jslabonte
10 W
I am in for a q100.
Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations
- Thread starter Jasonv8z
- Start date
ScooterMan101
1 MW
With side exit wiring ?
Please let Jason know, he has to come up with a 50 motor order , in order to get the Q100 with Side Exit Wires .
Please let Jason know, he has to come up with a 50 motor order , in order to get the Q100 with Side Exit Wires .
jslabonte said:
Mikebergy
1 W
I am still ready for a front and rear matching motors. Just let me know what is going to be made available and how much. I'll be running 12 or 14s in a 700c wheel set.
Sunder
10 MW
Hey all.
To be frankly honest with you, I think getting a 50 order of any one single motor design here is unlikely, so I'm going to pull out any commitment to this thread, and look at other options. Sorry guys. It was good in theory, but I just don't think it's going to happen.
Best of luck to those staying in the group buy
To be frankly honest with you, I think getting a 50 order of any one single motor design here is unlikely, so I'm going to pull out any commitment to this thread, and look at other options. Sorry guys. It was good in theory, but I just don't think it's going to happen.
Best of luck to those staying in the group buy
Allex
100 MW
Any news on this one?
In any case, any recommendations on where to get q100 motor laced in a rim, black is the preferred color.
In any case, any recommendations on where to get q100 motor laced in a rim, black is the preferred color.
chas58
10 kW
I would just buy the bare motor, its just not worth the expensive shipping cost for a fully laced chinese POS shoddy build quality wheel. Shipping something that large from China is expensive. For the shipping cost, I would rather get a nice quality, light, strong wheel that matches my bike and front wheel, built up by a local shop that is going to take care of me. Just my 2 cents worth.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Allex,
The news is that they are on hold for right now, the factory wants Jayson to buy $ 40,000 + worth at a time, and you can see from this thread there just is not enough people
who have contacted him to be able to sell that many.
There could be some other news from Jayson though, and good news at that , He will have to be the one to tell you. Stay Tuned.
On the Subject on where to buy a Q100 motor now, there is bmsbattery.com
However
You have to be very careful when ordering from them, you could get a different speed motor if you do not check the right box, and on other items there are chances of getting something
different than what you want, like do you want a cassette version, or freewheel, and do you want a Q100 with 32 spoke holes or 36 spoke holes.
When ordering from them be careful to make sure you check all the right boxes.
also do you want the newer connectors ( Higo Connectors ) ? there is a place on the website to order that with a little bottle controller .
If you can contact Paul at Em3ev and get him to carry the little Q100 there would be much better communication and customer service.
The one good thing about bmsbattery.com is that the parts should come to your house in just under 2 weeks, ( people here in the U.S.A. are reporting that )
What bike are you wanting to put the little Q100 motor on ?
I ask because I see as your Avatar , that you have a Enduro Frame ?
I am just now beginning to experiment with the little Q100c CST , to see what it can do, in terms of performance and speed.
There are people here on E.S. that have allot more experience than me with the little Q100, and from all that I have read from them, I am finding the pretty much the same results as them, but getting
a little better performance because I have it on a 22 pound ( 10 Kg. ) Adventure Road Bike.
in 2 cases , I have found out just as recently as yesterday, just how hard you can push the motor before it fails.
Just yesterday I found out that even though another E.S. member here was using the 328 rpm speed version , laced up to a 700c road wheel, and it was running fine like that
for a year and a half at speeds that equal the speeds of a Pro Peleton , that he finally burned it out by going from a 12 s battery pack, ( 2 x 6s lipo's ) to a 48 volt 18650 pack, and with that 48 volt pack , one day he tried to ride into a very strong
headwind , and put 1000 watts into the motor, which ruined it in just a couple of minutes. If I remember right , before that he would only put up to 600 +/- a little watts into it.
And just last week , I found out that another E.S. member here , ruined the gears of a little Q100, by running it at higher voltages, 60 or 72 ? perhaps if he reads this he can elaborate.
So even though I wrote on another thread just last week about me trying a 328 rpm speed version on a 700c Wheel , of the Q100c CST sometime in the future, it looks like now that if I do, I will be using a 36 volt ( 10s ) battery pack or up to a 12s pack at most , and I will keep the watts to under 650 .
chas58 is right about wheels, from what I have read on his other posts, he is a serious road bike rider , serious Roadies know what works best when going/aiming for the performance envelope of bike riding.
( when I am out riding on my electric bike there are many serious Roadies that pass me / ride faster than me, and they are just using their legs/lungs/cardiovascular system, and their carbon road bikes. )
The Chinese build up wheels are more expensive to ship than just the hub , also the Rim Material and spokes are just not made with the Quality Metals you can get otherwise. and they all need to be trued, and even dished in some cases.
so you wind up taking the wheel to your local bike shop, ( LBS ) anyway.
You can lace up the wheel yourself to a quality rim like a DT Swiss , use 1 cross lacing pattern. alternating them does not work well on just a 1 cross, The first Q100c CST I had built by a wheel builder , he used 2 cross pattern and the spoke angles are not as good as the one I just laced up myself last week, using a 1 cross pattern. I laced it up with the spokes put from the outside of the flange in, I think some people call them " Outties " . all the spokes the same on 1 cross,
rec- amended to me by Chalo and he is right , this second Q100c built wheel is looking better than my first. And I did the lacing myself. so thanks to Ykick for also rec-amending a 1 cross pattern , although I find lacing up half of the spokes , then the other half on each side, easier than his 4 spokes at a time method. Also I like 32 hole better as with 32 hole I can find a larger number of rims to chose from.
