QS205 3000w vs QS205 5000w

[Adrian_]

There are 7 different varations of 205 (more if you include the versions numbers, V1, V2, V3 plus varations of those for example V3I, V3TI ect, there's probably 30+ different combinations of 205)

But basically the highest power rated 205 is 205 50H V3 which is officially rated for 3000w with 6000w peak however those motors are known to be able to handle more power so sellers will often state 10,000w peak which is possible or they will get confused between peak and rated powers and say its "205 6000w" but the 6000w is actually peak not rated. Some sellers will often lie or the listings are made by people who have no clue about motors and they are just there to sell. For example this listing says in the title that it's 10,000w peak

but the same listing's description says 6000w peak


(They also made an error and put 6000kW which would indicate 6,000,000 watts )

I would personally not consider any "power ratings" that the sellers are stating unless the seller is QS. When you look at motors, look at the model number and compare it to this chart to know how much power the motor is rated for.


For example from my previous screenshot example, the motor is "205 V3TI 50H", using the chart, I know the motor is rated for 3000w or 80A-100A

As you said that you supposedly have "5000w" one, I would go back to the listing that you purchased it from and see if the exact model is stated, that will tell you what motor you have and how much power it can handle or contact the seller for that infomation. NBPower also often stamps their motors with useful information on the side cover for example as seen here:

NBP stands for "NBPower", "WP50H" states the magnet height, in this case 50, "210519" is the manufacturing date (yy/mm/dd), 1481 is just random sequence of numbers, it's a bit like a serial number and 3.5T states the winding count.

Version number is not stated but can still be figured out without any info, opening the motor and looking at the construction will give you the definitive answer but theres other ways to have a rough idea what version it might be for example V1 tyically comes with 1 set of hall sensors, if the motor has 2 then it's either V2 or V3.

 

[999zip999]

It would be good to weigh the two different motors.

 

[999zip999]

I like the 2,000w v3 for a mtb bike build as I love on the beach as I must keep it undercover and not have an electric motorcycle with pedals. Now shipping cost.

 

[biknut]

There are 7 different varations of 205 (more if you include the versions numbers, V1, V2, V3 plus varations of those for example V3I, V3TI ect, there's probably 30+ different combinations of 205)

But basically the highest power rated 205 is 205 50H V3 which is officially rated for 3000w with 6000w peak however those motors are known to be able to handle more power so sellers will often state 10,000w peak which is possible or they will get confused between peak and rated powers and say its "205 6000w" but the 6000w is actually peak not rated. Some sellers will often lie or the listings are made by people who have no clue about motors and they are just there to sell. For example this listing says in the title that it's 10,000w peak
View attachment 331754
but the same listing's description says 6000w peak

View attachment 331755
(They also made an error and put 6000kW which would indicate 6,000,000 watts )

I would personally not consider any "power ratings" that the sellers are stating unless the seller is QS. When you look at motors, look at the model number and compare it to this chart to know how much power the motor is rated for.
View attachment 331756

For example from my previous screenshot example, the motor is "205 V3TI 50H", using the chart, I know the motor is rated for 3000w or 80A-100A

As you said that you supposedly have "5000w" one, I would go back to the listing that you purchased it from and see if the exact model is stated, that will tell you what motor you have and how much power it can handle or contact the seller for that infomation. NBPower also often stamps their motors with useful information on the side cover for example as seen here:
View attachment 331757
NBP stands for "NBPower", "WP50H" states the magnet height, in this case 50, "210519" is the manufacturing date (yy/mm/dd), 1481 is just random sequence of numbers, it's a bit like a serial number and 3.5T states the winding count.

Version number is not stated but can still be figured out without any info, opening the motor and looking at the construction will give you the definitive answer but theres other ways to have a rough idea what version it might be for example V1 tyically comes with 1 set of hall sensors, if the motor has 2 then it's either V2 or V3.

Thank you Adrian, this is very illuminating information, and also pretty reassuring. As far as I'm concerned you've answered my question to my complete satisfaction. I think it's now safe to assume this is genuine QS205 motor, and it's the highest torque 3.5T 205 that QS makes. NBP should have just stoped at that, because that would have been enought for me.

From the add,
QS V3 5000W Motor Highest Torque Electric Bike hub Motor 10kw Peak Power,50H Magnet,High Speed 5000W V3 Motor
Color: 3.5T high speed

 

[biknut]

As per the QS chart that Adrian so kindly posted, it looks like NB Power was telling the truth. If you do the math, a 50H V3 motor is rated for 80-100 amp @ 72v, which works out to a minium of 5760w.

