QS13870HV3 > which Controller is better > EM-200-2 or EM260SGTP ?

[Jim Beagle]

I am planning an E conversion of a Suzuki RMZ 250 with a QS138 70H V3 motor and a 72V battery of capacity that is tbd

I have started looking on AliExpress for VOTOL controllers, but am seeing conflicting data ( no big surprise ),
so I tried to google at the source

what are you all using ???

Website ( all data at 72 volts )	Model	Weight	Rated	Boost	Peak	MaxPower	Flux Weak
Qima Technology	ECU-EM200	3800g	200 A	245 A	550 A	17640 W	300%
Qima Technology	EM-260	2030g	160 A	200 A	770 A	14400 W	200%
Votol EM 200 EM200SP 72V 550A 130KPH Programmable Controller	EM200SP	2860g	200 A	245 A	550 A	17640 W	300%
Votol EM200 2 SP 72V 600A 130KPH Controller	EM200 2 SP	2440g	200 A	250 A	600 A	18000 W	200%
Votol EM260 Programmable 72V 760A 160KPH Controller	EM260 SP	2700 g	190 A	450 A	760 A	13680 W	150%
DC Electric Motor Kit QS138 QSJ138D-90 and Votol EM 260 Kit	EM 260 SGTP	2050 g	250 A	500 A	600 A	36000 W	200%
QSMOTOR QSD138A-90 & EM200-2SP Kit - QS Motor QSMOTOR QSD138A-90 & EM200-2SP Kit	EM200-2SP	2440g	200 A	250 A	600 A	18000 W	200%

 

[E-Moto Tuner]

For comparison, Sondors Metacycle E-Moto used the EM200 2 SP with a 8kw motor (14.5 peak) and 4000 wh battery. Top speed of about 70mph, 300lbs weight.

 

[halg]

Hi Jim. I'm doing the same with a KLX400 (green DRZ400) donor bike. The bike is a bit of a plodder but it is what I have and the motor is bad.

I just ordered from siaecosys by contacting them directly since their packages on aliexpress did not really match what I was wanting.

I'm getting:
QS138 70H V3 with sproket
Votol EM260SGTP
DKD display
Z6 throttle
Wiring harness including DC converter

Above was around $900.

Seems like a pretty good deal based on my research so far. We shall see.

I'm not thrilled with the throttle or display based on the pictures but I figure it is a place to start and I can change that stuff up relatively inexpensively.

This is my first attempt at something like this so I'd be interested to see how yours works out.

After I get the motor in my current plan is a battery from amorge with a metal box if possible. I think sizing & fitting & mounting the battery will probably be the biggest challenge based on what I've read here and other places. Especially since the donor bike does not have a twin spar frame.

I must say, the lack of an authoritative list of models and specs on these Votol controllers is strange to me (S vs SGTP vs SP vs S-2, etc.). But, again this is the first time I've ordered anything straight from China so perhaps that is the norm.

Good luck with your build.

 

[iptwo]

the em260 works fine, but where im at, qsmotor is generally paired with fardriver. have fun with your build!

 

[Jim Beagle]

Hi Jim. I'm doing the same with a KLX400 (green DRZ400) donor bike. The bike is a bit of a plodder but it is what I have and the motor is bad.

I just ordered from siaecosys by contacting them directly since their packages on aliexpress did not really match what I was wanting.

I'm getting:
QS138 70H V3 with sproket
Votol EM260SGTP
DKD display
Z6 throttle
Wiring harness including DC converter

Above was around $900.

Seems like a pretty good deal based on my research so far. We shall see.

I'm not thrilled with the throttle or display based on the pictures but I figure it is a place to start and I can change that stuff up relatively inexpensively.

This is my first attempt at something like this so I'd be interested to see how yours works out.

After I get the motor in my current plan is a battery from amorge with a metal box if possible. I think sizing & fitting & mounting the battery will probably be the biggest challenge based on what I've read here and other places. Especially since the donor bike does not have a twin spar frame.

I must say, the lack of an authoritative list of models and specs on these Votol controllers is strange to me (S vs SGTP vs SP vs S-2, etc.). But, again this is the first time I've ordered anything straight from China so perhaps that is the norm.

Good luck with your build.

Hello Halg, have you received your motor,contoller,harness kit yet ? I have mine now, but I'm not quite sure I have all the connections paired correctly.....

.

 

[halg]

I have mine. But, I just tore the donor bike down last weekend and its been too cold here to work. Plus other hobbies and kids activities got me busy. Hope to resume next weekend. But, I am still waiting on a test battery so I don't really have anything to power it up with yet. So, unfortunately, I don't have any data for you yet on the wiring.

Did you get your motor, harness & controller from siaecosys? I did. And I am hoping the connections are pretty obvious and straightforward. Are you finding otherwise?

 

[Jim Beagle]

Halag. Yes my kit is also from SiaEcoSys, the harness has white labels on most of the connections, but some of the wire colors don't exactly match the harness drawing. My EM260 harness has no labels, but they did send me a wiring chart. Attached are the main two files that they messaged to me.

I'm also waiting on my "bench battery"
it's just a couple of more Lipo packs I needed to add in series to my RC airplane packs that I already had...... just to get 72v power,
the packs are small (1500mAh) not sure I can even spin the motor, but thought I could test all my hookups on the bench....

 

[bananu7]

To run the motor for testing I'm pretty sure that from the loom the only cables you need are throttle and enable. You should be able to switch the modes from the PC programming side.

 

[dominik h]

Just reduce battery current in the settings and then you can make a test run from nearly every battery.