Also on the Q100 motor , or any motor I prefer a Cassette version, I have turned by hand freewheels, and compared them to cassettes, and the cassettes from Shimano and Sram are much more efficient/smoother working.
The most experienced users of the Q100 motor , here on E.S. that post about and where you can find opinions on the Q100 are.
d8veh in England
motomech in Tuscon
Ykick in NYC
Sunder in Sydney
With my experience I would only buy/use a Q100 motor, and just the Q100c CST one at that, on a sub 11 Kg. bike, with low rolling resistance tires, in an area with not very steep hills that long in length.
Stockholm would be perfect.
Hej
The news is that they are on hold for right now, the factory wants Jayson to buy $ 40,000 + worth at a time, and you can see from this thread there just is not enough people
who have contacted him to be able to sell that many.
There could be some other news from Jayson though, and good news at that , He will have to be the one to tell you. Stay Tuned.
On the Subject on where to buy a Q100 motor now, there is bmsbattery.com
However
You have to be very careful when ordering from them, you could get a different speed motor if you do not check the right box, and on other items there are chances of getting something
different than what you want, like do you want a cassette version, or freewheel, and do you want a Q100 with 32 spoke holes or 36 spoke holes.
When ordering from them be careful to make sure you check all the right boxes.
also do you want the newer connectors ( Higo Connectors ) ? there is a place on the website to order that with a little bottle controller .
If you can contact Paul at Em3ev and get him to carry the little Q100 there would be much better communication and customer service.
The one good thing about bmsbattery.com is that the parts should come to your house in just under 2 weeks, ( people here in the U.S.A. are reporting that )
What bike are you wanting to put the little Q100 motor on ?
I ask because I see as your Avatar , that you have a Enduro Frame ?
I am just now beginning to experiment with the little Q100c CST , to see what it can do, in terms of performance and speed.
There are people here on E.S. that have allot more experience than me with the little Q100, and from all that I have read from them, I am finding the pretty much the same results as them, but getting
a little better performance because I have it on a 22 pound ( 10 Kg. ) Adventure Road Bike.
in 2 cases , I have found out just as recently as yesterday, just how hard you can push the motor before it fails.
Just yesterday I found out that even though another E.S. member here was using the 328 rpm speed version , laced up to a 700c road wheel, and it was running fine like that
for a year and a half at speeds that equal the speeds of a Pro Peleton , that he finally burned it out by going from a 12 s battery pack, ( 2 x 6s lipo's ) to a 48 volt 18650 pack, and with that 48 volt pack , one day he tried to ride into a very strong
headwind , and put 1000 watts into the motor, which ruined it in just a couple of minutes. If I remember right , before that he would only put up to 600 +/- a little watts into it.
And just last week , I found out that another E.S. member here , ruined the gears of a little Q100, by running it at higher voltages, 60 or 72 ? perhaps if he reads this he can elaborate.
So even though I wrote on another thread just last week about me trying a 328 rpm speed version on a 700c Wheel , of the Q100c CST sometime in the future, it looks like now that if I do, I will be using a 36 volt ( 10s ) battery pack or up to a 12s pack at most , and I will keep the watts to under 650 .
chas58 is right about wheels, from what I have read on his other posts, he is a serious road bike rider , serious Roadies know what works best when going/aiming for the performance envelope of bike riding.
( when I am out riding on my electric bike there are many serious Roadies that pass me / ride faster than me, and they are just using their legs/lungs/cardiovascular system, and their carbon road bikes. )
The Chinese build up wheels are more expensive to ship than just the hub , also the Rim Material and spokes are just not made with the Quality Metals you can get otherwise. and they all need to be trued, and even dished in some cases.
so you wind up taking the wheel to your local bike shop, ( LBS ) anyway.
You can lace up the wheel yourself to a quality rim like a DT Swiss , use 1 cross lacing pattern. alternating them does not work well on just a 1 cross, The first Q100c CST I had built by a wheel builder , he used 2 cross pattern and the spoke angles are not as good as the one I just laced up myself last week, using a 1 cross pattern. I laced it up with the spokes put from the outside of the flange in, I think some people call them " Outties " . all the spokes the same on 1 cross,
rec- amended to me by Chalo and he is right , this second Q100c built wheel is looking better than my first. And I did the lacing myself. so thanks to Ykick for also rec-amending a 1 cross pattern , although I find lacing up half of the spokes , then the other half on each side, easier than his 4 spokes at a time method. Also I like 32 hole better as with 32 hole I can find a larger number of rims to chose from.
Also on the Q100 motor , or any motor I prefer a Cassette version, I have turned by hand freewheels, and compared them to cassettes, and the cassettes from Shimano and Sram are much more efficient/smoother working.
The most experienced users of the Q100 motor , here on E.S. that post about and where you can find opinions on the Q100 are.
d8veh in England
motomech in Tuscon
Ykick in NYC
Sunder in Sydney
With my experience I would only buy/use a Q100 motor, and just the Q100c CST one at that, on a sub 11 Kg. bike, with low rolling resistance tires, in an area with not very steep hills that long in length.
Stockholm would be perfect.
