Ping V3 Reports

Just did two 10aH runs with the BMS bypassed. Charged for three hours after the first one. All the LED's lit and the current, read by a wattsup in the charge leads, dropped just like normal to 20mA. I didn't read the cell voltages (I was away from home and didn't want to burn anything up on the road), but, again, all the LED's lit. This charge also looks normal. I had the BMS completely disconnected ont the first run but couldn't get the sense leads disconnected so I left them. All seems well, other than no BMS output. I won't run it under 50% DOD (10aH) until this is resolved though. I will try to get two new BMS's from Ping - one to run and one for a backup. Perhaps one v2.5 (or whatever this is) and an old style one, if he has one that will take 60A. Damn. Running unprotected again. Hopefully I am in a safer operating range and this doesn't go on too long. With luck, the evcomponents 10aH Headway will be here soon to take up the slack and give me a back-up battery...
 
Oh yeah, back to the temperature discussion. I have two thermometers on the charge MOSFET. It seems to be running about 135F charging at 4.95A, 275 watts. One reads 135F and the other is right around 130F. I would have put the thermometer on it on discharge but it isn't connected right now...
 
I checked cell voltages. Minimum is 3.745, maximum is 3.806. The low ones seem to be creeping up. All the LED's are lit. Looks good to me...
 
StevenR said:
Just did two 10aH runs with the BMS bypassed. Charged for three hours after the first one. All the LED's lit and the current, read by a wattsup in the charge leads, dropped just like normal to 20mA. I didn't read the cell voltages (I was away from home and didn't want to burn anything up on the road), but, again, all the LED's lit. This charge also looks normal. I had the BMS completely disconnected ont the first run but couldn't get the sense leads disconnected so I left them. All seems well, other than no BMS output. I won't run it under 50% DOD (10aH) until this is resolved though. I will try to get two new BMS's from Ping - one to run and one for a backup. Perhaps one v2.5 (or whatever this is) and an old style one, if he has one that will take 60A. Damn. Running unprotected again. Hopefully I am in a safer operating range and this doesn't go on too long. With luck, the evcomponents 10aH Headway will be here soon to take up the slack and give me a back-up battery...
Click to expand...

what monster and i were trying to say is that it won't make any difference if you get a new BMS, whether the new one or the old one, if you have a sense wire disconnected.

there is no reason to run the battery with the BMS bypassed if you can isolate which sense wire is disconnected and repair it. you will have to do that in any case.

i can mail you an identical BMS to test with if you have continuity on all the sense wires.

ping will make the same observation as monster and i have, plus he doesn't like to release the v2.5 signalab BMS without a battery sold with it. i was only able to get one because he knew i was buying it to analyze. he could charge $100-$120 for both new ones with shipping. he doesn't give them away. the new ones are not cheap.

my current first pack build is using the headway cells and a ping 36V v2.5 signalab BMS.
 
what monster and i were trying to say is that it won't make any difference if you get a new BMS, whether the new one or the old one, if you have a sense wire disconnected.
Click to expand...

This does not appear to be the case. I measure all the correct cell voltages at the plug. The insulation melted on the wires but nothing shorted or opened. The board appears to charge and balance properly. I am seeing +/-0.02V about two hours after the LED's come on - and they are all getting closer as it sits.

I was trying to avoid shorting the wires and was measuring at the legs of the device at the end of the chain of resistors and may have shorted it there or something. I was messing with it but I would have thought I would have screwed up the charging side instead of the output. The input from this group seems to indicate I shouldn't have hurt anything if the sense wires are OK, which they appear to be. I have an email into Ping to get a couple new BMS boards.

If I keep the cells balanced, I think I should be OK for a week or two (150-300 miles 15-20 cycles 50%DOD). I toasted my Ping v2 but that was never balancing properly and running at 1.5x rated capacity. I am on top of the balancing now and this unit is running at .75x capacity.
 
The new BMS boards arrived. One may also be skunky but the other one works great. The sense wires were all OK and it was the BMS. I haven't had a chance to look at the one that seemed odd. It charged once and the output worked but it seemed to quit charging. It may have been a charger issue - the 5A charger that rode my seatpost seems to have quit just as the aluminum case unit arrived with the BMS boards. It may have been going when the BMS quit charging. I also build up some of the solder blobs and may have cooked or shorted something.

The new BMS does not seem to get hot at all when charging. The old one got so hot you could not hold your hand on the FET's. This one seems to be just above room temperature. Neither one gets more than warm at 35A continuous output...
 
