Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

[Bill Nye the science guy]

View attachment 1
and it took 2400 watts but I jumped off a curb onto a hill and snapped the carrier for the planetaries.

it was the stress on the keyway pushed it up out of the seat and put pressure on the carrier.

but the motor took a lot of abuse to cause this.

 

[d8veh]

I recently got a Xofo motor. It's a copy of the Bafang CST, and has the advantage of a cassette spline. I also have a 500w Bafang CST to compare it with.

It was very easy to fit, slotting straight in to my 135mm drop-outs, and of course the cassette spline makes the gearing easier to sort out with a 11T top gear.

The max speed is about 20.5mph on the road with a 36v battery, and it will comfortably reach 30mph at 64v. No-load speed was 34mph at 64v. The power is about the same as the Bafang using the same 30 amp controller, and its hill-climbing is about the same too, which is pretty good. I'd say that the Xofo is a bit quieter, and when you spin it, it free-wheels for longer than the Bafang.

Overall, it feels good, but I can't say whether the build quality is as good as the Bafang's because I haven't opened it yet.
Weight is 4.2kg.


Other side before I fitted a 180mm disk

 

[iperov]

is 1:5.54 maximal reduction hub on market ??

 

[SolarRay]

No. ∃ 12.

 

[docnjoj]

You can get 17:1 reduction with some of the Keyde roller motors.
otherDoc

 

[galvatron1]

What is the best 36v 250w geared hub motor currently on the market? From reading every single comment on this thread, bafang & ezee is highly regarded. What about the cute, can it handle hills on 100% assist mode?

 

[spinningmagnets]

More pics of the XOFO internals, thanks to WhatcomRider

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46608#p705884

 

[wojtek]

what is the most powerful geared hub? anything above 1000W?

MAC and BMC seem to be at 1000W but more would be nicer

 

[kimajy]

Bafang CST 500W motor

Approx 25.5 - 26mph no load speed @ 36V on KU123 (30A) controller

On-road speed 22-23mph on the flat. Good climber.

Internals

 

[beesandhoney]

BMC V4 Quality issues

Not sure if this is the best place for this post, but the best option I was able to find.

Everyone seem to be raving about how good the BMC motors are, I had the same opinion until the snow came... Since I live on the west coast of Sweden the winters are absolute rubbish with snow, slash, gravel and salt on the roads. I was biking home one day when the motor failed, it let of a strange sound right after spinning the wheel in the snow. I pedled back home - and realized how much a bike sucks without a motor .

Upon opening the Hub motor I saw some dirt and it was moist! The hubmotor did NOT have a seal of scilicone around the cover plate like what can be seen on various videos and photos on the web. - Immediatly I thought that was what caused the issue, after cleaning with alchohol and drying it up I tested again - same issue. Took it apart again, put the oscillosope on and tested the three phases as well as the hall sensors - all good... Took out the whole motor and realized that the stator was moving a bit (+/- 3 mm) as you can see in the video. Turns out that the little metal thing that stops the stator from spinning on the axle had too much play (probably due to wear).
The motor runs fine whenever the magnets are positioned correctly, but when the stator moves the will align poorly an just cause the motor to buzz loud and then the controller will cut out.
The motor was running with 1000 W ( short burst of 1400 W) so I am really surpriced to see that it failed so quick (2000 k) or roughly 1 year. No warranty from BMC there...

I have had golden motors front hub motor before and although BMC feels like overall better quality it does have a weak spots that makes it unreliable. So do tink twice before bying a BMC hub motor - I know I won't buy one again.

 

[d8veh]

I've just been testing the Xiongda 2-speed hub-motor. It works perfectly, though a little noisy. As far as I can figure out without opening it, it changes speed by reversing direction. It's fully automatic. It cuts the power for half a second to change gear. I'm very impressed by the way they pulled that off. It works much better with 12S lipos, and can go up a 14% hill without pedalling and with a total weight of about 130kg. It's about 150mm wide with a seven speed DNP free-wheel on it, so I had to stretch the frame a bit to fit it in. Weight is 3.3kg, and it's the same size as a Bafang QSWXK5

Compared to a Q100:




Controller looks pretty normal, and is about as small as they come:


I wrote a bit more about it on Pedelecs forum:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/xiongda-two-speed-motor.17219/

 

[d8veh]

MXUS have a new small hub-motor. It has six internal gears rather than the normal three. I tried a prototype, which was nice and smooth, but at only 15 amps, it wasn't any more powerful than a Bafang SWX, and it's about the same size. I don't know about how much power can be pushed through it, but they said that the gears could handle more torque than the previous design. The designations are XF09F, XF09R and XF09C (rear cassette version).

 

[neptronix]

d8veh, what do you mean by 6 internal gears?
You mean two sets of planetaries for reduction?

http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=439

conhismotor has a motor that looks a bit similar to that one; it's a little heavier, but according to the power graph, it looks like it can take about 400w continuous or so with good efficiency. One could maintain 18-20mph on the flats by pedaling.