Hej
Allex said:
Allex
100 MW
Scooter! Thats a great post by you, wow!
I will be using it on a regular MTB 26" the avatar is my old Stealth so it is not for that one =)
I did a post on my req. in another thread here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55477&start=275#p1216471
Basically I want to have a very light bike 10s battery and about 40km/h on 26" if this will get me ~40 I am willing to build 12s battery. Powrer would be 20-25A peak for a few seconds, so lets hope it will hold. I can always install temp sensor as I will be having CA on the handlebar.
So I am leaning towards q100h casette(or it does not have that option?) 260rpm version hoping it will do alright!
motomech tells me that "The H is capable of a higher power level than the CST, but for a rear mount, it requires a free wheel, which I do not much care for.
I run both on 17 Amp controllers, but the H model will take up to 22 A. The CST is best left @ 17 Amp."
Oh and great tip about Paul, I was actually thinking about contacting him regading q100...
Thx!
I will be using it on a regular MTB 26" the avatar is my old Stealth so it is not for that one =)
I did a post on my req. in another thread here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55477&start=275#p1216471
Basically I want to have a very light bike 10s battery and about 40km/h on 26" if this will get me ~40 I am willing to build 12s battery. Powrer would be 20-25A peak for a few seconds, so lets hope it will hold. I can always install temp sensor as I will be having CA on the handlebar.
So I am leaning towards q100h casette(or it does not have that option?) 260rpm version hoping it will do alright!
motomech tells me that "The H is capable of a higher power level than the CST, but for a rear mount, it requires a free wheel, which I do not much care for.
I run both on 17 Amp controllers, but the H model will take up to 22 A. The CST is best left @ 17 Amp."
Oh and great tip about Paul, I was actually thinking about contacting him regading q100...
Thx!
motomech
10 MW
Paul introduced the "Cute" years ago when it was a prototype. He was the first to open one and the first to count the gears, etc.
He was cel-man then and you can search his posts.
So he knows them well and I'm betting that now that he is busy w/ the Macs and central motors, that he probably doesn't think the mini's are worth the trouble.
He was cel-man then and you can search his posts.
So he knows them well and I'm betting that now that he is busy w/ the Macs and central motors, that he probably doesn't think the mini's are worth the trouble.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Update : just 6 or so hours after writing up about my wheel build, ( 2 posts up from this one )
I just now got a call from the Pro wheel builder who is Truing and Dishing my Wheel.
after the work of truing and dishing, he did a side load test, and called me with
some bad news .
The Alex TD17 36 hole ( 700c ) rim is not very strong, that is something I already had thought, because by doing a over the leg
test on it several months ago. it felt very weak compared to a 32 hole DT Swiss 485 D Rim that I have sitting around .
Anyway he put it on the drive side axle , put his hands at the 9 and 3 position and did a test. and it flexed way more than he was comfortable with.
He says that the 1 cross I did is very weak on the Alex Rim.
He is now recommending a 2 cross, and doing interlacing , meaning one spoke from outside in and the next spoke from inside out.
The person who sold me the Q100c cst has the belief that 36 holes make for a strong wheel build. and he only had a 36 hole Q100c CST available.
I have always felt that a good quality 32 hole rim is better and that 36 holes is not needed .
I am now wanting to only use 32 hole rims , since we all have a much better selection of 32 hole rims available to buy .
I just now got a call from the Pro wheel builder who is Truing and Dishing my Wheel.
after the work of truing and dishing, he did a side load test, and called me with
some bad news .
The Alex TD17 36 hole ( 700c ) rim is not very strong, that is something I already had thought, because by doing a over the leg
test on it several months ago. it felt very weak compared to a 32 hole DT Swiss 485 D Rim that I have sitting around .
Anyway he put it on the drive side axle , put his hands at the 9 and 3 position and did a test. and it flexed way more than he was comfortable with.
He says that the 1 cross I did is very weak on the Alex Rim.
He is now recommending a 2 cross, and doing interlacing , meaning one spoke from outside in and the next spoke from inside out.
The person who sold me the Q100c cst has the belief that 36 holes make for a strong wheel build. and he only had a 36 hole Q100c CST available.
I have always felt that a good quality 32 hole rim is better and that 36 holes is not needed .
I am now wanting to only use 32 hole rims , since we all have a much better selection of 32 hole rims available to buy .
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Interesting, and good history that I did not know before. ( Paul the owner of Em3ev , and the little Q100 motor )
I do think the mini's are worthwhile, as long as you put them on a very light weight and efficient bike like a Road Bike.
I have a Mac motor as well, but it is 9.5 pounds, that is 5 pounds heaver than the Q100c CST !
An , Extra , 5 pounds ( 2.27 Kg. ) is allot of weight on a wheel .
Now that the New Mac's have better Disc Caliper Clearance , meaning you no longer have to use a 203 mm Disc Rotor, and when they are available to
be able to accept a better cog set , ( meaning a Cassette ) they will be a motor that I have a high regard for, However I still would only use one on a heaver
bike, and with bigger and lower air pressure tires, like a mountain bike.
I do think the mini's are worthwhile, as long as you put them on a very light weight and efficient bike like a Road Bike.
I have a Mac motor as well, but it is 9.5 pounds, that is 5 pounds heaver than the Q100c CST !
An , Extra , 5 pounds ( 2.27 Kg. ) is allot of weight on a wheel .