 

[999zip999]

Plus satorade. Cooling fins and vent holes in the side covers to let the heat out.
Does satorade still stay in the motor with holes cut in the side cover vents. It's magnetically attractive.

 

[999zip999]

I don't want the heavy 50mm is the 2,000 v3 45mm.is
it lighter like a mxus 3000 as that's as heavy as I want to go. I feel that QS had better quality.
70a ( ? ) What does that mean in the specs ?

 

[DogDipstick]

NP Power 5kW motor is half the motor a 3kW QS motor is. Weak, thin wire, thin shell, weaker axle, and ... doesnt compare to the real QS.

For instance, the NBP motor has... 3mm^2 wire for its phases. Claims 5kW. ..... the QS has 10mm ^2, ( three times larger) andit claims ..3kW.
.
I have had bothmotors in the garage Iam in now, and one is good, one is junk, one destroyed the other with similar 5000w controllers and identical batteries. left it in the dust.
They are nothing like each other. One is junk. One is good.

 

[biknut]

NP Power 5kW motor is half the motor a 3kW QS motor is. Weak, thin wire, thin shell, weaker axle, and ... doesnt compare to the real QS.

For instance, the NBP motor has... 3mm^2 wire for its phases. Claims 5kW. ..... the QS has 10mm ^2, ( three times larger) andit claims ..3kW.
.
I have had bothmotors in the garage Iam in now, and one is good, one is junk, one destroyed the other with similar 5000w controllers and identical batteries. left it in the dust.
They are nothing like each other. One is junk. One is good.

This is from the QS webb site. It says the 205 50H has a 6mm phase wire. That's what my motor has, two 3mm wires on each leg, so you at least got that part right. Just one 3mm wire is equal to 9g, so two of them is going to be way more than you would ever need.

Check it out.

qs-motor.com – QS205 3000W V3 E-Bike Moped Conversion kits

 

[DogDipstick]

This is from the QS webb site. It says the 205 50H has a 6mm phase wire. That's what my motor has, two 3mm wires on each leg, so you at least got that part right.

Check it out.

qs-motor.com – QS205 3000W V3 E-Bike Moped Conversion kits

That is not the QS site. That is a reseller. NOT a QS205 in that pic. Look for the Sia site.

Is it? Is it not? that is NOT a QS205? QS205 comes with an authenticity sticker and says " QSMOTOR " in big letter sacross the side.

THIS is the QS vs the clone NB power. Look at the stamped serial in this pic. Says "NBP5000" and has tiny phase wires.

And that says 6.5mm diameter. I said mm^2. I didnt say they were 6.5mm. Fact is, this "5000w" NBP motor has a third size wire of the QS I bought.. IDK what that means in mm squared or diameter with the pi r ^@ but I do know the QS "3kW" motors are very large compared. Over twice the size. IDK. What is what. but I can provide a pic, of the NB power wire, next to a QS wire. QS Sia site does list the mm^2. . The mm^2 is listed on the REAL SIA site.
i have the wires right here. Here you can see the QS sticker. Every motor I have bought form Sia has the sticker and the name on the face. Such as this.

QS Motor, QSMOTOR, 350W - 14kw High Power Electric Bike Scooter Motorcycle Tricycle Car Wheel Hub Motor leading manufacturers in China | Taizhou Quanshun Electric Drive Technology Co., Ltd. <<<< try this one . Where the real, unquestioned, not the pic i the ad but the real thing, and they are sold by Sia trading co.

Hey IDk. Just know what I have bought before and what i have gotten. IDK. Also,.... the side covers are different between all the QS motors vs the "NBPower 5kW" motor i received. The QS ones are flatter with a sharper curve.. the NBP motor is curved gently on the side cover radius.... Very different motors.


( 6.5 millimeter is the diameter of the LUG HOLE in the pic you linked too. Standard 1/4 inch lug. ) ( its not a " wire dimension")( just means it bolts up to a 1/4 inch post .) 6.5mm means the hole is = 0.255906 inch.. ie fits a 1/4 inch post / bolt/ hole. ( that is the LUG dimention, NOT the ... wire. ) .

You buy a motor from the site you linked, i doubt you will get a QS sticker. NOR will it say " QSMOTOR " across the face. IDK if you will get the fat, or thin.... wires.

....but if you buy from Sia, you get the fat wires.

THIS is where I buy my QS motor form. Arrives fast. 480$ shipped was what I paid. Came with the stickers int he right places, fat wires, and runs like a bat out of hell if you want it.

