Qulbix q76r vs EEB Enduro vs GT Aggressor detailed build

[felix991]

I did my best to outline the build story behind these bikes so sorry if is long and boring, if you just want to see the pretty pictures, skip down to the bottom. I already have a lot of this queued up but I still have more to add when I get time.

The purpose of this is for anyone wanting to build a bike to see some of the differences between the bike I’ve had for the last few years and the two new ones I built, one high end and one low end but surprisingly both came out with comparable results, so the question is, is it worth spending the extra money on everything to get the best? Read on down and find out.

I have been adding to this on and off for a few months now and I am really not done with my testing results and final opinions between the 3 because they each have their pros and cons but If I don’t go ahead and start posting what I have, I will get busy off on one my other projects and never get back around to this, so here is what I have so far...



The 2 on the left are the new “budget” builds and the one on the right is the older bike I have had now for a few years.

Actually, they were both fairly expensive if you’re on a budget, but I have been wanting a "Stealth" type bike ever since I built my first bike in 2014 so that is where I will start the story but it should be called expensive, even more expensive and really, really expensive.

I have been riding bikes since I was 4 and was riding 6 miles to school in 2nd grade. I grew up in the early 70's before the advent of the BMX bikes when we had the much cooler banana seat bikes with stick shifters and chopper front ends and as a kid we were always trying to hammer together something new to ride from the parts we drug home from the local junk yard.

Fast Forward to 2010 when I had to give up riding because my knees were shot and just couldn't take it any longer so a few years later being the electronic engineer I am now started following the development of all the new electric bikes coming to the market and my eye caught the newly released Stealth Bomber however there was no way I was going to pay 10 thousand plus for bicycle so I started reading the forms here at ES and getting ideas for my first build.

After much looking around and still not knowing much about what I was doing I decided to start with a GT Aggressor. I chose this bike because of the way the frame was built. It had a strong well-built frame along with a large opening for the battery pack, front and rear disc brakes and some decent size dropouts for a motor but no rear shock. I really wanted the full suspension, but that combination just does not exist for less than 250.00 that is. Most of the bikes with any type of rear shock system and you lose the battery space in the frame.


I ordered my first kit from a local shop here in Texas called Electric Rider. They were selling a 1500 Watt BMC hub motor kit with a 52V 20Amp hour battery for about 1200.00 (I think) which was way more than I anticipated spending but this guy was with in a 100 miles so I figured if something went wrong or he ripped me off I could always drive down there and confront them. The battery was most of the cost, and I way over ordered on this part. I could have done with half the size and less quality pack and still had a decent bike but I wanted range and range I did get when it was completed. So first word of advise. Do your math.






This bike went through several iterations after I first got it on the road. It was the most fun I had ever had but I really didn't like the way it looked and the front Suntour forks on those were absolutely crap after more endless nights on net I ran across a pair of Marzocchi forks on Ebay for 350.00 which was a steal. After that mod, I fabricated a new bracket for the controller and got it off the book rack, added a handlebar riser, a new seat, my own version of head lights which work pretty good BTW and finally came up with the product I have been riding for the past few years.

Used GT Agressor Bike 175.00
BMC/MAC V4 6T motor kit with the following 1200.00
1500 watt motor controller in a Alex DM32 rim
52V 20Amp lithium manganese battery pack with a 50amp rating (this was way over kill)
Cycle Analyst v3
Cr55 Marzocchi forks 350.00
DT 430 from rim with with 20mm hub Maxxis 2.2 Holly Roller 125.00
Rear Alex dm32 (included with kit) with Maxxis 2.3 Holly Roller 35.00
Plus, over the years I added a new seat, riser bar, pedals misc etc…

Top speed 31MPH on a fresh charge 28 average
Range 55 miles mostly city streets and trails no peddle
Avg Wh/Mi - Best case 13-14, Avg 15-18, Peddle to the Meddle 23
Total Price in all about 1600.00 in 2014-2015

Torque was phenomenal on this build, anything past half throttle at take-off and you were going to flip the bike. even still at 5-7mph rolling it would pull a wheelie and try to flip if you went WOT

I rode this bike all over the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex for 1800 miles until the planetary clutch gears finally gave out in the MAC which I did replace and get back on the road but it was time to start looking for the next bike. I had waited long enough.