Now that the New Mac's have better Disc Caliper Clearance , meaning you no longer have to use a 203 mm Disc Rotor, and when they are available to
be able to accept a better cog set , ( meaning a Cassette ) they will be a motor that I have a high regard for, However I still would only use one on a heaver
bike, and with bigger and lower air pressure tires, like a mountain bike.
motomech said:
majornelson
100 W
How does the Q100 CST (in real world applications) compare to the Q100H?
I have an 8T and 10T Mac. Powerful with either speed or torque (from Paul EM3EV- great service and matched parts). I also have a couple of Q100's (from GreenBikeKit @ 201 rpms) The Cute's are great for low power just need an assist type of setup. And I really like the lower weight compared to the Mac.
I'm considering a stealth bike build on a cruiser frame over the winter and the CST caught my eye...
Any thoughts appreciated.
Lee
I have an 8T and 10T Mac. Powerful with either speed or torque (from Paul EM3EV- great service and matched parts). I also have a couple of Q100's (from GreenBikeKit @ 201 rpms) The Cute's are great for low power just need an assist type of setup. And I really like the lower weight compared to the Mac.
I'm considering a stealth bike build on a cruiser frame over the winter and the CST caught my eye...
Any thoughts appreciated.
Lee
ScooterMan101
1 MW
I do not have any experience with the H model of Q100,
Someone I know has and says it has a little more power.
but I forgot if it is 100 watts more or just a little more at around just under 200 more watts
that it can handle.
But I would wager to guess that a more efficient bike will make up for that small difference .
Lower weight bike and rider and tires with less rolling resistance.
Someone I know has and says it has a little more power.
but I forgot if it is 100 watts more or just a little more at around just under 200 more watts
that it can handle.
But I would wager to guess that a more efficient bike will make up for that small difference .
Lower weight bike and rider and tires with less rolling resistance.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Allex,
First from what I remember the H ( freewheel version ) does not get you that much more power.
You could most likely make up the difference with lower weight and more efficient parts on your 26 inch MTB , along with lower rolling resistance tires.
Now For a Real World Number, Numbers.
I have 16 rides now on a Q100c CST ( Cassette version ) that is a 201 Rpm , on a 650b wheel that has a 42 wide tire on it, so just under a 700c wheel outer diameter.
On a road bike that weighs 22 pounds ( 10 Kg ) to begin with, and the front wheel rim is 700c with a 90 PSI tire .
and
I am not getting up to 40 Kph, even on flat ground, with me ( 77 Kg ) pedaling . and at best ... I am getting around 36 to 38 Kph.
So without looking at any chart/motor speed calculator, using the important figures , meaning Real World out there on the Tarmac,
You with a 26 inch wheel would have to get the 328 rpm version of the Q100c CST, and yes the Q100 does come in a Cassette ready version, that is what the c, and or CST is at the end of Q100c CST means.
After my latest setback , that just happened just hours ago, I would order the 32 spoke hole version, and only get a very good quality rim like a Mavic, and/or DT Swiss
Now after saying that,
the fact that you are lacing what ever motor you get up to a 26 inch rim, you could then get a lower quality rim, only, if you get a Downhill , or Freeride Strength Rim.
Also
Now that yous see that to get the speed you want you will have to go with the faster version ( 328 rpm ) you will now also have to lower the voltage. I am not sure if you have to stay with 36 volts , or if you could use
a 12s system ( 44 volt ) although I would start with 36 volts, the controllers are cheap enough if you get the one that is a match for the Q100 motor.
I see in another post you ask about the Befang G01 and I also looked into that, since your are using a little heaver MTB as the bike, the extra 1.4 lbs ( .68 Kg ) for the G01 would not be that much, however I am only seeing a front wheel version on Grin Website, and that motor looks to be about the same power as the Q100 , just a slight bit more, it is listed at 250 watts - 500 watts, the Q100c CST is listed at 350 watts at 36 volt, and I am using 450 watts to 550 watts on my 201 rpm Q100c CST , at 48 volts and it is doing fine.
First from what I remember the H ( freewheel version ) does not get you that much more power.
You could most likely make up the difference with lower weight and more efficient parts on your 26 inch MTB , along with lower rolling resistance tires.
Now For a Real World Number, Numbers.
I have 16 rides now on a Q100c CST ( Cassette version ) that is a 201 Rpm , on a 650b wheel that has a 42 wide tire on it, so just under a 700c wheel outer diameter.
On a road bike that weighs 22 pounds ( 10 Kg ) to begin with, and the front wheel rim is 700c with a 90 PSI tire .
and
I am not getting up to 40 Kph, even on flat ground, with me ( 77 Kg ) pedaling . and at best ... I am getting around 36 to 38 Kph.
So without looking at any chart/motor speed calculator, using the important figures , meaning Real World out there on the Tarmac,
You with a 26 inch wheel would have to get the 328 rpm version of the Q100c CST, and yes the Q100 does come in a Cassette ready version, that is what the c, and or CST is at the end of Q100c CST means.
After my latest setback , that just happened just hours ago, I would order the 32 spoke hole version, and only get a very good quality rim like a Mavic, and/or DT Swiss
Now after saying that,
the fact that you are lacing what ever motor you get up to a 26 inch rim, you could then get a lower quality rim, only, if you get a Downhill , or Freeride Strength Rim.
