Sunder
10 MW
Jasonv8z said:
Great, thanks. I'm still keen, but ordering anything right before Christmas is probably not a great idea.
I'll try to PM you in the new year. Thanks for doing this.
Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations
- Thread starter Jasonv8z
- Start date
Great, thanks. I'm still keen, but ordering anything right before Christmas is probably not a great idea.
I'll try to PM you in the new year. Thanks for doing this.
Alex W
10 W
Are you still only doing rear motors? I'm interested in a 330rpm front. The Q100 is available in this, but the Q100H doesn't appear to be.
It seems like you are using the increased lamination count to get higher torque for the same weight (unless I misunderstood, which is likely). It would also be interesting to see the same torque for reduced weight.
My goal is in making high performance e-bikes for fit cyclists. This means taking a rider who's normal riding speed is ~18mph and allowing them to go ~25mph using the e-assist. It doesn't require high power (your concern of putting 500 watts into a front motor) because the cyclist is still doing half or more of the work. It does require a motor that can handle high RPMs.
It seems like you are using the increased lamination count to get higher torque for the same weight (unless I misunderstood, which is likely). It would also be interesting to see the same torque for reduced weight.
My goal is in making high performance e-bikes for fit cyclists. This means taking a rider who's normal riding speed is ~18mph and allowing them to go ~25mph using the e-assist. It doesn't require high power (your concern of putting 500 watts into a front motor) because the cyclist is still doing half or more of the work. It does require a motor that can handle high RPMs.
Alex W
10 W
It would also be awesome to get these in 32 hole instead of 36 hole. There aren't good 36 hole 700C disk rims being made, but there are tons and tons and tons of 32 hole options.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Edited.
cwah
100 MW
Alex W said:
Can't you lace 32 holes rim to 36 holes hub?
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Somewhere I saw a quote by Sheldon Brown saying, " Don't even ask me about trying to use a 32 hole hub on a 36 hole rim , just buy a 32 hole Rim ! "
Alex W
10 W
cwah said:
Not in any reasonable way. It would take a mix of spoke lengths and a lot of annoyance.
Alex W
10 W
ScooterMan101 said:
Thanks for the info. That's disappointing to hear, the problems that through axles solve don't really help with e-bike motors. I could build the third fork for my e-bike to use through-axle dropouts, but that's getting kind of silly.
It would be great to see more and better options for lightweight/high-performance e-bikes. The Bafang SYX is pretty good but could be geared higher (or I could switch to 48V batteries, but that adds more unnecessary weight). I'll guess I'll give the Q100 328rpm motor a try to compare it.
Does the Q100 use the same plug as the Q75? If so that is compatible with the Bafang SYX plug, which makes life easier.
scoobydrew
1 mW
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
- Messages
- 17
Hi all,
Absolute noob here so probably don't know what I'm on about but here's my two penny's worth... (Apologies in advance if wrong thing said or I upset anyone).
Strong riders who can hold 18mph may not be that interested in ebiking on a significant commercial scale to make ultra light weight ebikes viable. Anyone who needs to maintain 25mph is likely to be a commuter looking to minimise travel time, in which case minor weight penalties of a Q128H or similar are likely to be less significant than looks, practicality, cost, availability etc.
I'm all for light weight, stealthy ebikes as they offer the rider the best of both worlds - similar handling and feel to a normal bike but more power to make things easier. If it was my money, I'd look for something more like the commuter booster... A light bike but with plenty of power from a higher volt controller and battery combo.
Sorry to butt in but find the thread interesting.
Thanks
Absolute noob here so probably don't know what I'm on about but here's my two penny's worth... (Apologies in advance if wrong thing said or I upset anyone).
Strong riders who can hold 18mph may not be that interested in ebiking on a significant commercial scale to make ultra light weight ebikes viable. Anyone who needs to maintain 25mph is likely to be a commuter looking to minimise travel time, in which case minor weight penalties of a Q128H or similar are likely to be less significant than looks, practicality, cost, availability etc.
I'm all for light weight, stealthy ebikes as they offer the rider the best of both worlds - similar handling and feel to a normal bike but more power to make things easier. If it was my money, I'd look for something more like the commuter booster... A light bike but with plenty of power from a higher volt controller and battery combo.
Sorry to butt in but find the thread interesting.