 

[felix991]

After spending 6 months on the internet getting caught up on all the latest in ebike tech, It came down to two reasonable build candidates. The Qulbix 76r and the EEB Enduro (not sure that’s the correct name but I have seen it referenced a few times so for the purpose of this article that’s what I will call it) Both got my attention and both were reasonably priced however the 76r was clearly going to be the more expensive frame and after many nights of deliberation I had finally decided to go with the EEB and then almost one day later one of my friends showed up at random to catch up with things and we started talking bikes and after I showed him everything and he now decides he wants one too and that was enough to push me the other direction because he didn't want to spend very much money on his and I wanted to make the jump to the MXUS 3000 and 72 Volt battery so I made him a deal on my BMC/MAC and 52V battery for the EEB as my original plan to save money was to use the motor and battery pack out of my last build to get the new bike operational but now that he wanted a more in-expensive bike, I made him a deal on the older battery pack and BMC motor and ordered the q76r frame the next day.

So from this point forward I am outlining the research and purchases of parts for 2 bikes I am building simultaneously

When I ordered the frame, it was on sale however all the prices are listed in Euro which is misleading at first glance and then I had to have black and I thought I needed the controller shield and other than the rear shock bushings that is all I bought from Qulbix. All in all about 1100.00USD once I got out the door with shipping which was about 400 more than I had planned on spending.

So It was at this point I decided to say screw it and order all the rest of the parts I wanted instead of the ones I had planned on getting to save money. If I was going to spend a 1000.00 bucks on the frame I might as well spend the rest and get what I want although when I placed the order the next day at EM3EV for 350.00 flat on the EEB frame I started wondering if I had made the right decision.

So first order were at

Qulbix 76r Frame and shock bushing – Qulbix Direct - 850.00 + 105.00 in shipping + 40.00 freakin dollars to use paypal
EBE Enduro Frame – Em3Ev - 350.00 for the EEB + 75.00 shipped.

Next was the motor. After much debate back and forth and literally hundreds of hours reading articles on motors I finally decided on the 1500Watt DD Edge Motor from Electric Race Technologies out of California. I originally wanted the MXUS 3000 but I ended up choosing this motor mainly for weight and power savings. Many articles clearly demonstrated that it was capable of much much more than 1500watt and had no problem hitting 40mph+ on 48 volts. And to me after much reading the sweet spot on the motor, battery and controller is 60v, when you make the jump above that, everything else is heavier and gets more expensive and provided little power that I would never probably use. But then again, it’s my bike and other may have other uses they need the extra power for.

I went on ahead and had the motor laced in 19” moto rim. A 19” moto rim is actually about a 24inch bicycle rim and depending on what tire you put on it can wind up even being more. But I did photoshop mock ups and to me 24” is the perfect size for the Q76r frame. It’s not too small and it’s not too big.

For the Controller I used a beefed up 12 FET Sinewave Controller with the CA Interface I also purchased from ERT and at the same time I was looking for alternate controller I by chance ran across this listing in Aliexpress for similar 1500watt DD EDGE look alike motor from CycleBike.

For those of you not familiar with the EDGE motor goggle it or look for other posts here on ES. It is a very well built beefy motor with an Aluminum stator and very similar to the same 1500w that leafbike sales that seem to have become popular. They were actually my 2nd choice for motor if I could not get the EDGE. I am not sure why but the EDGE motor seems to be only sold in 2 places LABIKE and ERT and LABIKE was out of Stock and I believe still is however with NCycleBike they also have the option for lacing with the order which at the time was very important for me but since have learned how to lace myself.

So I went on head and gave this company a try. The price was right and they had 25 5 Star rating So if you're looking for a laced motor you might try these people. They sale 24, 26, 28, 700CC and 29 inch laced and they use the MTX39 rims which am a big fan of. They also have a moto wheel option and bunch of other ebike parts. You can read on down further for the ride review but this turned out to be a great motor and as far as I can tell from riding is equal to the EDGE in every way and for all I know it may be the EDGE under a different name.

Electric Race Technologies (ERT) 1500 watt DD EDGE Hub motor laced to a 19 inch moto rim with beefed up 60V 12 FET controller plus misc parts throttle etc… 617.00 (Shipping 50.00)
NCyclebike (Aliexpress) 1500 watt DD Hub motor laced to a 24 inch MTX39 rim with controller and misc parts throttle etc … 385.00 (free shipping)

Here is the link to the hub motor from Ncyclebike if anyone is interested. I give them 5 stars. Service was prompt, shipping was in 10 days to Texas and the packing looked CNC cut to match the parts.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Front-or-rear-motor-65km-h-48v-1500w-Electric-bike-conversion-kit-for-20-24-26/2214086_32684555943.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.63a92c25dx6NpF

Next up was the front wheel and as it so happens Ncyclebike also laces 24inch inch front rims in the MTX39 on a 20MM hub which is the way I was going with my builds. So I ordered the front rim laced from them as well with the back rim and motor.