Also
Now that yous see that to get the speed you want you will have to go with the faster version ( 328 rpm ) you will now also have to lower the voltage. I am not sure if you have to stay with 36 volts , or if you could use
a 12s system ( 44 volt ) although I would start with 36 volts, the controllers are cheap enough if you get the one that is a match for the Q100 motor.
I see in another post you ask about the Befang G01 and I also looked into that, since your are using a little heaver MTB as the bike, the extra 1.4 lbs ( .68 Kg ) for the G01 would not be that much, however I am only seeing a front wheel version on Grin Website, and that motor looks to be about the same power as the Q100 , just a slight bit more, it is listed at 250 watts - 500 watts, the Q100c CST is listed at 350 watts at 36 volt, and I am using 450 watts to 550 watts on my 201 rpm Q100c CST , at 48 volts and it is doing fine.
Allex said:
motomech
10 MW
What's being over-looked here is system efficiency.
If one uses the Sim. @ Ebike CA, you get these numbers;
201 motor in 700cc whl. on 48 Volts/20 Amps=21.6 Mph w/ 80% efficiency
328(Actual 290 rpm @ 36V)motor on 36V/20A= 23 Mph w/ 73% efficiency.
A reduction of 7% efficiency would be noticable in range, but more importantly, indicates the controller will be trying to max the Amps a greater % of the time leading to controller over-heating.
When one reads of guys using high-speed mini's in big wheels, I strongly suspect they are very fit roadie types.
For the rest of us, a high-speed mini in a big wheel is a mistake. A mid-speed (260) has proven time after time to be the best overall combo for 90% of riders.
If a rider needs a Cute(any speed version) to do more than 24-25 mph reliably, then he needs to think about a larger motor.
The fact that the 260 in not Cassette capable is unfortunate, but it makes a frt. mount 260H attractive.
Note; Use MXUS FX07 as 201 motor on sim.
If one uses the Sim. @ Ebike CA, you get these numbers;
201 motor in 700cc whl. on 48 Volts/20 Amps=21.6 Mph w/ 80% efficiency
328(Actual 290 rpm @ 36V)motor on 36V/20A= 23 Mph w/ 73% efficiency.
A reduction of 7% efficiency would be noticable in range, but more importantly, indicates the controller will be trying to max the Amps a greater % of the time leading to controller over-heating.
When one reads of guys using high-speed mini's in big wheels, I strongly suspect they are very fit roadie types.
For the rest of us, a high-speed mini in a big wheel is a mistake. A mid-speed (260) has proven time after time to be the best overall combo for 90% of riders.
If a rider needs a Cute(any speed version) to do more than 24-25 mph reliably, then he needs to think about a larger motor.
The fact that the 260 in not Cassette capable is unfortunate, but it makes a frt. mount 260H attractive.
Note; Use MXUS FX07 as 201 motor on sim.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Hmm,
You see my 201 rpm , in a 650 b wheel with road / 42mm wide road tire on it, at 48 volts is very close to the speed the Simulator says for 48volt 20 amp , However
My 48 volt controller is limited to 14 amps +/- one amp ( that is what the sticker on it says ) , so I am using up to 15 amps, but getting closer to what the Simulator says for using 5 more ( 25% ) more amps.
Interesting,
So from my Real World Figures, the ebikes.ca simulator will not do calculation for under 20 amps, and when I try to see what a 52 volt battery would do , it is only showing a massive 20 amp hour 52 volt battery pack.
it would seem like the way to go for getting the max speed at best efficiency is 201 rpm Q100c CST, on 700c wheel, and 52 volts, with good tires/light bike. ( unless there were to become available a 260 rpm version )
Since bmsbattery is selling only the 201 and 328 Q100 c CST , ( you say 290 @ 36 , but, what is it at 48 volts , or 52 volts ? )
Who is selling a 290 or 260 rpm Q100c CST ?
I would think about a larger motor, however it has the penalty of being heaver, and more rotating mass, which means even more power needed,
so
The more rides I have on the Q100c CST , and the more these kinds of figures are being shown, the more I believe it is really best to use the Q100c CST motor ,
on very light weight bikes , 25 pounds and under , that also have other efficient parts as well like good bearings, good tires, etc. as well as a rider who is willing to put in some effort .
You see my 201 rpm , in a 650 b wheel with road / 42mm wide road tire on it, at 48 volts is very close to the speed the Simulator says for 48volt 20 amp , However
My 48 volt controller is limited to 14 amps +/- one amp ( that is what the sticker on it says ) , so I am using up to 15 amps, but getting closer to what the Simulator says for using 5 more ( 25% ) more amps.
Interesting,
So from my Real World Figures, the ebikes.ca simulator will not do calculation for under 20 amps, and when I try to see what a 52 volt battery would do , it is only showing a massive 20 amp hour 52 volt battery pack.
it would seem like the way to go for getting the max speed at best efficiency is 201 rpm Q100c CST, on 700c wheel, and 52 volts, with good tires/light bike. ( unless there were to become available a 260 rpm version )
Since bmsbattery is selling only the 201 and 328 Q100 c CST , ( you say 290 @ 36 , but, what is it at 48 volts , or 52 volts ? )
Who is selling a 290 or 260 rpm Q100c CST ?