Thanks
Alex W
10 W
Boosting my commute speed is exactly how I use my e-bike. It makes it possible to get around the city about as fast as a car does, and that allows me to use my e-bike instead of the car for doing stuff after work. I only ride the e-bike when I need to get somewhere faster (like making 5:30 boat call for sailboat racing on a weeknight) or during the occasional trip where I need to arrive sweat-free (like riding in a suit to a wedding). I've been commuting by bike for 20 years.
The Commuter Booster (which is a tire-tread driven motor) is a useless product in Seattle. We have damp roads for much of the year and commuter bikes here use full fenders. It also isn't much lighter than a lightweight geared hub motor.
The Bafang/8Fun SYX is a very good hub, just geared a little too low.
The Commuter Booster (which is a tire-tread driven motor) is a useless product in Seattle. We have damp roads for much of the year and commuter bikes here use full fenders. It also isn't much lighter than a lightweight geared hub motor.
The Bafang/8Fun SYX is a very good hub, just geared a little too low.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Alex,
Looks like Jason , is going to concentrate on the H model of the Q 100. ( Q100H )
Looks like Jason , is going to concentrate on the H model of the Q 100. ( Q100H )
Mikebergy
1 W
Sorry to jump in, but is another order being made? I'm getting ready to order motors (front and rear) and would be interested in getting one with the freehub and a standard spacing for a road bike dropout. I want to mount it on my crossbike. 700c. PM me if an order is going to be made. Also, if one were able to order a few bare stators, that would be cool.
Jasonv8z
1 W
Alex W said:
I'll order front motors for those who are interested. I'll also order everything but the 200RPM in 32H as that seems to be the consensus choice. As far as weight savings, there's only 100 - 200 grams between a smaller 135mm CST and more powerful H versions. Personally, I would take the extra power of an H version.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
One more thing to consider for wheel weight between the Q100 cst and the Q100 H
Q100 H 150-160 grams heaver than the Q100 cst
Sunrace 9 speed Freewheel 11-32 tooth , Good Quality 590 Grams
Sram PG 970 9 speed Cassette 11-34 tooth , Good Quality 413 Grams
= 177 Grams heaver for a freewheel,
+ apx 155 Grams heaver for the H motor
= 332g heaver total weight for the higher torque H motor/freewheel.
On a hard tail , riding on the road, I would not be bothered too much, but I wonder how handling in technical single track trails on a full suspension MTB , would do compared to a hub almost a pound lighter ?
Q100 H 150-160 grams heaver than the Q100 cst
Sunrace 9 speed Freewheel 11-32 tooth , Good Quality 590 Grams
Sram PG 970 9 speed Cassette 11-34 tooth , Good Quality 413 Grams
= 177 Grams heaver for a freewheel,
+ apx 155 Grams heaver for the H motor
= 332g heaver total weight for the higher torque H motor/freewheel.
On a hard tail , riding on the road, I would not be bothered too much, but I wonder how handling in technical single track trails on a full suspension MTB , would do compared to a hub almost a pound lighter ?
Attachments
cwah
100 MW
what sine wave controller do you use on this motor for 48V? on bmsbattery there r only the bottle type but i don't need battery
Jasonv8z
1 W
The problem with a cassette is that it will reduce the motor length by almost 10mm. This is because the ratcheting mechanism has been moved from inside the gear cluster to inside the freehub body. Doing so also carries a weight penalty:
117g saved from the lighter freewheel cover means a net gain of ~60g for a freewheel. There's also extra weight in the Q100H motor over the CST, but to many it would be a worthwhile tradeoff: something like 200g more weight for 30% more power. The housing, clutch, gears, axle, and bearings etc weigh the same. This project is a bit like swapping a big engine into a small car. Sure you gain a few pounds, but the added power offsets the small weight gain. I'd like to quantify what this will do to motor torque/power, but I've been behind on building the motors into wheels and building a bike dyno, and I feel there are more important things to work on.
At this point, I'm just going to place an order and have you guys give feedback. The way I look at it, it's going to cost the same as standard Q100H but be better. and we'll have a front wheel option as well.
117g saved from the lighter freewheel cover means a net gain of ~60g for a freewheel. There's also extra weight in the Q100H motor over the CST, but to many it would be a worthwhile tradeoff: something like 200g more weight for 30% more power. The housing, clutch, gears, axle, and bearings etc weigh the same. This project is a bit like swapping a big engine into a small car. Sure you gain a few pounds, but the added power offsets the small weight gain. I'd like to quantify what this will do to motor torque/power, but I've been behind on building the motors into wheels and building a bike dyno, and I feel there are more important things to work on.