But the front rim on the other bike needed to be a moto rim so I kept searching and then google turned up a link within ERT website that had the front 19 inch moto rim in a 20mm hub that didn’t show up on the web page when I ordered the motor the day before so I went on head and clicked to buy hoping they weren’t out of stock or something and that is why the store link was missing.

19 Inch front moto rim with a 20mm hub - Electric Race Technologies (ERT) – 175.00 + 22 for shipping
24 Inch bicycle MTX39 bicycle rim with a 20mm hub – NcycleBike (Aliexpress) - 124.00 – Free Shipping

For the forks I got really lucky, I have a bucket list of items I search for on ebay every week and som bitch I looked and someone had a pair of 2014 Marzocchi 888 bombers for sale used in perfect condition and I could not hit buy fast enough however there was something I didn’t think about when doing that. It was clear to me that these were going on 76r which left me still searching for a set for the EEB. I really didn’t want to pay 300-600+ or even 1500.00 for a set of Fox40’s when I was trying to keep the price down but this was an important item and affected not only the ride but the look and stance of the bike and in the end I decided to go ahead and take the bait and buy a pair of the Marzocchi 888 knockoff I kept seeing on Aliexpress and even Amazon. For those of you who have not seen them. Google Zoom 680 DH fork. They were only 125.00 so I figured if they exploded I would eat the cost and buy something else. The curiosity was killing me on how these performed. So I looked through the different vendors and finally picked one that looked reputable and bought it.

Anything I buy on AliExpress is just like gambling in Vegas. I prepare myself for just throwing away that money until I see it work and then I get happy.

Q76- 2014 Marzocchi 888 Forks – ebay – 450.00 – free shipping
EEB - Zoom 680 DH Forks – Aliexpress – 125.00 + 50.00 shipping

Brakes – I didn’t do much research here, I wanted hydraulic brakes with ebrake cutoff built in but there was just not that many choices on that so I went with the standard Shimano setup but again I wanted to see the difference in an 80 dollar set and a 180 dollar set when testing the bikes

Q76 - Shimano Deore XT M8000 Hydraulic Disk Brake Front & Rear 1000mm/1600mm – Amazon – 189.00
EEB - Shimano BR-BL-M355 Hydraulic Disc Bike Bicycle Brake Set Front & Rear – Amazon – 82.95

Rear Shock. Again, Continual ebay searches each day and I came across these. I think that Moto Cr2 lists for like 450.00 so this was a steal and I should have bought more because these no longer seem to be available and the one I have rides like a dream.

Q76 - NEW 2015 Marzocchi Moto C2R Prog Boost PB Coil Shock 267x89 10.5 x 3.5 - EBAY - 169.00
Q76 - J&L Titanium/Ti Coil Spring/Rear Shock for RockShox Vivid,Marzocchi MOTO C2R,DNM [350lbs* 3.5"] - EBAY – 108.00
EEB - DNM Mountain Downhill Bike Rear Shock 550 lbs 190mm - Amazon - 119.00


Tires for the 76r was a no brainer, I loved the way the Shinko's look and perform
Shinko 241 Dual Sport Front - Rear Tire - 2.75-19/Black wall- Amazon 35.00
Shinko 244 Dual Sport - Rear Tire - 2.75-19/Black wall- Amazon 35.00

Tires for the EEB was a little more hard to come by, I didn’t realize how few tires they make for 24" rims until I started looking but ended up finding these
Berm Master 24x3.0 - Front/Rear - Felt Bicycles - 24.00 each
Batteries - Originally I had planned to build one bike and use the battery pack from my old bike to get it going and then I changed to building two bikes and my old battery pack went to the EEB while my plan was to build a 16s16p battery pack with the Samsung 25r batteries, I ordered the JP spot tab welder from another member here at ES and was right in the middle of cutting a good deal on a shipment of 200 25r batteries when I came across an email from HobbyKing (I am in to drones to) offering a super deal on some 16000MAh 15.2v lipo packs and an idea just hit me like a rock. Why not use these? So I popped out the tape measure and the calculator and sure enough 4 packs fit perfect in the 76r frame giving me 68v at 16 Amps in series and with a constant 10C rating on these I should be able to romp on that EDGE motor. So I switched gears and ordered 4 of those and a bunch of XT90 connectors and very fine 8-10 gauge wire off amazon. I had most of the bike parts in and those would be here in 4-5 days and the build a battery pack was probably going to take 6 weeks. And they were cheap!