I would think about a larger motor, however it has the penalty of being heaver, and more rotating mass, which means even more power needed,
so
The more rides I have on the Q100c CST , and the more these kinds of figures are being shown, the more I believe it is really best to use the Q100c CST motor ,
on very light weight bikes , 25 pounds and under , that also have other efficient parts as well like good bearings, good tires, etc. as well as a rider who is willing to put in some effort .
motomech said:
chas58
10 kW
Motomech makes a good point.
The Q100 328 rpm at 36volts is good for
About 22mph at 36v (77.5% efficiency)
about 24mph at 48v (77% efficiency)
The problem (as motomech alludes to) is that the 328 at 36v wants to be doing 26-27mph, not 22mph (or 35mph at 48v) so unless you can make up the power with a second motor (front hub or your legs), you are bogging the motor down, and it may not be happy for too long. As Moto said, the controler is going to take the hit for this (the motor isn't going to get hot).
The 201 is good for ~16 mph at 76% efficiency, but it is on the downward slope of the efficiency curve, so the controller isn’t as stressed.
(For simulation, use the 328 motor at 16” wheel size to get the performance characteristics of the Q100 201 motor on a 26” (or 700c wheel))
A 328rpm Q100 is 328rpm no load, and is happiest at ~270rpm under load
A 260rpm Q100 is 260 rpm no load and is happiest at about 215rpm under load
A 201rpm Q100 is 201rpm with no load and is happiest at ~170rpm under load
All of these motors will be slower with a load. Not sure why one would call out the 328 for doing 290rpm? All of these are going to run ~15% slower under load.
the 290 is a fictitious number, the 328 and 201 numbers above are actual measured numbers from actual Q100 motors.
I run a 300 rpm Q100 at 23-24mph on a 26" tire mountain bike.
I run a 328rpm Q100 at 25-27mph on a 700c road bike (with an extra 200-300 watts from my legs).
Both motors are 36v. My controllers do overheat if stuck in a bag, but do not overheat and are happy in fresh air.
The Q100 328 rpm at 36volts is good for
About 22mph at 36v (77.5% efficiency)
about 24mph at 48v (77% efficiency)
The problem (as motomech alludes to) is that the 328 at 36v wants to be doing 26-27mph, not 22mph (or 35mph at 48v) so unless you can make up the power with a second motor (front hub or your legs), you are bogging the motor down, and it may not be happy for too long. As Moto said, the controler is going to take the hit for this (the motor isn't going to get hot).
The 201 is good for ~16 mph at 76% efficiency, but it is on the downward slope of the efficiency curve, so the controller isn’t as stressed.
(For simulation, use the 328 motor at 16” wheel size to get the performance characteristics of the Q100 201 motor on a 26” (or 700c wheel))
A 328rpm Q100 is 328rpm no load, and is happiest at ~270rpm under load
A 260rpm Q100 is 260 rpm no load and is happiest at about 215rpm under load
A 201rpm Q100 is 201rpm with no load and is happiest at ~170rpm under load
All of these motors will be slower with a load. Not sure why one would call out the 328 for doing 290rpm? All of these are going to run ~15% slower under load.
the 290 is a fictitious number, the 328 and 201 numbers above are actual measured numbers from actual Q100 motors.
I run a 300 rpm Q100 at 23-24mph on a 26" tire mountain bike.
I run a 328rpm Q100 at 25-27mph on a 700c road bike (with an extra 200-300 watts from my legs).
Both motors are 36v. My controllers do overheat if stuck in a bag, but do not overheat and are happy in fresh air.
chas58
10 kW
Allex said:
Scooter – that was an awesome reply to alex!
Thanks for sharing.
Short answer for alex:
BMS battery, elifebikes, greenbikekit sell the Q100
majornelson
100 W
Again, I'm a big fan of the Cute Q100. How do you request a 32 spoke hub vs. a 36 spoke? I've ordered all of my Q100's from greenbikekit... I *think* the standard is a 36 spoke hub but would prefer a 32 spoke hub for aesthetic reasons.
Lee
Lee
ScooterMan101
1 MW
When you go to the bmsbattery.com website, click the hover the / your keyboard mouse over ... Ebike Kit ,
then
Look down to where it says Motor,
then
Click on rear driving 36 volt,
then when on the page of rear driving 36 volt motors, look to the left side, under the Q128 motor ( the second motor down the page on the left )
you will then notice that the ...
Q100c CST under that says 32 hole rear. ( third down on the left )
and
the Q100c CST under the first Q100c CST does not say 32 hole, it has no mention of spoke holes, that would probably be the 36 hole one.
It first you might think they made a mistake and listed the Q100c CST twice,
But
The top Q100c CST is the one that has a 32 spoke hole flange.
So be sure to click on the first Q100c CST Rear driving motor , that also says 32 hole... " Q100C CST 36V350W 32-hole Rear Driving Hub Motor "
This should show it. https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/651-q100c-cst-36v350w-32-hole-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html#/213-rpm-201
If you are going to order from them, they have somewhere on the website, a controller/display/pas/brake levers , that have the newer, and cleaner looking " waterproof " Higo , connectors.
Click on Controllers, then click on sine wave, then the second one down that is $ 87 is the parts with the newer , Higo , connectors . ... https://bmsbattery.com/controller/698-sine-wave-controller-for-09-case-controller.html
You have the option of a 36 volt controller or 48 volt controller, they are strange looking, they are for if you make your own bottle battery, but can be used without I am sure.
then
Look down to where it says Motor,
then
Click on rear driving 36 volt,
then when on the page of rear driving 36 volt motors, look to the left side, under the Q128 motor ( the second motor down the page on the left )
you will then notice that the ...