At this point, I'm just going to place an order and have you guys give feedback. The way I look at it, it's going to cost the same as standard Q100H but be better. and we'll have a front wheel option as well.
Mikebergy
1 W
Are you ordering q100 and q128 front and rear or just one of the models? Could you PM me with what you are planning on ordering? I am very interested in a matching front and rear for my cross bike. Thanks - Michael
I'd gladly take the freehub version and gain that 60 grams, in exchange for more stator width.
Rear 36 hole Q128 without the two gear reductions at ~300rpm on 36v would be a dream. I'd buy one. PM me if you have one for sale in the future.
A small package 500-600W continuous motor like that would be awesome.
Rear 36 hole Q128 without the two gear reductions at ~300rpm on 36v would be a dream. I'd buy one. PM me if you have one for sale in the future.
A small package 500-600W continuous motor like that would be awesome.
tomjasz
1 GW
neptronix said:
Rear 36 hole Q128 without the two gear reductions at ~300rpm on 36v?
Add me!
cwah
100 MW
What's wrong with 2 gear reduction?
Jasonv8z
1 W
scoobydrew said:
My bike started with RC components: a 6374 with a chain reduction. It was under 30 lbs, could do 33 mph and put out 1500w. It was fun, but I was never happy with the lack of water and dirt protection from the RC motor (destroyed the bearings after 2 years), or the high RPM noise. Controllers were also a problem.
For my next build, I decided to try these small hub motors and see how much power I could get out of them. My current bike uses just a ~500W controller, but I actually find it more fun than the RC setup. IT doesn't have the same acceleration or hill climbing ability as my old bike, but it's quiet, there's no fear of blowing something up, and top speed is close. With the RC setup, I got the feeling I was just along for the ride, because pedaling made practically no difference at all with such a powerful motor.. With a current limited hub motor, I notice a significant increase in speed if I pedal hard, which makes it more fun.
Jasonv8z
1 W
Some good news: I've asked about making the clutch stronger and I'm told the new clutch will be made 100% stronger due to extra hardening of the steel and increasing the clutch thickness.
Not so good news: Because I'm ordering a small amount of motors, they're only willing to ship by air, which will raise price somewhat. That being said, I should be able to sell them around $120/motor. Shipping stateside will be around $20 depending on where you live.
With that, I'd like to place an order. I'm proposing a lineup of
Q100H 32H Front 330 RPM
Q100H 32H Rear 200, 330 RPM (freewheel only)
Q128H Cassette 36H 200 RPM (0.5mm laminations only. sorry
)
Is there anything else you guys would like to see?
Not so good news: Because I'm ordering a small amount of motors, they're only willing to ship by air, which will raise price somewhat. That being said, I should be able to sell them around $120/motor. Shipping stateside will be around $20 depending on where you live.
With that, I'd like to place an order. I'm proposing a lineup of
Q100H 32H Front 330 RPM
Q100H 32H Rear 200, 330 RPM (freewheel only)
Q128H Cassette 36H 200 RPM (0.5mm laminations only. sorry
)Is there anything else you guys would like to see?
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Yes !
A 260 RPM version, along with the 201's and 328's
A 260 RPM version, along with the 201's and 328's
Jasonv8z said:
cwah
100 MW
I'd like to order:
- 2 rear Q100H 330RPM
- 1 front Q100H 330 RPM
- Associated sine wave controller with throttle at 48V 20A ? (or more if it can handle more with reliability)
- 2X spare gears
All delivered in the UK. I suppose it would be sent directly from China rather than US first then here? And total for few items would be cheaper than only 1? Maybe few other guys in europe would want the motor
- 2 rear Q100H 330RPM
- 1 front Q100H 330 RPM
- Associated sine wave controller with throttle at 48V 20A ? (or more if it can handle more with reliability)
- 2X spare gears
All delivered in the UK. I suppose it would be sent directly from China rather than US first then here? And total for few items would be cheaper than only 1? Maybe few other guys in europe would want the motor
Jasonv8z
1 W
Sorry, but I can only help you with motors and motor parts at this time. I've been looking into motor controllers but that is another topic.
Cwah, will ask about drop shipping. I think it could be done but I have always had to pay dearly in shipping for sample quantities.
Cwah, will ask about drop shipping. I think it could be done but I have always had to pay dearly in shipping for sample quantities.
