heliolatrix
10 W
yes, and I should have also waited for this other thread to take off. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=58965
Powered velomobile
- Thread starter heliolatrix
- Start date
I have a 24v 3500 rpm brushed motor and controller rated at 600w taken from one of these,
http://www.scootamart.com/images/products/large/deluxe-mobility-scooter.jpg
you could cut which ever end off that you didn't want to make it fit between pedal cranks, it may look too long, but there is 6" between the cranks on my std Boardman pedal bike. With an extended BB like the cyclone kit uses one of these would do the job.
http://www.scootamart.com/images/products/large/deluxe-mobility-scooter.jpg
you could cut which ever end off that you didn't want to make it fit between pedal cranks, it may look too long, but there is 6" between the cranks on my std Boardman pedal bike. With an extended BB like the cyclone kit uses one of these would do the job.
This motor probably wouldn't burn out if stressed to only 1 HP and you could probably get a real 1 HP at a crawl without it overheating. Good luck programming a Sevcon controller, however.
Subject: Sevcon Gen4 + Heinzmann PMS120 motor
Subject: Sevcon Gen4 + Heinzmann PMS120 motor
IdleMind
100 W
Two other things to consider. If you use a belt to the rear wheel you could mount the motor on a rack over the rear wheel then the motor length would not be a concern. Also you could use a 26 inch rim as your pulley, glue it to your primary rim then add small screws or rivits, its easier to get centered than attaching a smaller rim to the spokes.
heliolatrix
10 W
Unfortunately I do not know much about motors.
Does anyone know if there are any E-teck type motors still made? looks like they are all way too powerful...
what is the name of a good place to look for motor? NOT google.
Does anyone know if there are any E-teck type motors still made? looks like they are all way too powerful...
what is the name of a good place to look for motor? NOT google.
For high torque at low speeds you'll need a motor and controller that can allow high amps at low speed. If you get a programmable controller you can limit the power to legal levels.heliolatrix said:
If your advisor is worried about burning up for your intended use, you might need something like this to get a continuous true 1 HP at slow speeds:
http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/pk-m909-axe4834.htm
heliolatrix
10 W
so , this kit has a controller in it.
heliolatrix
10 W
Is there a way to rewire a hub motor so there is more toque?
May be use thinker wires?? with a new thicker axle?
I saw this video and do not think it could be done on hub motor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9CLtlkl6fM
My desire is to be able to drive about 400 lbs up a 9 percent grade, at less than 20 mph. And not use gears, cogs or pulleys.
I am not looking for speed just more torque.
May be use thinker wires?? with a new thicker axle?
I saw this video and do not think it could be done on hub motor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9CLtlkl6fM
My desire is to be able to drive about 400 lbs up a 9 percent grade, at less than 20 mph. And not use gears, cogs or pulleys.
I am not looking for speed just more torque.
cal3thousand
10 MW
heliolatrix said:
You can rewind a hub motor such that it will spin more slowly and thus be closer to its unloaded speed when loaded vs a faster winding. That will create less heat and keep your motor in a more efficient zone.
What motor are you looking at?
heliolatrix
10 W
no motor chosen yet.... I got he idea from the video that just adding more coils will make it slower and give it more torque, correct?
teslanv
1 MW
you would just want to find a slow wind or "torque" version of the motor size you prefer.
Dogman is the expert and biggest fan of these high-torque hubs.
Dogman is the expert and biggest fan of these high-torque hubs.
cal3thousand
10 MW
heliolatrix said:
Old crystalyte's can handle some serious power and the super slow wound motor already make a ton of torque. Using your parameters with the ebike simulator,
A x5305 will get you up that hill at 15mph on 66V, but will overheat after 6.7 minutes of that duty. So, if it's not a huge hill, it's definitely doable, no need for rewinding. If you want one, I have a used one for $150. PM me
heliolatrix
10 W
How would I keep it form over heating? I do not want to take a chance of burning out an expensive motor or controller.
cal3thousand
10 MW
heliolatrix said:
Get a cycle analyst V3 and install a temp sensor on your motor. The CA V3 can accept input from a temperature sensor (10k thermistor; beta ~ 3900) and then scale back your throttle power based on temperature.
Others, just do it manually. You know based on the simulator, about how much your motor can withstand. Don't exceed those estimates and you should be good.
How long of a 9% grade are you planning to tackle?
parabellum
1 MW
Do not look videos on you tube, this guy definitively does not know what he is doing. I have not analyzed his efforts, but I believe he will kill commutator or brushes right away, they see 0V in every switch unlike original winding just 1 coil V difference per switch. So, this guy assumed well at end, they where smarter people designing this motor. Conclusion, just stick to original design and you did well starting tread at this forum. Chromotor is quite torquy with right controller, wide and big D stator = torque.heliolatrix said:
bowlofsalad
100 kW
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/motors.html There is a chart just a bit down this page that shows some range is wattage capacity. There is something to say about the weight of the motor. It's probably a good rule of thumb to say that a very high output motor is going to weigh more. I know this isn't necessarily making a hub motor stronger, but it might yield some knowledge on starting off with a stronger (strong enough) hub.
However, beyond the weight concept, there are things you can do. The first is drilling holes in the side of the hub to allow for excellent air flow. Pair the drilled holes with some sort of spray that protects from corrosion and such. The increased airflow will radically improve thermal performance, allowing you to use much more power without overheating the motor nearly as easily or quickly.