Q100c CST under that says 32 hole rear. ( third down on the left )
and
the Q100c CST under the first Q100c CST does not say 32 hole, it has no mention of spoke holes, that would probably be the 36 hole one.
It first you might think they made a mistake and listed the Q100c CST twice,
But
The top Q100c CST is the one that has a 32 spoke hole flange.
So be sure to click on the first Q100c CST Rear driving motor , that also says 32 hole... " Q100C CST 36V350W 32-hole Rear Driving Hub Motor "
This should show it. https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/651-q100c-cst-36v350w-32-hole-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html#/213-rpm-201
If you are going to order from them, they have somewhere on the website, a controller/display/pas/brake levers , that have the newer, and cleaner looking " waterproof " Higo , connectors.
Click on Controllers, then click on sine wave, then the second one down that is $ 87 is the parts with the newer , Higo , connectors . ... https://bmsbattery.com/controller/698-sine-wave-controller-for-09-case-controller.html
You have the option of a 36 volt controller or 48 volt controller, they are strange looking, they are for if you make your own bottle battery, but can be used without I am sure.
majornelson said:
puregsr
100 W
I got the above setup.
201rpm rear Q100H laced into 700c locally, 09 battery controller sine 20a with 48V 13S. I get 22mph. Nothing exciting, but it's light enough for me to ride it like a regular bike.
Q100H rear motor 2.21 kg
Controller 0.246 kg
S-LCD3 0.168 kg
Throttle, PAS 0.08 kg
Brakes 0.230 kg
Cables 0.240 kg
Total 6.98 kg
201rpm rear Q100H laced into 700c locally, 09 battery controller sine 20a with 48V 13S. I get 22mph. Nothing exciting, but it's light enough for me to ride it like a regular bike.
Q100H rear motor 2.21 kg
Controller 0.246 kg
S-LCD3 0.168 kg
Throttle, PAS 0.08 kg
Brakes 0.230 kg
Cables 0.240 kg
Total 6.98 kg
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Allex, Hej,
From the Figures that Motomech, and Chas58 are writing / posting,
Motomech is posting figures for the Q100 motor at 36 and 48 volts, but I went to the grin calculator he went to and got the figures from, and it is calculating at running those voltages at ... 20 amps,
From what I have read about this little motor you should, Not , run it at 20 amps , I think it is somewhere around 17 amps ... Max , when on 36 volts, and I am fine with my 48 volt controller
only putting out 14 +/- 1 amp, in other words my controller puts out 13-15 amps max through the controller/motor, and that is giving me the 450-550 watts running at near max throttle , with spikes up to 650 watts for 2 to 3 seconds when taking off from a complete stop.
Since you want to go up to 40 kph , getting the 201 rpm motor as you can see from everyone is preferable for the reasons of not lugging it down / putting too much strain on the controller , And I would now somewhat agree,
since I do, not , have strong enough legs to put in another 100-200 watts with my legs,
and probably most people here do not put in that much with their legs either.
The Formula I would go to next, and you could try to begin with is ... 201 Rpm motor, with 48 volt controller, with 52 volt battery. ( 48 volt controllers can handle the extra few volts )
If you wanted to really experiment, I would like to , but do not have the money at this time, to try the 201 Rpm Q100c CST on 700c wheel , with a 60 volt controller and Battery pack. ( Adjusting the amps down to around 11-12 amps Max.
The numbers for a
201 Q100c CST , 700c Wheel, on 52 volts, 14-15 amps Max ,
and
201 Q100c CST , 700c wheel , on 60 volts, 11-12 amps Max,
Are the Figures I would really like to see, as that is about what many of us want for a speed range for road riding.
What are the Figures for the 2 above set ups ??
From the Figures that Motomech, and Chas58 are writing / posting,
Motomech is posting figures for the Q100 motor at 36 and 48 volts, but I went to the grin calculator he went to and got the figures from, and it is calculating at running those voltages at ... 20 amps,
From what I have read about this little motor you should, Not , run it at 20 amps , I think it is somewhere around 17 amps ... Max , when on 36 volts, and I am fine with my 48 volt controller
only putting out 14 +/- 1 amp, in other words my controller puts out 13-15 amps max through the controller/motor, and that is giving me the 450-550 watts running at near max throttle , with spikes up to 650 watts for 2 to 3 seconds when taking off from a complete stop.
Since you want to go up to 40 kph , getting the 201 rpm motor as you can see from everyone is preferable for the reasons of not lugging it down / putting too much strain on the controller , And I would now somewhat agree,
since I do, not , have strong enough legs to put in another 100-200 watts with my legs,
and probably most people here do not put in that much with their legs either.
The Formula I would go to next, and you could try to begin with is ... 201 Rpm motor, with 48 volt controller, with 52 volt battery. ( 48 volt controllers can handle the extra few volts )
If you wanted to really experiment, I would like to , but do not have the money at this time, to try the 201 Rpm Q100c CST on 700c wheel , with a 60 volt controller and Battery pack. ( Adjusting the amps down to around 11-12 amps Max.