Sia Trading Co QSMOTOR Amazon :

https://www.amazon.com/QSMOTOR-bicycle-Dropout-Brushelss-Permanent/dp/B07CQVG8CG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LCWHW911ZWZS&keywords=qsmotor&qid=1679952974&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=qsmotor%2Csporting%2C107&sr=1-1&th=1

Now.. between these two bikes, one has the real QS motor.. and its a heavier bike, with LESS watts than the NBPower bike ( the red Super73) ( 4500w contin vs 5000w contin....) and identical batteries. Dead on identical.

Red bike is 85lbs. White bike is 104lbs. Both have ~ 5000w controllers and identical batteries.

The white bike blows the doors off the red bike, with less watts, and more weight, and the same battery. In acceleration,,.. and top speed.

 

[biknut]

THIS is where I buy my QS motor form. Arrives fast. 480$ shipped was what I paid. Came with the stickers int he right places, fat wires, and runs like a bat out of hell if you want it.

Sia Trading Co QSMOTOR Amazon :

https://www.amazon.com/QSMOTOR-bicycle-Dropout-Brushelss-Permanent/dp/B07CQVG8CG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LCWHW911ZWZS&keywords=qsmotor&qid=1679952974&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=qsmotor%2Csporting%2C107&sr=1-1&th=1

Well, I'm not convenced my motor is a clone, but you might be right. The Amazon link motor you posted is on the left, My amazon link motor is on the right. You link is a 5T motor, and mine is 3.5T. I can't really tell any difference in the size of the wires.

Just because mine says NBP doesn't prove it's a clone. I'm sure QS sells big lots of motors to other sellers that might prefer to have their own name on the motor, although in this case they weren't really trying to hide who made it. So far I haven't seen any convincing evidance that my motor isn't genuine, but I can think of a lot of reasons why it's probably is.

 

[gobi]

QS - neither denies nor acknowledges if they make these motors.

hmm, product liability is a serious thing in North America and Europe, trying to mislead consumer might land them in 3x damage territory.

Maybe we can open NBP motor up and compare with QS version of it.

 

[biknut]

QS - neither denies nor acknowledges if they make these motors.

hmm, product liability is a serious thing in North America and Europe, trying to mislead consumer might land them in 3x damage territory.

Maybe we can open NBP motor up and compare with QS version of it.

In china they probably don't bother with legality's, they just chop your head off and harvest your organs.

 

[DogDipstick]

Well, I'm not convenced my motor is a clone, but you might be right. The Amazon link motor you posted is on the left, My amazon link motor is on the right. You link is a 5T motor, and mine is 3.5T. I can't really tell any difference in the size of the wires.

Just because mine says NBP doesn't prove it's a clone. I'm sure QS sells big lots of motors to other sellers that might prefer to have their own name on the motor, although in this case they weren't really trying to hide who made it. So far I haven't seen any convincing evidance that my motor isn't genuine, but I can think of a lot of reasons why it's probably is.View attachment 331929

Yeah if you got fat wires, you seem to be good. Plus it does follow the QSMOTOR serial number system, serial with the julian date and whatnot... the motor you have.

IDk. Maybe I got the cheap motor (included with the "NB power 5kW kit"... laced to a rim). and they sell a few, and yeah Maybe QS does ... produce it. IDK.

 

[Adrian_]

For what it's worth, I have a friend who cooked his 273 V3 motor, it was from NBP and had NBP on side cover. He determined that it's much easier to buy another 273, take out the stator from it and swap it into his already laced hub rather than trying to rewind the cooked one so that's what he did, he bought this new hub from SIA instead of NBP because it was a bit cheaper and I helped him swap the stator, as far as I recall, the stator from SIA motor was excatly the same as the stator from NBP motor, excact same construction, meterials, wires and what not and was a direct drop in replacement. The only difference that I recall was that one had NBP on the side cover and the other QSMOTOR. It really looked like NBP just buys these motors from QS in bulk and has them etch NBP on the side cover which is not unsual, if you approched QS and was willing to buy few hundred motors, they would be willing to etch whatever you want on the side cover aswell.

This makes me think that this case with 205 is the same as the 273, I doubt that they would clone 205s but buy legit 273s from QS. It's also possible that your motor is V2 while the OP has V3 hence the wire thickness difference, the V2 is still "technically" a 5000w motor. I also don't recall NBP having any production facilities and they only distribute parts and assemble bikes so if they did sell or provide clone motors, they would be outsourcing it from someone else which at that point what's the point of outsourcing fake motors instead of the real ones.

Other thing, if you buy Sabvoton controllers from NBP, they are exact same as from SIA with the only difference being "NBP" on the sticker as seen here:

which is probably what is happening with the etching on NBP motors.

 

[999zip999]

I say weigh them and see if there's a difference in weight meaning copper weighs a lot. And it cost a little bit.

