Puma/Infineon bike review

[Fishmasterdan]

Bike cheapy walmart bike. (sorry for the pictures cant figure out why my camera takes every thing a little blurry)

Freewheel Puma hub motor. Ordered from teamhybrid@btinternet.com (Mark)

Controller ordered from Knuckles rnich01@optonline.net (Bob) I really enjoyed dealing with Bob.

Battery's 6 pack of V28 li ion milwaukee packs

Running 14s 3p batteries.
Eveything fits nice and tidy in the rear bag. No wires hanging out or running down the frame. I routed them in the frame for the throttle
Driver 270 lb


So far I am ABSOLUTLY impressed. You can take right off from a dead stop. I have not found a hill it wont climb. So far I have road approx 10 miles in one stretch pedaling along mildly and it used 4600 mah of the 9000 (aprox.) mah available. I suspect I was going about 25 mph the whole way, up and down several hills (there is nothing flat where I live).

This was a specific design to ride into the mountains up step hills, and so far I cannot find any drawbacks. The controller does get a little warm (probably 120f) so I put some vent holes in the battey bag.

Noise, well it has 2 nylon gears and 1 metal gear and it does make a little noise not real bad. I hope that some one on here can recommend a grease that would quite down the gears.

So far EVERYONE that has rode it, is impressed. I have had 3 people already want to buy it and I have had on the rode for a few days.


A few question for the masses.
Can any recommend a grease for the gears in the motor?
I would like to put a CA on but am not sure if it would work??

To sum it up. I could not be happier. I was expecting something that you would have to pedal hard to make it up the steep hills around here. I have to find a hill to push the limits of casual pedaling.

Thanks Bob and Mark.

Dan

 

[pwbset]

Nice report thanks for sharing! Like what you did with the V28s there. Are you bypassing the BMS on discharge with those Deans? You'll only ever see close to 9ah if you take the cells down to 2v/cell at like .2C. At any kind of ebike load with hills etc 7.6-8ah is much more realistic, but I suspect you already know all that based on that tidy looking work etc. Stealthy build!

 

[Fishmasterdan]

I am finding out the 3ah rating of these are more like 2800 or lower. When they dump they are still at 3.3 per cell. I did put back 2300 mah in a pack and it was still going strong. I will get a more accurate useable ah rating as I ride it some more. No sense in bench testing the cells when I could be ride testing them

I am just using the BMS on the charge side. I cant find a decent BMS that isnt based on rocket science yet . I just hacked the electronics in the drill packs and use them as the charger they balance fine (so far) and charge in an hour.

 

[recumbent]

Which Infineon controler did you use?
Is 25MPH the maximum speed?

Are the "V28" wired up to make 84 volts?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm not familiar with all the tool-pack batteries.

Thanks for the review though.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Which Infineon controler did you use?
Is 25MPH the maximum speed?

Are the "V28" wired up to make 84 volts?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm not familiar with all the tool-pack batteries.

Thanks for the review though.

I got the "Any voltage controller" 50a

I cant answer the MAX speed thing for sure because I dont have a GPS but it goes faster than I care to ride on my bike. It goes faster than I can pedal in high gear.

The batteries are wired so I get 56v (about 58 when fully charged). They are the same voltage as Li po packs so 4.2v per cell when charged. It was not hard to redo the battery and charger. I have simple schematics for the pack contruction and charger if you need it. Basically I have (6) 28v packs that I can hook up any voltage I want. If the controller could handle 88v I would try that but I was told not to do it with the controller I have.

Dan

 

[Joey]

Yes please, more information on your pack construction. I am using eight V28's in their original packages which are rather large.

-- Joey

 

[recumbent]

I cant answer the MAX speed thing for sure because I dont have a GPS but it goes faster than I care to ride on my bike. It goes faster than I can pedal in high gear.

Good answer, that means your probably travelling at over 30 MPH. I can barely keep up with the Clyte 406 motor i have, and I'm only running 48 volts at just under 30 MPH.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Joey;
I started by reading this thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5585610

After I got into my packs I realized my electronics we not the the same as the ones in that thread. If you have different electronics than thats in that thread I will scan my schematics and post it.

I used Novak battery bars http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMGJ5&P=FR to join the batteries together.

145mm shrink from here http://www.battlepack.com/A123.asp

Used (3) of these http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2156&Product_Name=HXT_T-Connector_Series_Pack_lead of course I made my own.

and (1) 3port parallel adaptor it looks like this http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2155&Product_Name=HXT_T-Connector_Parallel_Pack_lead but with (3) male fittings.

your gonna need ALOT of deans if you do what I did.

I will be building another battery system for a relative if you get hung up I can take some pics along the way.

Charger http://www.toolbarn.com/product/milwaukee/48-59-0280/

Dan

 

[shinyballs]

Awesome review! gratis! I guess you got the motor already built on the wheel... did you notice any dish on the spokes - meaning are hub & spokes centered to the rim, and can you comment on the quality/gauge of the spokes,rim?

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Shinyballs.

I did buy the wheel laced. The spokes are 14 gauge steel spokes. They seem to be holding up fine. I did have a problem with getting the brakes centered on the wheel so I took it to my LBS and they reailgned/centered and trued the wheel for my bike.

Its hard to answer to question completely honest because I had the bike shop retrue everything (its was something like 65$). I can only assume every bike has a few quarks with the dropouts and getting their wheel centered.

I am helping a reative build another bike. This time I am just going to omit the wheel build part and have the LBS build the wheel. Might cost a little more but I know, it cant get bent in shipping

Hope that helps not sure if I answered your question or not.