So far, i am most impressed with the outrider motor for it's weight to power ratio.. the Q128H next ( yes, there is a dyno graph on bmsbattery's page now )

 

[d8veh]

d8veh, what do you mean by 6 internal gears?
You mean two sets of planetaries for reduction?

http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=439

conhismotor has a motor that looks a bit similar to that one; it's a little heavier, but according to the power graph, it looks like it can take about 400w continuous or so with good efficiency. One could maintain 18-20mph on the flats by pedaling.

So far, i am most impressed with the outrider motor for it's weight to power ratio.. the Q128H next ( yes, there is a dyno graph on bmsbattery's page now )

Unfortunately, they didn't explain any more than to say it had six planetary gears. I can only guess what that means. I had the idea in my head that they used six smaller gears on the clutch instead of three larger ones.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Just found out the eZee geared hub that Justin @ Grin tech /ebikes.ca has been selling has a 17mm wide stator (same width as the common Bafang-BPM), and all the new eZee geared hubs have the thinner 0.35mm thick laminations (instead of the common 0.50mm), which will allow it to be run at higher RPMs without concern for eddy current heating. 36V and 48V were common, now it should run well up to 72V.

http://www.ebikes.ca/news/eZee-Kits-Black-Stronger-Gears-Higher-Efficiency/

http://www.ebikes.ca/news/eZee-Kit-Updates/

 

[Paladin]

Here is the current conhismotor offering.
Looks like a XOFO XF-V(K).
Thread-into hub style free hub body.
Looks similar to the XOFO d8veh posted above. Visually, minus torque sensor.

Stator diameter= 114mm
Stator width= 21mm
Lamination thickness= .5mm

 

[Paladin]

Couple pics of the above stator.

 

[d8veh]

That's probably a Xofo motor stocked by Conhismotor. It could also be a MXUS XF01A because they have XF designation in their motor numbers. They both make a clone of the Bafang CST

 

[docnjoj]

I've just been testing the Xiongda 2-speed hub-motor. It works perfectly, though a little noisy. As far as I can figure out without opening it, it changes speed by reversing direction. It's fully automatic. It cuts the power for half a second to change gear. I'm very impressed by the way they pulled that off. It works much better with 12S lipos, and can go up a 14% hill without pedalling and with a total weight of about 130kg. It's about 150mm wide with a seven speed DNP free-wheel on it, so I had to stretch the frame a bit to fit it in. Weight is 3.3kg, and it's the same size as a Bafang QSWXK5

Compared to a Q100:




Controller looks pretty normal, and is about as small as they come:


I wrote a bit more about it on Pedelecs forum:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/xiongda-two-speed-motor.17219/

I have just about finished rebuilding my 2 speed Xiongda after catastrophic gear failure after about 500 miles. Apparently this is not usual, as I have seen no other reports of gear failure. Yona of Xiongda sent me a rebuild kit, together with grease that looks like plumbing caulk. Very fast 5 day service and a company that actually cares. I'll post in the 2 speed motor thread as I get back on the road this weekend. I really like this motor!
otherDoc

 

[d8veh]

I now have the latest version of the Xiongda motor with a KT sinewave controller. It's more or less totally silent even quieter than a direct drive. I did 1000 miles on it in January, and loved every minute.

 

[docnjoj]

I now have the latest version of the Xiongda motor with a KT sinewave controller. It's more or less totally silent even quieter than a direct drive. I did 1000 miles on it in January, and loved every minute.

My rebuild is going to be quite problematic since I had to drill out some of the soft SS screws holding the ring gear in place. I think I am just going to order another new one (just the motor) and see if it holds up better. 500 miles per motor is not great. I will finish the rebuild this week and test it with the older controller in case I screwed it up. One of my problems (my fault) was nicking the wire bundle when using the puller. I think it will be OK but if it shorts it may take out the controller,so it is lucky I have the original KT. Xiongda did send their newest KT at no charge which works much better and has very accurate shift patterns. Quiet too.
I really like this motor, but reliability is also important. Stay tuned.
otherDoc

 

[spinningmagnets]

Pics of a dis-assembled Bafang SYXD-01F from the Faraday ebike. Once I find out more info on its stator size, I will add it to the index at the beginning. It is a small geared hub, and has a dual reduction, similar to the Q100H.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74910

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Bafang SWXO2 from the Storm/Sondors

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66220&p=1131102#p1131100

 

[peleap]

best topic

 

[d8veh]

There's new tiny motors from Xiongda. Front and rear versions weigh 1.4 kg. I've ordered a pair for testing. More details to follow. If you can't wait, you can email Xiongda directly bonnie@xiongdamotor.com.cn

 

[mechhead]

I may have found another version of the bafang bpm that claims 0.35mm lams and curved magnets on alibaba unless they are lying, here is the link anyway I'm currently communicating with the seller about getting one sent to australia for conversion on my FS bike, I was looking at an rc drive but this modification of a hub to mid drive (crossbreak style) is so much simpler.

here is the alibaba link https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Greenpedel-48V-500w-BPM-brushless-geared_60716275952.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.2.396c049j33pPo

They include pics of their motor internals on the page.

another thought I had is about the failure of the nylon gears, I suspect this is likely from high power levels being applied when the nylon is too hot. Have any of you played with the replacement steel gears that are available ?