, the ebikes.ca controller has a on/off switch whereaas I'm not sure that electcrider has that (they could have it, I'm not sure).
as far as battery for an X5.
You can either use one lithium polymer or two lifepo4. I was looking at the lithium polymers from itselectric.us yesterday. Those batteries would probably work on an x5 since polymers usually have a higher C rating. Might want to e-mail them first and ask, though. I'm still using lead acid batteries.
You can also buy a 36v NiCD or 36v Nimh and then get a 12v lead acid and it'll be able to handle the high current because the lead acid helps balance that out. At least that's what Dogman said.
The great thing about a controller that allows 24 - 72v is that if you decide you want a more stealthier bike and want to ride 24v or 36v with a small battery, you can do that without buying a new controller.
You can either use one lithium polymer or two lifepo4. I was looking at the lithium polymers from itselectric.us yesterday. Those batteries would probably work on an x5 since polymers usually have a higher C rating. Might want to e-mail them first and ask, though. I'm still using lead acid batteries.
You can also buy a 36v NiCD or 36v Nimh and then get a 12v lead acid and it'll be able to handle the high current because the lead acid helps balance that out. At least that's what Dogman said.
The great thing about a controller that allows 24 - 72v is that if you decide you want a more stealthier bike and want to ride 24v or 36v with a small battery, you can do that without buying a new controller.
StevenR
100 W
Methinks Alex Lar is from bmsbattery. I am interested in it though. It would need to be a true 2C battery to even merit consideration though.
I am a Ping fanboy too. I run a 48V20aH Ping on a 48V40A controller/5303 rig with a heavily soldered BMS shunt. It still cuts out once in a while on overcurrent but, by using the unjustly maligned Crystalyte cruise control, I can generally keep it on line. I get about 30 miles at a 30 MPH average speed.
I am a Ping fanboy too. I run a 48V20aH Ping on a 48V40A controller/5303 rig with a heavily soldered BMS shunt. It still cuts out once in a while on overcurrent but, by using the unjustly maligned Crystalyte cruise control, I can generally keep it on line. I get about 30 miles at a 30 MPH average speed.
dnmun
1 PW
morph, nobody ever goes back, after 48V there is 60, then 72V or 88V hot with lithium. this is where you pass from one voltage level of electronic parts to the next.
caps go 50V, 63V, 80V, 100V, 150V in steps, and the FETs are 75, 80, 100, 120V, etc.
so that is where you change the internal parts in the controller, and you have to add a resistor inline with the power resistor as you go up in voltage to prevent the voltage regulator from having too high input voltage, if you need to change the LVC, then you can find the input and add some resistance in parallel.
adding the large caps reduces the voltage spikes on the S/D busses from the flyback current of motor coils, and the input caps reduce the inductive spikes right across the FETs when the current is pulsing in the cables from the battery.
if you have 36V packs now, why not consider going series instead of parallel? but they should be the same width in Ah.
the controller should run cooler for the same power, and the top speed should increase significantly.
that's my logic for upgrading mine.
caps go 50V, 63V, 80V, 100V, 150V in steps, and the FETs are 75, 80, 100, 120V, etc.
so that is where you change the internal parts in the controller, and you have to add a resistor inline with the power resistor as you go up in voltage to prevent the voltage regulator from having too high input voltage, if you need to change the LVC, then you can find the input and add some resistance in parallel.
adding the large caps reduces the voltage spikes on the S/D busses from the flyback current of motor coils, and the input caps reduce the inductive spikes right across the FETs when the current is pulsing in the cables from the battery.
if you have 36V packs now, why not consider going series instead of parallel? but they should be the same width in Ah.
the controller should run cooler for the same power, and the top speed should increase significantly.
that's my logic for upgrading mine.
dogman dan
1 PW
A few people have reported running a big clyte motor on a 48v 20 ah battery. It remains to be seen, in a year or so, if the battery can stand it or not. It has to shorten cycle life compared to a lower amp motor, but by how much? We don't know yet. That is why I get conservative giving advice. Also I have no personal experience with high amp motors, so really, I don't know jack. I belive that some of the folks using a pingbattery on a big clyte motor are using the 20 amp controller to keep the battery discharge rate lower.