The numbers for a
201 Q100c CST , 700c Wheel, on 52 volts, 14-15 amps Max ,
and
201 Q100c CST , 700c wheel , on 60 volts, 11-12 amps Max,
Are the Figures I would really like to see, as that is about what many of us want for a speed range for road riding.
What are the Figures for the 2 above set ups ??
Allex
100 MW
Hey!
Ordered a q100h 260rpm in 26" rim from bmsbatery. And a phaserunner controller from ebikes.ca. Really dont want to have 48V as it will be to heavy and big.
Now phaserunner have field weakening, wich means you can have greater speed at 36V compared to other controllers. Lets see how it goes. I will be running at 10-15A amps constant and 20 or a bit more during take off and take overs. Also I will be installing temp sensor along with a CA that way do risk to fry the motor. Thx for all the info, will get back once I have everything running.
Ordered a q100h 260rpm in 26" rim from bmsbatery. And a phaserunner controller from ebikes.ca. Really dont want to have 48V as it will be to heavy and big.
Now phaserunner have field weakening, wich means you can have greater speed at 36V compared to other controllers. Lets see how it goes. I will be running at 10-15A amps constant and 20 or a bit more during take off and take overs. Also I will be installing temp sensor along with a CA that way do risk to fry the motor. Thx for all the info, will get back once I have everything running.
chas58
10 kW
you can adjust the current iin the simulator to only use 14 amps if you wish. This will increase the power in the midrange of the motor. It will not change the no load speed of the motor, or the power of the motor in the upper ~20% of its speed range.
Keep in mind, a typcial 700c tire is about the same diameter as a typical 26" tire. In my case:
My 26” and 700c tires have basically the same diameter.
700x28 = 336mm radius
26x2.125 = 330mm radius
A Q100 is happier on a “bigger” 700c wheel. This is because most 700c wheels & tires are lighter and the bikes are lighter/faster/more-aero than 26” wheeled bikes (with a some obvious exceptions). So, with someone who is willing to pedal like his is on a bicycle, the fast q100s works slightly better on a 700c bike than on 26” wheel bike.
Scooter,
The Q100 is happiest in the low 20mph range (assuming it is the sole power for the bike). the power needed above that rises exponentially, and that is starting to get outside the operating envelope of the system.
By keeping the power the same, and increasing voltage and reducing current, you are spinning the wheel faster, but the motor will not have the power to increase the bike's speed. The effect is you are running the motor inefficiently and generating heat.
Put another way, running a 201rpm motor at 52volts will give you the same speed as running a 328rpm motor at 36 volts - if you keep the power the same by reducing current. Either way, you will have to add more power to get to the efficiency part of the power curve where the controler isn't struggling so much.
Keep in mind, a typcial 700c tire is about the same diameter as a typical 26" tire. In my case:
My 26” and 700c tires have basically the same diameter.
700x28 = 336mm radius
26x2.125 = 330mm radius
A Q100 is happier on a “bigger” 700c wheel. This is because most 700c wheels & tires are lighter and the bikes are lighter/faster/more-aero than 26” wheeled bikes (with a some obvious exceptions). So, with someone who is willing to pedal like his is on a bicycle, the fast q100s works slightly better on a 700c bike than on 26” wheel bike.
Scooter,
The Q100 is happiest in the low 20mph range (assuming it is the sole power for the bike). the power needed above that rises exponentially, and that is starting to get outside the operating envelope of the system.
By keeping the power the same, and increasing voltage and reducing current, you are spinning the wheel faster, but the motor will not have the power to increase the bike's speed. The effect is you are running the motor inefficiently and generating heat.
Put another way, running a 201rpm motor at 52volts will give you the same speed as running a 328rpm motor at 36 volts - if you keep the power the same by reducing current. Either way, you will have to add more power to get to the efficiency part of the power curve where the controler isn't struggling so much.
motomech
10 MW
Well, chas58 wrote;
http://www.bikeforums.net/electric-bikes/882856-small-geared-hub-motors-speeds-rpm-mph.html
Huh?
So, I have looked this "motor speed" dispute over and there seems to be confusion over the usage and meaning of the terms "No-load" and "Loaded". They seem to be used interchangeably and I myself have been guilty.
Our most trusted vendors/gurus spec. their motors @ LOADED RPM;
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=50_40&product_id=52
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/ezee-kits.html
This makes a lot of sense, for how relevant is how fast will a hub motor spin when the bike us upside down?
So all the most popular hub motors that are associated w/ a certain speed, The Ezee's, Mac's, BMC's etc. are advertized w/a Loaded rpm (usually @ 36 Volts).
As to what numbers members here at ES have measured for various versions of he Cute, I know of only one report. Russell said;
The 6.4 RPM/V number probably came from the long defunct Ecity Power site, yet Russell measured 230 RPM @ 36 Volts. This points out a problem that D8veh has talked about, the many variables when riders test no-load motor speeds. He wrote;
Now, if someone wants to post some definitive numbers here, fine. But, I'm starting to look at no-loads speeds as irrelevant.
What matters is loaded speeds which seem to be better established and give a better idea of real world performance, as long as one realizes the high speed mini in a 26" or 700cc wheel will become current limited, rather than RPM limited at it's loaded speed. What matters is the relationship between the speed ranges that are available for the Q100.
As for now, I think I will keep thinking about about Q100 speed ranges as per the industry norm, loaded. I will just make sure I identify the value, as well as the whl. size, Voltage AND Amperage applied.