 

[ZeroEm]

Last time took a look at NB they were selling QS motors with their NB logos on them. Does not mean they don't buy clones and relabel them to NB also.

 

[biknut]

I say weigh them and see if there's a difference in weight meaning copper weighs a lot. And it cost a little bit.

When I weighed it with my bathroom scale I got 29 lbs. QS says 13.45 kgs = 29.65 lbs

 

[biknut]

Last time took a look at NB they were selling QS motors with their NB logos on them. Does not mean they don't buy clones and relabel them to NB also.

I'm sure that's true. Not all the motors NBP sells are claimed to be QS. This one looks like a no name motor with NBP serial numbers. I doubt NBP actually makes any motors, but they buy enough of them from different manufacturers to get their own labels, and serial numbers. IMO NBP seems perfectly legit.

 

[biknut]

For what it's worth, I have a friend who cooked his 273 V3 motor, it was from NBP and had NBP on side cover. He determined that it's much easier to buy another 273, take out the stator from it and swap it into his already laced hub rather than trying to rewind the cooked one so that's what he did, he bought this new hub from SIA instead of NBP because it was a bit cheaper and I helped him swap the stator, as far as I recall, the stator from SIA motor was excatly the same as the stator from NBP motor, excact same construction, meterials, wires and what not and was a direct drop in replacement. The only difference that I recall was that one had NBP on the side cover and the other QSMOTOR. It really looked like NBP just buys these motors from QS in bulk and has them etch NBP on the side cover which is not unsual, if you approched QS and was willing to buy few hundred motors, they would be willing to etch whatever you want on the side cover aswell.

This makes me think that this case with 205 is the same as the 273, I doubt that they would clone 205s but buy legit 273s from QS. It's also possible that your motor is V2 while the OP has V3 hence the wire thickness difference, the V2 is still "technically" a 5000w motor. I also don't recall NBP having any production facilities and they only distribute parts and assemble bikes so if they did sell or provide clone motors, they would be outsourcing it from someone else which at that point what's the point of outsourcing fake motors instead of the real ones.

Other thing, if you buy Sabvoton controllers from NBP, they are exact same as from SIA with the only difference being "NBP" on the sticker as seen here:
View attachment 331935
which is probably what is happening with the etching on NBP motors.

I agree with you completely, but I don't blame people for being suspicious. It's easy to get burned buying stuff from china.

 

[Adrian_]

I agree with you completely, but I don't blame people for being suspicious. It's easy to get burned buying stuff from china.

Everybody has the right to be suspicious when buying stuff from China especially when it comes to items advertised as genuine however there's currently no evidence that would indicate that NBP's motors are not genuine QS motors, someone even came out and said that QS authenticated and warrantied their NBP motor which is more than enough evidence for me. If NBP did not have their brand etched onto the motor by QS then we would probably not have this conversation right now, I'm pretty certain that's the only thing that makes people think that these motors are not legit.

 

[amberwolf]

I think the question begins not because of the logo, but because the power rating quoted for the motor is not the same as that given by the manufacturer. Inflation of specs is a common enough thing for sellers to do, but it can indicate the goods are not genuine, too (because unfortunately that's common, too). The question then comes up easily enough "If you can't trust the specs of an item, can you trust that it is genuine, as well?"

Certainly comes to my mind whenever I am looking at products of all sorts online.

 

[biknut]

I think the question begins not because of the logo, but because the power rating quoted for the motor is not the same as that given by the manufacturer. Inflation of specs is a common enough thing for sellers to do, but it can indicate the goods are not genuine, too

In this case NBP seems to be slightly understating the power according to the manufacturer chart assuming 72v. Forget about the 3000w, that seems meanless. 72v x 80 amps would be 5760w. NBP only claims 5000w. I can easily believe the power is understated because the chart lists 50 mph top speed, but my bike easily does 85 with 24" wheels. My motor should be the one at the bottom of the chart.

 

[999zip999]

With that chart I'm looking at that 2,000 watt 45mm v3 3t. Thinking it's a Superior mxus motor. But it's as big as the 50mm. Same side covers ect. So just ounces different. And 180.00 shipping and 220.00 or 400.00 to my door.. I was looking for a better quality mxus. At more of a price.
The shipping is the killer.
Has anyone gotten one of these motors.

 

[biknut]

With that chart I'm looking at that 2,000 watt 45mm v3 3t. Thinking it's a Superior mxus motor. But it's as big as the 50mm. Same side covers ect. So just ounces different. And 180.00 shipping and 220.00 or 400.00 to my door.. I was looking for a better quality mxus. At more of a price.
The shipping is the killer.
Has anyone gotten one of these motors.

Those prices listed are for samples, so that probably means wholesale. Retail will probably be at least double.