Q100C +48v +Carrera Crossfire 1

[RandomFactoid]

Hi,

I've written a post a couple months ago about moving to UK and needing a bike...with a view to converting to an ebike. So the day came

-Got a bike....CHECK (Carrera Crossfire 1)
-I sometimes start daydreaming while cycling "If only there was an acceleration button"....CHECK

So i'm about to purchase something...but.
-I'm in UK, so speed and power regulations apply (15mph...250w...but i could cycle faster than that myself). So i'd be willing to take a risk and have a faster than 15mph ebike but with as stealthy motor as possible. First thing that came to my mind was the Q100C CST from bmsbattery. I've read some bits of info that people run it at 48v...so i thought why not, if only it gives speed (hill climbing is not too important for now as London is flat).

Basically...if there are no more motor options (or are there any?), the only dillema left is the battery with remaining electronics.

Ideally i'd want an all-in-one solution (battery+controller)...so i could take it off when going to work and leaving the bike locked. Or a bottle type battery with some kind of loop so i could get my Abus cable+ulock through it. I doubt there's such a solution available.....or is it ?

As i would be ordering the Q100C from bmsbattery, I wouldn't mind if the battery came from the same place so I save on shipping.

I'd hate to mess up with my first ebike setup...so any help about the battery/controller setup is very much appreciated.

EDIT: or perhaps I should look for a frame-bag option that'd fit the battery and controller. However i'd like it to be portable (i'd guess 10-15k'ish mah).

Thanks

 

[999zip999]

Look em3 and put the three swith on 2 no.problem

 

[d8veh]

You can't really make the controller portable unless you want to mess about with a lot of connections. The Q100C is not a bad motor. 48v 15 amps with the 201 rpm version will give you 270 rpm,which should be OK if you''re not too heavy. the problem is where will you get a nice 15 amp 48v controller. A 36v controller can work with 12S lipos up to 50.4v, but not 48v, and lipos aren't portable anyway.

For the battery, I'd get a rack battery that ca be easily removed. Make tour own rack, so that you can get the battery as far forward and low as possible, and fit the plate to it.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/129-48v-10ah-lithium-ion-alloy-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html

BMBattery don't do a small 48v controller, so you have to get one from elsewhere. There's these two basic 48v controllers. I guess the PAS will be all or nothing, which is a bit of a bummer. Also, the Q100 needs a high-speed controller. Some aren't fast enough, but you won't know until you try it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMALL-SIZE-ELECTRIC-BIKE-CONTROLLER-SENSOR-AND-SENSORLESS-COMPATIBLE-/141279557356?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&var=&hash=item20e4eaf6ec
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36V-48V-350W-brushless-motor-controller-for-Electric-bike-bicycle-scooter-/390575533248?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5af01dacc0

DIY rack: 4 pieces of alloy tube from Wickes with the ends banged flat and holes drilled, and a piece of 3mm plywood bolted to it. You could use alloy or maybe even bolt that battery fixing plate directly to the tubes.

 

[RandomFactoid]

Thanks for the replies.

Wouldn't a KU63/65 controller work with Q100c+48v setup ? I'd just go with THIS BATTERY then. And bmsbattery has both 63/65 controllers even though they're labeled as 24/36v ones. I'm guessing i'd need to limit the current or whatever else ?

Thanks

 

[d8veh]

Thanks for the replies.

Wouldn't a KU63/65 controller work with Q100c+48v setup ? I'd just go with THIS BATTERY then. And bmsbattery has both 63/65 controllers even though they're labeled as 24/36v ones. I'm guessing i'd need to limit the current or whatever else ?

Thanks

The normal answer is no, but you can also say maybe. Some have done it successfully, some went pop after a month or so.

 

[cwah]

is there small size sine wave controllers?

 

[dogman dan]

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c3620-nc.html

Then add a CA, which you want anyway, and then set the amp limit to your liking.

Not a cheap solution, but a good one IMO.