I think most people with 5300 series motors and 40 amp controllers report cruisng amp rates in the 25-35 amp range. So if the pingbattery is good for 2c, as ping says, it should be able to take it. A bigger spike could trip the 60 amp bms limit, like an uphill start, so some will put solder on the bms to raise that a few amps. It's still an experiment in progress, but if you don't mind an $800 experiment.... It would be a drag though, to be counting on that acceleration only to have the bms cut out with a truck about to squash you.
Bottom line though, big fast motors need big expensive batteries, or really short ride distance and little high discharge rate batteries.
I think most people with 5300 series motors and 40 amp controllers report cruisng amp rates in the 25-35 amp range. So if the pingbattery is good for 2c, as ping says, it should be able to take it. A bigger spike could trip the 60 amp bms limit, like an uphill start, so some will put solder on the bms to raise that a few amps. It's still an experiment in progress, but if you don't mind an $800 experiment.... It would be a drag though, to be counting on that acceleration only to have the bms cut out with a truck about to squash you.
Bottom line though, big fast motors need big expensive batteries, or really short ride distance and little high discharge rate batteries.
Russell
1 MW
dnmun said:
I inquired about a 36V/10Ah LiFePO4 battery from bmsbattery a month ago and was quoted $49 for shipping. I didn't pull the trigger since I knew nothing about the cells used or the performance of the battery. I did buy a LiPo charger from ecitypower, which is their sister site, for my Bosch Fatpacks. Ecitypower also did a trial sale of their batteries on eBay, where I got the charger, but no one bid on them. If I remember correctly the shipping for the 48V battery, I forget what capacity, was $99.
-R
dnmun
1 PW
i think those cells may be ok, they appeared to have 3 grades, 1C, 2C, and 3C. so i assume that big pack was a 1C for the money. at 99 shipping it was a better deal in my opinion than the ping. because they have the prismatic cell. kinda gaurantees 2,000 cycles.
can you tell me why they did not sell any batteries on ebay? did they have too high a price to open? that would be neat to snipe. imagine $200 for a big pack.
can you tell me why they did not sell any batteries on ebay? did they have too high a price to open? that would be neat to snipe. imagine $200 for a big pack.
Russell
1 MW
dnmun said:
The prices were good but they were listed in the automotive section and the auction ended late in the evening, our time. They are making progress on their websites but the bmsbattery site still lists shipping as $5 so you can’t really buy without writing them for a quote.
My charger from ecitypower came with a EURO power plug too so it seems they are real noobs when it comes to marketing their stuff. Their communication was good, far more than you'd expect for a $24 (delivered) sale, and the contact person, Jack Xie, seemed eager to please. I told him to leave the output ends bare, which he did, but it never occurred to me to tell him I wanted a 120V US AC plug on it
Not a biggie though and it works fine so far after two charges. -R
dogman said:A bigger spike could trip the 60 amp bms limit, like an uphill start, so some will put solder on the bms to raise that a few amps. It's still an experiment in progress, but if you don't mind an $800 experiment.... It would be a drag though, to be counting on that acceleration only to have the bms cut out with a truck about to squash you.
Wouldn't he be safe from this happening by using a 40A controller? From what I understand that means the battery current will not exceed 40A.
To make things clear, I haven't bought a thing. Depending on what I go with, I'm one to two paychecks (around a month) from getting everything ordered.
I'd like to not pay for SLA batteries if I'm just gonna go straight to Li-Ion as soon as I get the cash, and if it comes to it I can wait a while. I've heard good things about ping batteries, so that's what I've been researching. And like The Stig said, doesn't the 40 amp controller keep it below 60 amps? If not, what if I got the 35 amp controller from ebikes.ca, would that work?
I'd like to not pay for SLA batteries if I'm just gonna go straight to Li-Ion as soon as I get the cash, and if it comes to it I can wait a while. I've heard good things about ping batteries, so that's what I've been researching. And like The Stig said, doesn't the 40 amp controller keep it below 60 amps? If not, what if I got the 35 amp controller from ebikes.ca, would that work?
dogman dan
1 PW
As I understand it, a 40 amp controller would limit amps to 40 continuous, but a higher spike can occur at starts, or if you stall the motor. This spike only lasts a second or even less, but it is long enough for the bms to trip. The trouble with the shunt mod to fix this, in my opinion, is that then you get higher continuous drain possible through the bms wich can allow battery damage. With a cycleanalyst you could monitor the actual amp draw in different condtitions and modify your riding style to help the amps stay low as possible and still get the job done.
The decision has to be made based on your individual needs. My needs are more like, long range, long cycle life, moderate speed, spend as little as possible.
