Lurkin
100 kW
As part of moving away from fossil fuel transport to human powered + e transport, we (the missus and I) have been using a cheapo nasty bike with a trailer fitted to obtain local groceries from local vendors. Its proven we really don't need a car anymore and I'm thinking of getting rid of the car for good. When the suns shining and I'm well slept, this is a great solution, but when its pissing down, freezing and I'm knackered from a long week, it kinda sucks. Further, sitting on a bike seat is about the last thing I want to do after spending ~2.5 hours a day on a bike and cheapo nasty bike is cheapo nasty bike. Sucky!
From what I can work out, its legal in Victoria to have a bicycle with multiple wheels with a 200w motor so long as the primary source of power is the human input. Meaning a velomobile with 4 wheels, a quadracycle, can be perfectly legal.
Part of the above plan is that we are not dependent on bike shops or mechanics of any kind to service our transport. So with all of the above information, it seems it would make sense to build a quadracycle to do shopping with on crappy days and perhaps to use for more distance in the weekend. The plan is to use 200w (pathetic yes, but with the attention this will get in Victoria, I don't want it to be illegal at all) and plenty of human power. The upshot of this is that it will have oodles of range.
So it needs to end up with the following attributes:
- must be legal
- must be made from affordable, easily available and simple to work with materials. Ideally obtainable from local hardware stores or similar. I cannot weld, which is a major issue with most of the designs I have found primarily relying on steel.
- four wheels, not three. I don't want a trike or tadpole and I think it will assist with carrying capacity in the rear.
- needs to be relatively enclosed/enclosable for days with nasty weather
- needs to capable of carrying groceries for two for a week
- It will use the same battery which will be used on both my Flux Beta and Q76R bikes to keep the e cost down.
- A fabric recumbent style comfy seat would be more ideal than a solid or bike like seat to be different and more comfortable.
Inspiration:
- Fantom's Nephew on youtube
- Eskimo's Velogatti on here/ his blog
- Kazumi Goto and Edgardo Lou's blog on their quad http://echuamano.blogspot.com.au/search/label/09%20LA%20BICICLETA
Thoughts so far:
I think it will end up looking pretty similar to Eskimo's Velogatti, preferably flat surfaced shell. This will lend well to adding solar panels at a later date. I really like the simplification of the Fantom Nephew as it was based on an Atomic Zombie plan (the streetfighter from the looks of it) which appears way to complex in the rear for my liking. I also really like the DIYness of Kazumi and Edgardo's quad and the idea of using readily available parts is also attractive. I think I will avoid suspension because it is more complex and use mostly wood for the chassis and exterior for simplicity's sake.
Debates:
- 20" vs 26". Both are pretty commonly available, but the rest of the fleet is being standardised to 26" wheels with 14g spokes. It would be ideal to keep with this theme because it would ensure spare wheel parts are always about in the garage.
- Whether to try and figure out a crank which will allow the drivetrain to be exterior of the vehicle. The advantage of this means it in the short term simplifies the interior and creates more room for humans/load and could allow for an enclosed oil bath or at least majority guard to run the chain in. The downside of this, is that the only way I can think of doing this currently is to use a bent piece of steel rod to attach to either chassis rail to replace the entire bike crank system (like this: https://thegokart.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/chapter-nine-dont-be-so-cranky/ ) I cant really see this working, fine for a kids kart, not sure if its strong enough to take an adults force on it.
- One seater only. We will end up with two carts eventually if this works well, but it will allow for two 200w motors (one per cart) rather than one cart, with two humans and only one 200w motor.
- Front hub/steering design. I'm leaning towards using using a full fork so that the axles are supported on both sides as done with the Velogatti. It looks much cleaner with using only one side, but I just cant fathom that its actually strong enough, especially with a lack of machining ability. The only challenge is that i have tried to get as many photos of possible of the Velogatti, but I still don't have a good/clear image of how the steering works in my head. Either way, I think I will just start collecting parts and figure it out eventually. This also affects the 20"/26" decision, as 26" might end up too tall for the front of the cart.
- whether it should be used on the road or not. Given it will be legal to, is it worth bothering to make it narrow enough for bike paths? I'm thinking it is, given bike paths are sooo much more peaceful and the speed of this think will just piss Australian motorists off.. which is a dangerous game to plan around Melbourne city.
