Pumas to Have Metal Gears on High Power

[knoxie]

Hello

Just got off the phone with Mark from Team Hybrid, he will be ordering in the new 320RPM 500W Pumas soon, a 100 in total with controllers, also the factory have agreed that steel gears on power levels above 1000W would be advisable, with this in mind they are going to produce a percentage of the motors with the steel gears and ship a selection of gears to use as retrofit for existing motors.

Mark will also be asking them to key the rotor to the axle, this will fix the slippage issue that sometimes occurs on high power levels. All in all with the revised cable sizing and custom controller should make this off the shelf one of the best little drive packages around.

The steel gears will increase noise levels of course however they will ensure power users need never worry about gear wear, they will of course require a little period inspection and a lick of grease, small price to pay for a very light and extremely powerful motor such as the puma.

I have been away so have not yet tested the new controller yet, I am shipping the 320W motor back to Mark so he can test it in a 26 Inch wheel, this should push 27mph at 37V in a 26 inch wheel and still maintain a high level of torque for hill climbing.

As soon as I know more detail I will post pictures.

Knoxie

 

[xyster]

Thanks for the info, Knoxie. This is good news for those of us who love the X5's performance, but not its weight. Since you've used the metal gears, do you know how much weight metal gears add to the motor over nylon gears?

 

[magudaman]

It has the x5 price already what are the metal gear ones going to cost?

 

[Jozzer]

I understand there will soon be a new website dedicated to the Puma, with all info, prices, and if were lucky some graphs and stuff from the factory
I doubt the metal geared version will be significantly more expensive..

 

[deecanio]

looking forward to the factory built motors,they really should be a cracking choice (must order my 320 now).
keep us informed mate - futures bright, futures puma ;p

Cheers


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Sorry for the delay been busy with a job!! hmm yes the new Puma gears is an exiting development for sure, not everyone will need them of course and they will be noisier than the Nylon ones, they will make for a stonking motor combo.

If they add in an NTC thermistor as well or a button stat that would make them bullet proof, my only concern would be the motor temperature going too high, as the windings on the stator are on the inside of the rotor its very hard to gauge the operating temperature of the motor, a suitably placed NTC thermistor linked to the controller would be used on the input to the bus limiter to reduce the power output slowly as the temp increased past safe levels for the insulation resistance, as its not generally a good Idea to just cut the motor power out, this would then give you time to peddle or let the motor cool off.

To be fair to the factory the motor was never intended to be run so hard, however it does have the potential to run safely with good reliability when they make the changes, with steel gears and all the features incorporated its a tough motor to beat, the gears will make hardly any difference to the weight, the noise is the only issue, the main rotor gear will be turning at over 3,500 rpm, it may chime a little

Glad Jozzer has his running ok, I should be able to go and test the new controller tomorrow again before I ship it back to Mark which I should have done last week! me bad boy!!!

Take Care

Knoxie

 

[fechter]

Hi
Sorry for the delay been busy with a job!! hmm yes the new Puma gears is an exiting development for sure, not everyone will need them of course and they will be noisier than the Nylon ones, they will make for a stonking motor combo.

Knoxie

Job? NO EXCUSE.

That's great the metal gears will be available as a retrofit. Good for when (if) nylon ones fail.

Noise is not a real problem for me. I can just turn off my hearing aids Besides, I bet it sounds sort of cool.
It will be interesting to get a test report on that.

 

[xyster]

Noise is not a real problem for me. I can just turn off my hearing aids

:lol:

That's a big advantage in this noisy world.

 

[solarbbq2003]

why not use one metal and two nylon like other manufacturers?
keeps noise down but adds strength

 

[fechter]

That might be a good approach.

I want to see just how loud it is with 3 metal ones. With 3 nylon ones, it's nearly silent.

 

[Microbatman]

Can I order one with nylon gears and get a metal gear replacement kit sperate? What about the ratio's is there enough room to put in 7:1 or 8:1 in the current hub platform?
When will this be shipping.
How will you know the difference between the nylong gear model and the metal gear model?

 

[rhubarb]

I got 2 days of mind boggling performance out of my new Puma at 84V / 35A (in a KMX) before hearing a strange noise and sudden cessation of wheelspin while going up some really steep gravel. I'm assuming my nylon gears are shredded. I will now go and order some steel ones!

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes I did suspect that this would happen, i had it happen on a much more sedate voltage, I have not fitted steel ones yet just replaced the nylon ones with tougher nylon ones, steel can be dropped in but would be noisy, but how much more i dont know.

I am surprised Jozzer hasnt had a prob either? also sometimes it can be the rotor slipping on the drive shaft, i welded mine up to stop this, from the factory new ones are keyed so they should not slip. Have a look and let us know, you should be able to get some gears easily whether you go nylon or steel, if you fit steel they will need plenty of grease and periodic cleaning and inspection.