Your needs may be more like, more speed, more fun, don't waste money but spend it to have fun, shorter cycle life and shorter range are worth it. That's the two extremes on the end, and you may be in the middle. I'm broke now from it, but my fun budget used to be huge, for a hot air balloon. But my budget today, for just getting my tukus to work is tiny.
A 48v20 ah ping will run a 530x motor, but for how long is yet to be determined. I'm just coming up on the 3000 mile mark on my ping in a few more weeks so I still have at least 2 more years to go to see if mine goes 1000 cycles. A lower depth of discharge will help if you do go for it. High rate and deep discharge is bound to affect cycle life no matter what you get.
The decision has to be made based on your individual needs. My needs are more like, long range, long cycle life, moderate speed, spend as little as possible.
Your needs may be more like, more speed, more fun, don't waste money but spend it to have fun, shorter cycle life and shorter range are worth it. That's the two extremes on the end, and you may be in the middle. I'm broke now from it, but my fun budget used to be huge, for a hot air balloon. But my budget today, for just getting my tukus to work is tiny.
A 48v20 ah ping will run a 530x motor, but for how long is yet to be determined. I'm just coming up on the 3000 mile mark on my ping in a few more weeks so I still have at least 2 more years to go to see if mine goes 1000 cycles. A lower depth of discharge will help if you do go for it. High rate and deep discharge is bound to affect cycle life no matter what you get.
Sid, I'm partial to Dogman's advice. Get a 36v 18ah NICD battery and then add a 12v12ah lead acid for a 48v configuration. The NICD can handle the x5 and the lead acid in combination gives you a really high amp limit and it won't ever cut out on you. Also, the 36v NICD will probably be about 15lbs and then the lead acid about 9lbs so total about 24lbs which isn't too bad when you are running an x5 motor.
dogman dan
1 PW
On another thread I did talk some about boost packs, but that kind of series connecting needs to be done with care and knowledge of what you are doing and what will happen to each battery. I think morph may be talkin about another thread about paralell connections of different chemistries. On that thread, I reported that a 24v lead acid pack and a 24v nicad pack worked together well in a paralell connection, creating a lower c rate on both types of battery.
36v 16 ah nicad weighs 26.4 pounds. better than lead, but not as good as lifepo4 where 20 ah 36v weighs 15 pounds. Nicad is still a good compromise bettween the weight of sla's and the cost of lifepo4. A healthy size pack like a 36v 16 ah is still tolerable to carry, and a bit cheaper than lifepo4 that handles 5c. I'm not so thrilled with nimh, since cost and performance are similar to lifepo4, but nimh is still pretty heavy.
36v 16 ah nicad weighs 26.4 pounds. better than lead, but not as good as lifepo4 where 20 ah 36v weighs 15 pounds. Nicad is still a good compromise bettween the weight of sla's and the cost of lifepo4. A healthy size pack like a 36v 16 ah is still tolerable to carry, and a bit cheaper than lifepo4 that handles 5c. I'm not so thrilled with nimh, since cost and performance are similar to lifepo4, but nimh is still pretty heavy.
dnmun
1 PW
it would be much better to run them in series though, to get more speed. if you run them in parallel, the voltage sag from the SLA will suck some of the current out of the nicad which doesn't have as much sag, which is why people add the schottke diodes to prevent current from flowing into a battery in parallel with another.
dogman dan
1 PW
Yes, that is very true, I skipped the diodes , and used that configuration for only a short while, till the tax refund hit and I could buy a second nicad. The EV global is now using all nicads. It seemed to work good, but there may have been some extra strain on one or the other set of cells from the balancing you describe. Long ride or short, they did stay balanced, but I don't know if and big rushes of current were ever created. For long term use, get the diodes.
Would this charger work with my 48V v2 ping batt?
http://www.all-battery.com/TenergyBatteryCharger01311.aspx
http://www.all-battery.com/TenergyBatteryCharger01311.aspx
dogman dan
1 PW
yes and no. For the bms to do the balancing you need more voltage. Most 48v packs sold have 16 cells. But it would charge the pack to 58v for sure. I think a cheap ebay 48v sla charger would be just about the same. Most of the duct tape sellers, and retailers that sell kits with 48v lifepo4 can also supply a charger with voltage to match your bms. If you are nice to your battery, you should need little balancing. Packs with a defective or just poorly matched cells may need it every charge.
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