- whether its worth trying to investigate <100w hub motors to use two driving the rear, or whether to go with a 200w and drive one side, or 200w and use as a middrive. The plan was to use a direct drive, conhismotors mini direct drive was the plan, so regen braking can be used. Just not really sure which is the best option.
From what I can work out, its legal in Victoria to have a bicycle with multiple wheels with a 200w motor so long as the primary source of power is the human input. Meaning a velomobile with 4 wheels, a quadracycle, can be perfectly legal.
Part of the above plan is that we are not dependent on bike shops or mechanics of any kind to service our transport. So with all of the above information, it seems it would make sense to build a quadracycle to do shopping with on crappy days and perhaps to use for more distance in the weekend. The plan is to use 200w (pathetic yes, but with the attention this will get in Victoria, I don't want it to be illegal at all) and plenty of human power. The upshot of this is that it will have oodles of range.
So it needs to end up with the following attributes:
- must be legal
- must be made from affordable, easily available and simple to work with materials. Ideally obtainable from local hardware stores or similar. I cannot weld, which is a major issue with most of the designs I have found primarily relying on steel.
- four wheels, not three. I don't want a trike or tadpole and I think it will assist with carrying capacity in the rear.
- needs to be relatively enclosed/enclosable for days with nasty weather
- needs to capable of carrying groceries for two for a week
- It will use the same battery which will be used on both my Flux Beta and Q76R bikes to keep the e cost down.
- A fabric recumbent style comfy seat would be more ideal than a solid or bike like seat to be different and more comfortable.
Inspiration:
- Fantom's Nephew on youtube
- Eskimo's Velogatti on here/ his blog
- Kazumi Goto and Edgardo Lou's blog on their quad http://echuamano.blogspot.com.au/search/label/09%20LA%20BICICLETA
Thoughts so far:
I think it will end up looking pretty similar to Eskimo's Velogatti, preferably flat surfaced shell. This will lend well to adding solar panels at a later date. I really like the simplification of the Fantom Nephew as it was based on an Atomic Zombie plan (the streetfighter from the looks of it) which appears way to complex in the rear for my liking. I also really like the DIYness of Kazumi and Edgardo's quad and the idea of using readily available parts is also attractive. I think I will avoid suspension because it is more complex and use mostly wood for the chassis and exterior for simplicity's sake.
Debates:
- 20" vs 26". Both are pretty commonly available, but the rest of the fleet is being standardised to 26" wheels with 14g spokes. It would be ideal to keep with this theme because it would ensure spare wheel parts are always about in the garage.
- Whether to try and figure out a crank which will allow the drivetrain to be exterior of the vehicle. The advantage of this means it in the short term simplifies the interior and creates more room for humans/load and could allow for an enclosed oil bath or at least majority guard to run the chain in. The downside of this, is that the only way I can think of doing this currently is to use a bent piece of steel rod to attach to either chassis rail to replace the entire bike crank system (like this: https://thegokart.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/chapter-nine-dont-be-so-cranky/ ) I cant really see this working, fine for a kids kart, not sure if its strong enough to take an adults force on it.
- One seater only. We will end up with two carts eventually if this works well, but it will allow for two 200w motors (one per cart) rather than one cart, with two humans and only one 200w motor.
- Front hub/steering design. I'm leaning towards using using a full fork so that the axles are supported on both sides as done with the Velogatti. It looks much cleaner with using only one side, but I just cant fathom that its actually strong enough, especially with a lack of machining ability. The only challenge is that i have tried to get as many photos of possible of the Velogatti, but I still don't have a good/clear image of how the steering works in my head. Either way, I think I will just start collecting parts and figure it out eventually. This also affects the 20"/26" decision, as 26" might end up too tall for the front of the cart.
- whether it should be used on the road or not. Given it will be legal to, is it worth bothering to make it narrow enough for bike paths? I'm thinking it is, given bike paths are sooo much more peaceful and the speed of this think will just piss Australian motorists off.. which is a dangerous game to plan around Melbourne city.
- whether its worth trying to investigate <100w hub motors to use two driving the rear, or whether to go with a 200w and drive one side, or 200w and use as a middrive. The plan was to use a direct drive, conhismotors mini direct drive was the plan, so regen braking can be used. Just not really sure which is the best option.