 

[deecanio]

Hi Fishmasterdan,

i'm glad you like your puma, they are awesome little motors capable of great acceleration.
As far as CA goes i would say if you have an infinion controller then maybe all the functions of the CA might not work, well at least not without some jiggery pokery to marry it up,Imo you may be better off with just a DB, you'll get all the necessary readings and probably get one for cheaper too, tbh with you i still use my DB now as i dont really need all the capabilities of the CA.look into it some, maybe a db will suit your needs too.


Cheers,

D

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Hi Fishmasterdan,

i'm glad you like your puma, they are awesome little motors capable of great acceleration.
As far as CA goes i would say if you have an infinion controller then maybe all the functions of the CA might not work, well at least not without some jiggery pokery to marry it up,Imo you may be better off with just a DB, you'll get all the necessary readings and probably get one for cheaper too, tbh with you i still use my DB now as i dont really need all the capabilities of the CA.look into it some, maybe a db will suit your needs too.


Cheers,

D

HUH what is a DB?? What is tbh?? jiggery pokery is my kinda language :lol:
Thanks for the advise.

 

[recumbent]

The Infineon controler from http://www.comcycle-usa.com have a direct plug-in for the Cycle analyst. Maybe yours does also.

 

[Ypedal]

tbh = to be honest
DB = Drain Brain aka Cycle Analyst - see http://www.ebikes.ca

 

[deecanio]

The Infineon controler from http://www.comcycle-usa.com have a direct plug-in for the Cycle analyst. Maybe yours does also.

huh, i didn't know that, thanks for the correction recumbent,Y.
yes sorry Fmd i use abreviations without thinking sometimes, oh there i go again.
Anyway yes see if your infineon has the connector for the Cycle Analyst if so happy days. you can look at ebikes.ca for the full spec of both units and then decide what functions you want and which you could live without.

Cheers,

D

 

[Fishmasterdan]

I put a simple watt meter on it today for some fun. From a stop ,full throttle it pulls 1800 watts. Going up a steep hill with pedaling along it was not hard to hit 1000 watts. I can go up a hill (that I used to stuggle in granny gear) without pedaling (1500 watts). I am loving this Ebike stuff.

Dan

 

[dogman dan]

1500 watts and gears should get you up any hill. 8) I should know this, but is a puma the same as a BMC? Or a Bafang? Or something else entirely, I've not seen them for sale so I'm a little confused as to what a puma is.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

1500 watts and gears should get you up any hill. 8) I should know this, but is a puma the same as a BMC? Or a Bafang? Or something else entirely, I've not seen them for sale so I'm a little confused as to what a puma is.

Dog;
The PUMA is a large Bafang. I think its the same as the BMC motors, from what I have read on here there are made in the same place, but not sure exactly. You can buy them from Mark Higgon teamhybrid@btinternet.com .

I am not sure why they are not any offical web site (for sale).

Dan

 

[fechter]

The Puma is very similar to the BMC geared motor, but not exactly the same. There are some differences in the housing that are obvious. The insides look nearly identical.

 

[Russell]

1500 watts and gears should get you up any hill. 8) I should know this, but is a puma the same as a BMC? Or a Bafang? Or something else entirely, I've not seen them for sale so I'm a little confused as to what a puma is.

From what I've read on this forum the Puma is just another name for the original version motor from BMC. The new improved 600W version has been dubbed "Thunderbolt" by the folks at hi-powercycles.com. At Cycle9 they call the early 400W version "V1" and the new 600W version "V2-S" for the motor wound for speed and "V2-T" for the version wound for torque. Meanwhile at hi-powercycles.com they call the torquey version "Striker".

Marketing

P.S. There are a number of different Bafang motors with different model numbers but I haven't seen any fancy names for them, everyone just calls 'em Bafangs or those little 8Fun motors.

-R

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks, I get confused sometimes with all the marketing names, I had the idea that puma was something from the past, but hadn't seen anybody selling them currently, so I thought it might be a BMC from an out of buisness seller or something.
When I first got into ebikes, I had a hard time sorting all the names different sellers had for the same thing.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Recent news/updates.

I was able to melt down the controller. I am not getting very much, if any airflow thru the controller so I am going to add a couple fans.
I ride for a purpose, to get places gold is hiding . It takes me up old skid roads thru woods and over the steepest terrain you can think of.Sometimes I am in low gear pedaling my ass off with half throttle or more trying to make it up a hill. Mud and soft ground is VERY diffucult to ride in.

So I sent the controller back to knuckles who is repairing it. I will put it thru a tortute test again.
I would have thought the motor would get hot or be the weak link but I have not seen any signs of it heating up.

O ya I have upgraded my batteries for an endless current supply 12 pack of milwaukee cells 14s 6p for a grand total of 1044W/H . Or 18ah (I have been told its less but I am using the manufacture's rating) so I have at least 180amps available . No voltage sag for me

Need to figure out how to add a temp sensor in the motor and controller so I can monitor it from the seat.???

 

[JoeG]

Check out Eagletree Systems Elogger. You can monitor temp, amps, volts and so on, both real time and later on your PC. It is a radio control item that is useful for E-bikes also.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Thanks for the info Joe, I think that is the route I am going to take.

Update on the system.
I have received a new controller and am back in business. I put a 30 a fuse in it and not blown it yet. I am running the system pretty hard. I cant see how people are getting 2kw out of there systems and not overheating the speed control. Any more than 1kw sustain for 5 minutes brings the speed control up to 130 f??

 

[Fishmasterdan]

I went down and picked up a speedometer (and ordered some eagle tree parts).

As far as speed goes the max speed on the speedodometer say's 35.2. That would of happened going down hill but 30 is not that hard to get to 30 on flat ground with my bike and average peadling.