I have about 100 cycles and 1500 miles on the v3 and it seemsjust broken in. I had some BMS issues initially that may have been due to shorting the sense pins at the connector but I got a new BMS at about 100 miles and it has run great since. All cells balance such that the maximum and minimum voltages are within 0.05V. I have only run it out to 20aH twice but it gets there. I have not hit a cell LVC or a high current trip with a 48V35A controller on a 5303. I also ran it with a Methods Monster 18FET controller with default programming. There seems to be a 60A limit programmed as default but it never tripped on high current there either. I will be flashing that controller and soldering the shunts on the 35A controller so we will see what it will do - perhaps. I am not sure I need more than 60A continuous...
 
For the damaged BMS(es), would you consider selling them cheaply? I'm looking for some I can repair and/or modify to use with some Li-ion packs, but have about zero budget for it. Damaged ones are about all I can afford (if that!). :)

I know I'd have to modify them for a different LVC/HVC, if that's even possible. (Still reading various BMS threads and looking around the web for this kind of info on various BMS versions).

See this thread, and reply there if you like:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13892&start=0
 
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the spare BMS boards. I like the sound of the word "spares" so I think I will keep the funky 60A v3's but I have a 40A v2 that I might part with. It has all kinds of scars and burn marks but I think it works so I'll have to think about it. I would like to get some time to rework the v3's before I decide.

The v3 is at about 2000 miles and probably 200+ cycles. I think my previous cycle estimates are way low because they are what the CA says and I always forget to reset and I often charge to less than full capacity several times during a ride - it depends what you call a cycle. It has been on charge or discharging continuously for the last three months with only a couple of exceptions. All cell voltages match +/- 0.03V. I just ran 1110Wh - 20aH+ - over 28 miles at 40Wh-mile. I have paralleled multiple chargers and charged at 7.5A+ without the BMS even getting warm.

I may start getting less miles now that the winter has almost begin - it was off charge and UNRIDDEN for the entire Thanksgiving weekend (four DAYS!). I do have a set of Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro's with 361 aluminum sheathed tungsten carbide spikes per tire though...
 
Actually that is totally on topic, IMHO. It tasks me to get it out of the bag and get some more accurate sizes and weights with some good pictures. I will give my best quick estimates here and come back with more.

It's in a Topeak rack bag and is a bit hard to measure but it seems about the same size as the 2.0 - 250x300x250mm (10x6x5") roughly. I seems a bit smaller than the 2.0 but that may be the shrinkwrap instead of tape.
 
I brainfarted on the measurements - the inches are about right but 250x150x125mm would be more like it. I get, out of the bag and being careful, 10x6.5x4.75 inches.View attachment 100_3352_v3.JPG
Headway 48V10aH, Pingv3, One half of a Pingv2.
 
The scale I have in the appropriate range only weights to the nearest half pound but I get 21 pounds for the Pingv3 if I just put it on the scale or if I pick it up and weigh myself with and without it. I get 14 pounds for a 48V10aH Headway on the scale alone, 13.5 pounds me with and without it, for comparison. It is repeatable in all cases.

And it REALLY puts out 20aH - 1100wh without LVC running 1750 watts. The Headway appears to go flat at about 9.5aH - the Pingv3 has 20% larger ampere hours.
 
Those measurements are battery only. You need to allow a little for the BMS...
 
what happened to the high discharge V3 packs? there are none on pings website.
 
I wondered the same thing! Though there was an earlier post where it was said "just email him, he seems happy to sell them." or very similar meaning at least.

But this thread seems to have died.... anyone out there with a Ping V3 pack with appropriate knowledge?

ATB :mrgreen:

BC
 
Hi guys, I bought a V3 pack almost a year ago, but I haven't used it enough to give a good review. I just emailed Ping and he sent me prices for the size V3 pack I wanted.
Here's one of the emails I received back in 4/09
Hi Dave,

Yes, we have V3 packs available now and maximum continuous discharge rate is 3C.

Unit price of V3 24v10ah pack is 262usd + 50usd shipping fee. Shipping fee of 2 packs is 85usd.

Lead time of two V3 packs is about 7 working days, a little shorter than V2.5, 10 working days. Both should be shorter usually, but recently we received so many orders.

I'm glad to know you're satisfied with our products. BTW, the V2.5 and V3.0 are packed with big shrink wrap tubes, not duct tape.

Any other questions, please feel free to contact me.

Best regards,

Ping
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