I did my first test runs with a 3kW PSU, which is not the best idea when it comes to regenrative braking, as the PSU can not be charged and the voltage simple rises and rises. Not every Controller will survive such a scenario.
Be shure that your test battery is around 50-70%SOC and not near full

 

[halg]

Just reduce battery current in the settings and then you can make a test run from nearly every battery.

I did my first test runs with a 3kW PSU, which is not the best idea when it comes to regenrative braking, as the PSU can not be charged and the voltage simple rises and rises. Not every Controller will survive such a scenario.
Be shure that your test battery is around 50-70%SOC and not near full

This is true. In my case, I'm also wanting my test battery (20AH, 120/200 amp, EVE40p cells) to test real life performance. This is my first bike build. After reading for hours and running calculators and on and on, I decided I won't know for sure what my bike, riding my style will feel like at X amps and how long and far 1000 1 KWH will last. This way, when I build the real battery, I'll know more what cells I should target, how many KWH, etc.

There is lots of data from others (thanks to this forum and electriccycleriders.com) about riding motocross on a converted CRF250 or YZ250. But I'm not a motocross guy and my bike is one that not many people have converted. Or at least not a documented a conversion I could find.

The test battery was $500 so that is pretty significant to me. But, I figured it would come in handy in other ways as well. Plus I expect the final battery to be the most expensive and difficult part so I wanted to nail it as best I could. We shall see. I'll be sure to post my conclusions on whether that expense was worthwhile or not.

 

[Jim Beagle]

Votol EM260SGTP

The spec sheet says 72v, can I safely mate this controller with a 21S battery ?

 

[halg]

Votol EM260SGTP

The spec sheet says 72v, can I safely mate this controller with a 21S battery ?

I am not very experienced in this but I believe electro and co runs the em260 with 76 volts which I think is 21s EMX® 28kW Kit- QS138 70H V3.

According to @bunya you can also order a 96 volt version of that controller Better than the Stark Varg? 76v 90Ah 35kw Dirtbike Build. But, based on what I have read the 72v version is what most people are using.

However, I have not heard first hand from anyone running the EM260SGTP over 20S. I don't know exactly how much risk to the controller is added with a few extra volts. But, the few extra cells may not be worth the risk. If you do it please post your experience!

 

[bananu7]

I'm pretty sure it will survive 21s, but I'd also recommend going for a higher voltage version instead, if you want higher top speeds. The change of one extra series group is minuscule in comparison.

Remember that higher voltage systems don't really impact the low-speed torque of the motor, as they will get PWMd to acceptable phase currents anyway. They mostly reduce the currents on the battery-controller DC cabling and terminals.

 

[Jim Beagle]

I already have bought my EM260

The reason I am asking this question. I am nearly finalized with a 20S16P custom pack design with Amorge. It is a "three layer cake" 20S is 7 + 6 + 7

So I am thinking why not add a few more cells and make all three layers the same cell count...... 7+7+7

 

[halg]

I already have bought my EM260

The reason I am asking this question. I am nearly finalized with a 20S16P custom pack design with Amorge. It is a "three layer cake" 20S is 7 + 6 + 7

So I am thinking why not add a few more cells and make all three layers the same cell count...... 7+7+7

Wow 16P! Can't wait to see how it turns out.

When you finalize would you share the dimensions? It would be great if those dimensions also fit into my bike though I doubt it.

I'll leave it to people more experienced than myself to give a real answer but my guess is that it obviously doesn't hurt except that you won't be able to use standard chargers and so forth. With 16P you do increase your cell count enough to probably matter assuming amorge can fit those extra 16 cells in the box.

 

[bananu7]

I already have bought my EM260

The reason I am asking this question. I am nearly finalized with a 20S16P custom pack design with Amorge. It is a "three layer cake" 20S is 7 + 6 + 7

So I am thinking why not add a few more cells and make all three layers the same cell count...... 7+7+7

The extra missing group leaves a perfect space for a BMS, though.

 

[Jim Beagle]

I agree, that is a good idea

but in my configuration, I can grow the width from 230mm to 255mm no problem, (left to right side in the bike) and Amorge said they could place the BMS on the "side" of the pack.

My overall plan is to maximize the total number of cells, to give me the max range possible.....

 

[halg]

I agree, that is a good idea

but in my configuration, I can grow the width from 230mm to 255mm no problem, (left to right side in the bike) and Amorge said they could place the BMS on the "side" of the pack.

My overall plan is to maximize the total number of cells, to give me the max range possible.....

If max range is your goal you might ask Don if he thinks the samsung 50s cells will be able to provide enough amps without too much voltage drop for a battery of that size. At 16p they might be able to give you the performance of a 12p molicel p42a/p45b pack with the benefit of more energy density. I'm not experienced enough to give an opinion but I'm sure Don could give an experienced/educated opinion. Would keep the cost more reasonable than the molicels too. That seems like a lot of cells to me so I would think cell choice would affect the price significantly. Just a thought I had last night.

 

[Jim Beagle]

I am also leaning towards the Samsung 50S for my situation. This YT explains it.....

 

[Jim Beagle]

I sent this question to one of the VOTOL websites and received this response

Hello. I see that the EM260S GTSP is rated for 72v. (20S)
Am I able to safely run this controller at 21S ?
I have QS138 70Hv3 motor and planning a 20S16P or 21S16P battery ( Samsung 50S )

If the battery is Li-ion battery, then the rated voltage of each cell shall be 3.6V.
Rated voltage 3.6*21=75.6V
Peak voltage: 4.2*21=88.2V
Votol 72V controller could work no problem.
Best regards,
Jasmine-SIA&QS

 

[Jim Beagle]

Amorge said 21S builds are "against company policy"