Knoxie

 

[shinyballs]

Where do you get steel gears for it?
Last time I emailed teamhybrid and got a response last April 7:

Hi JoJo

Thank you for the enquiry we do not have the Puma motor with steel gears as this is not really a necessity, unfortunately we are still waiting for the Controller issue to be sorted out so we have nothing we can sell.

Regards
Mark Higgon.
----------------------------------------
T e a m H y b r i d L t d

Silverstone
Chapel Road
Soberton Heath
Hampshire SO32 3PP
UK

Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1329 830117
Mobile: +44 (0) 7941 006324

sales@teamhybrid.co.uk
http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk


Aren't they concerned about reliability? for me I don't mind the noise as long as its not as loud as a Harley. Reliability is the utmost importance!

 

[Jozzer]

Idd, I am beginning to be surprised myself..i had one of the new ones running at 80v and 90A for a few days last week, and my motors going as strong as ever!
I've abused some 6 or 7 motors here, and not had one failure yet! I must not be trtying hard enough :lol:

 

[MidniteTweeker]

I guess one way of looking at the nylon/metal gear situation is that when you strip the nylon gears at least those are cheap and easily replaceable and you don't strip a metal gear at the same time. But if you run metal on metal, don't you run the risk of stripping both and thus creating a costly mess?

MT

 

[Jozzer]

THis may well be true, only time will tell ont hat front!

 

[geoff57]

Can I order one with nylon gears and get a metal gear replacement kit sperate? What about the ratio's is there enough room to put in 7:1 or 8:1 in the current hub platform?
When will this be shipping.
How will you know the difference between the nylong gear model and the metal gear model?

hi all
just found this thread, microbatman the puma comes with nylon gears fitted look at my thread on KMX Viper check from the url below
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4189&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60#p70636
no idea on altering gear ratio. since the metal gears are a retro fit the only way of telling the difference is to look inside not possable on the bike or the noise,though that is speculation as I have not run my motor yet and the gears have been changed to metal and I will not change one of thoese unless I have to look at the thread.

I need some advice on torque arms, the mk2 puma can take a 7 speed block instead of a single freewheel, this meens that where I would normaly put 2 beefy torque arms 8mm thick stainless steel this time I have to cut down the drive side to avoid the derailler arm.

these are mockups close to the final shape that I can have the problem is the top one has a thin arm, at the moment 5mm by 8mm is this going to be enough with the other side having a 20mm by 8mm arm, with that size a torque arm do I need 2 or will 1 do the job.

 

[Jozzer]

One does the job for me Geoff, but your shiny new KMX may have different dropouts. I did inform them that the dropouts were antihubmotor over a year ago, and was told they would consider that in the new version..

 

[geoff57]

One does the job for me Geoff, but your shiny new KMX may have different dropouts. I did inform them that the dropouts were antihubmotor over a year ago, and was told they would consider that in the new version..

hi jozzer
the dropouts still are not that friendly I will put my motor in the kmx and take a closeup of both sides a torque arm will fix this.
got a most expesive price from the lazer cutter of £15 for the pair the postage would be the same so I will collect from them.
more later getting new iPhone front of que

 

[solarbbq2003]

why not use modded v2 controller works with bmc up to 3,670rpm on 86v, not tested at higher volts, 86v 35amp should be ok

 

[geoff57]

hi all
I need some opinions, I will be running a mk2 puma with metal gears on my viper, so 24" wheel 72v duct tape battery so actually 76.8v I have 1 torque arm getting made out of 8mm 304 stainless steel for the non-drive side with a 20mm deep 110mm long arm any gap between chainstay and arm will be filled so there is no movement, the drive side torque arm is not easy to design, I have to get round the deurailler which is causing a thin arm I do not think this will be of any good so a re-design of the drive side arm to do away with the arm and just have the axel enclosed on the drive side there are 3 m3 bolts on the drive side dropout thease will be used to bolt the torque plate to the dropout. will the arm on the non-drive side be enough or do I need to work out a way to get more if so all I can do is thicken the non-drive arm.

 

[deecanio]

hi Geoff,

fwiw at 80v i would much prefer the two arms tbh.
I know this is a bummer but i found much like you probably will that my drive side arm is much the stronger of the two?
looking at your mock ups again i would be a little worried by how much metal you actually have on the non drive side near the axel hole itself? it looks very thin to me there?
if the mock up hasnt changed then i would say dont even consider that as your only support.
I have the same issue even though i have already had mine made - because i want the wheel central with no dishing there isn't space to fit my arm and so i'll have to have another one made.
I'd be thinking with all the effort you put in rewiring why take the chance? if the one does fail thats probably going to cost you wayyyyy more than having the drive side made, there must be a way to work with trhe deraileur - post up a pic of each side of the drops?
just for comparison when i ran 72v 40a i had 2 x arms both 6mm thick and it worked nicely.


Cheers


D

 

[geoff57]

hi D
the latest designs in cad screenshots have been posted on the viper thread take a look.