The other option relates to putting oil (Many recommend automatic transmission fluid) into the hub and sealing it up well while having some sort of very tiny vent hole for pressure differences. The oil acts as a thermal medium and turns the casing of the hub into a heatsink.
Both ideas have pros and cons. As far as I know, a geared hub motor can only use the oil route, a direct drive hub can use either.
However, beyond the weight concept, there are things you can do. The first is drilling holes in the side of the hub to allow for excellent air flow. Pair the drilled holes with some sort of spray that protects from corrosion and such. The increased airflow will radically improve thermal performance, allowing you to use much more power without overheating the motor nearly as easily or quickly.
The other option relates to putting oil (Many recommend automatic transmission fluid) into the hub and sealing it up well while having some sort of very tiny vent hole for pressure differences. The oil acts as a thermal medium and turns the casing of the hub into a heatsink.
Both ideas have pros and cons. As far as I know, a geared hub motor can only use the oil route, a direct drive hub can use either.
heliolatrix
10 W
Is there a book on how to build a high torque hub motor. I want to build something that could be used on a slow speed motorcycle. Yet I do not need the speed.
I want to use wires thick enough to climb hills with 400 lbs or more at no more than 20 mph (12 volt at high amperage). I need to carry children and cargo up steep hills.
Eventually I want to build a heavy duty tricycle that will replace a car. We do not like cars, and gears use up too much power.
I want to use wires thick enough to climb hills with 400 lbs or more at no more than 20 mph (12 volt at high amperage). I need to carry children and cargo up steep hills.
Eventually I want to build a heavy duty tricycle that will replace a car. We do not like cars, and gears use up too much power.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
There is no "How to" or "Designing High torque hubmotors for dummies" books out there exactly, but plenty of material on building and designing motors, along with all the related physics you'll need to understand. What you'll need to know will fill more than a single book. Designing electric motors isn't rocket science, rocket science is probably easier.
But if your main goal is climbing hills with torque, a hub motor isn't the way to go. While a single stage chain drive loses around 5-10%, a hub drive not operating near it's peak RPM is losing far more power than a properly geared motor would be.
But if your main goal is climbing hills with torque, a hub motor isn't the way to go. While a single stage chain drive loses around 5-10%, a hub drive not operating near it's peak RPM is losing far more power than a properly geared motor would be.
Matt Gruber
1 MW
so is the trick,
adding a boost battery when climbing a hill, to keep the speed up? then the hub motor remains efficient, right?
adding a boost battery when climbing a hill, to keep the speed up? then the hub motor remains efficient, right?
lbz5mc12
10 kW
You could always just use 2 low speed hub kits on your bike. Front and rear. Have 2 separate throttles that way you can use either or, or both at the same time. I use 2 kits on my bike and I alone weigh about 305 lbs. My motors get me uphill at about 20 mph or more depending on the grade.
Kingfish
100 MW
I have two 9C 2806 hubs mounted front and rear and it is plenty fast (> 40 mph top speed, cruise ~30 mph) + it climbs hills with ease. Probably a lot cheaper to set up over building a new single torquey motor from scratch.lbz5mc12 said:
Maybe we should restate the goal:
Is it that you want motorcycle-carrying capacity, just at (relatively) slow speed?
If that is the case, on my road trip to California I had my 2WD configured to pull a trailer, and the total weight with driver was about 400 to 450 lbs.
You will need a strong bike frame :wink:
My ½W, KF
heliolatrix
10 W
Kingfish said:
Yes I just need slow speed capacity. Two wheel drive seems like a good Idea. And not build a hub motor. But how does that compare to just using a properly geared down motor?
And what do they do for solar powered cars? Just drive at the maximum speed possible?
Well it is finally becoming clear to me what to do.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Most of the solar racers are running a CSIRO hub motor, but they are cruising for long periods at near peak efficiency speed, not grunting up hills in the motor's low efficient but peak torque range.
dogman dan
1 PW
it's complicated, and not easy to explain, I sure as hell don't understand it really, and never will.
But I do know, that if you plan to ride slow, the slower winding version of the hubmotor is what you want.
I do know, any winding will climb better in a smaller wheel size.
So the starting point will be finding the slow motors, in a 20 inch rim. If it's a big motor, you can heave power at it with both hands. If it's more bike size, then two motors will carry more power.
It will take more than 1000w to haul a lot of weight up a steep hill. I carry up to 500 pounds of total weight over the rocky mountains on my cargo bike, and I run it's large motor on 2000w. This gets me up the steep grades at 15 mph, fast enough to be relatively efficient. It's a relatively large, relatively slow motor, a crystalyte 5305. It's the equivalent of two 9 continent 2808 motors, so I only need the one motor.
But I do know, that if you plan to ride slow, the slower winding version of the hubmotor is what you want.
I do know, any winding will climb better in a smaller wheel size.
So the starting point will be finding the slow motors, in a 20 inch rim. If it's a big motor, you can heave power at it with both hands. If it's more bike size, then two motors will carry more power.
It will take more than 1000w to haul a lot of weight up a steep hill. I carry up to 500 pounds of total weight over the rocky mountains on my cargo bike, and I run it's large motor on 2000w. This gets me up the steep grades at 15 mph, fast enough to be relatively efficient. It's a relatively large, relatively slow motor, a crystalyte 5305. It's the equivalent of two 9 continent 2808 motors, so I only need the one motor.
Similar threads