 

[RandomFactoid]

Ouch....even though i guess those are very good choices (the controller and CA), I would like to get to that over time.

I'll just ask another way: People who used q100c with 48v...what controller did you use ?

 

[RandomFactoid]

Perhaps this will be useful for more people. Got this answer from EC member 'zukster' who's been using a similar setup for a while.

You just need to look at this thread re Cute 100 and BMSbattery KU63 controller

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59708

In case your not aware, there is a large range in pack voltage when you string LiPo together in Series.

For 1S Lipo cell, min 3.2v or so, average/nominal 3.7v, max 4.2v

I ran a 14S pack for over a year without problems. My son and friend are going on 2 years with 13S packs. The 15S almost works - read the above thread. The 13S pack is close to the 48v pack you are considering from BMSbattery. For LiPo a 13S pack voltage ranges from 3.2*13 = 41.6v to 4.2*13 = 54.6v . The average is 13*3.7 = 48.1v, thus people call it a 48v pack.

I used this battery for my son and his friend's bikes

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=47829

Conhis upgraded it to 8AH a couple of years ago. I don't know how long they'll last. One is 2 years old with occasional use and the other has had 8 months of 5 day a week use where the pack gets almost fully drained by the top of a big hill each time.

Please post this information in your thread for the benefit of others.

Oh - I just read your thread and the others make a good point re weight. Me and the bikes are less than 190 lbs but sometimes I pack 50 lbs of groceries up a hill. So if your looking at more than that, I don't know how well it will work.

But hey - the KU63 is 15 bucks, so you can buy half a dozen of them instead of Lyen's controller that does not work for 90

 

[RandomFactoid]

Every evening i do some research, i get more and more confused....going from 36v+250w to 48v, then back again, etc etc.

In the end I think i'll just go with a more simple version - 250w rear hub motor with a 36v bottle battery. What got me in a bit of confusion too is PAS.

Just some last questions before i make the purchase:

1. If i take q100cst+bottle battery (11.6ah with the integrated controller), will i be able to have a simple throttle as I don't really want any automatic assistance?

2. There are two controllers that can go into the bottle..either s06p or "s". The one that goes with the battery by default is s06p..which is square wave, sensorless. As i understand, sensored controllers make the start of the ride smoother. Should i be bothered about square/sine wave at all ? It also states smth about "torque simulation", etc.... But all i want is a motorcycle-like throttle.

3. The biggest 36v bottle battery on bmsbattery is 11.6ah and it comes with s06p. I'm facing a dilemma either to buy a full kit, which comes with 10.4ah battery and the s06p or bother going for the bigger battery and different controller, thus paying more for it.

4. Most importantly...I'd like to get the best speed to range ratio..so I was speculating that perhaps it's worth going for a higher rpm motor, other than 201 ? (700c wheels). Again..ones in kits are 201 rpm, so i'd have to purchase a faster wind motor separately. What speeds and ranges approximately would i get with different rpms and the 11.6ah battery setup ?

5. LED or LCD display?

Thanks for your patience...

 

[d8veh]

1. Yes
2. I tried the S06P with a Q100CST. It kept losing sync. Get a S06S.
3. Bigger battery is always better, especially as it's the same size and weight.
4. From 11.6aH with 201 rpm about 40 to 50 miles. From 328rpm, about 20 to 30 miles.
5. LCD. You don't understand the advantage of PAS. You will when you try it. 5 levels is better, plus you have speed indication etc.

For a Q100 in 26" wheels, the best power/speed/range comes from a 201 rpm one with 12S lipos. 201 rpm at 36v is a bit slow. 328 rpm is too high for its power, which makes it inefficient and it gets hot.

All these things depend on other factors. If you're light (under 75kg), you can use a 328 rpm one or go as high as 48v as long as you don't have long or steep hills. There's no exact answer to any of these things. Everything is a compromise. It's up to you to choose your balance of weight, power, range, speed, cost and complexity. When any one of those characteristics improves, some/most of the others go down.