76r - Qty 4 16000Mah 15.2 Multistar Lipo total 68V 16AH - 260.00
EBE - 52V 20A Cell from previous bike - 0.00

Those were the majority of the parts for both bikes and trying to sort through the rest of the receipts trying to figure out which one when where is going to take me another year so I am just going to dump the listing out. I had no plans for the bikes and changed my mind about 200 times during the course of the builds. I basically printed a bunch of photos and diagrams and pasted them all over the wall to look at everyday at my computer desk and then when a thought would strike me I would jump on line and order parts on the fly. I ended up with way more parts than I needed because of changes or compatibility fitting issues because I didn’t research enough but end most of them were not expensive parts and now I have more to start another bike.

 

[felix991]

I am going to post what I was able to find as far as the parts lists I ordered to give the newbies an idea of just how many little things there are when building your own bike. I went though the order process for weeks and it seemed like every night while laying in bed I would think of yet one more part I still needed.

Parts List
=====================================================================================================================
76 Bicycle FRAME KIT Item# 76-fk-bicycle Controller Shield: Yes, add controller shield for Sabvoton.FK color options: Custom Color: All-black 76 FK Sticker Set (New 2017 Design!): Orange - Qulbix - Australia
Right Thumb Throttle (Type 1) Item# BUNDLE_WUX-R_TH1 - China
Throttle Connector Type - To Infineon Controller (1.5m) Item# THROTTLE-MOLEX - China
Gold 22mm 7/8" Bar Mirror Holder Mount Bicycle Motorcycle Dirtbike Scooter - ebay
2013/2014 Marzocchi 888 RC duble crown fork 200mm travel- Ebay
J&L Titanium/Ti Coil Spring/Rear Shock for RockShox Vivid,Marzocchi MOTO C2R,DNM [350lbs* 3.5"] - EBAY
Multistar High Capacity 16000mAh 4S 10C Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack XT90 Item# 912700012-0 -hobby King
CatEye Wheel Spoke Computer Magnet Speed bicycle fits Aero or Regular spoke bike - ebay
TWO 24x3 3.0 2.75 2.60 2.50 Duro Bike Tube Schrader Valve Chopper Cruiser - City Wheels
Bengal High Carbon Steel Stem Disc Brake Screws / Bolts M6 x 20mm 4 pcs - Red - ebay
Marzocchi 888 EVO Decal Set Item# 232553122302 - Europe postal mail
Sapim Strong 13-14g Butted Spoke, Silver Item# SP:SPCust14 - Grin Tech Canada
KMC X8.99 Bicycle Chain 1/2 x 3/32-Inch, 116L, Gold - Ebay
Crank Set Item# EEB_CRANK_ARM - EM3EV - China
Front Wheel, 20mm Axle, Sapim Spokes Item# 20MM_FRONT_WHEEL - EM3EV - China
20mm Axle, Front 36H Front Hub Item# 20MM_HUB - 20mm Axle, Front 36H Front Hub - EM3EV - China
Item# 20MM_HUB20mm Axle, Front 36H Front Hub Item# 20MM_HUB - EM3EV - China
FSA 39T 10sp. BCD: 130mm 5 Bolts Intrieur Chainring For Road triple Aluminum - Bells Bike Shop
CA3-DPS Item# CA:CA3-DPS - Grin tech Canada
CA3_Switch Item# CAP:CA3_Switch- Grin tech Canada
CA_SteerBracket Item# CAP:CA_SteerBracket- Grin tech Canada
CA3_Therm Item# CAP:CA3_Therm- Grin tech Canada
ChainTool Item# TL:ChainTool- Grin tech Canada
T-Lever Item# T-Lever-Short- Grin tech Canada
19"x 1.6 Front Moto Rim 20mm Hub - Electric Race Tech - California
Shimano SF-MX30 16T Freewheel for 1/2" x 3/32" Chain Single-Speed BMX Bike - Trail This Inc
C ycling Bicycle MTB Bike GUB CNC Anodised Single Crank Chain Ring Bolts New [Red] - Ebay
Redline Microline Crank Arm Set Square taper 110mm B.C.D Black [170mm] - Norco Cycles
Nukeproof Horizon Inline Seatpost Item# sku582531- Chain Reaction Cycles
RACE FACE ATLAS 0.5" HANDLEBAR (KASH MONEY) - Cycling Pros
19 & 21 INCH DIRT BIKE MOTOCROSS RIM PROTECTORS WHEEL DECALS TAPE GRAPHICS - MX Island
XLC Comp Alu A-Head Adjustable Bicycle Handlebar Stem New [Black,110mm Length, 31.8mm Handlebar] - Pure Digital
Steel Bike Bicycle Spoke Wrench 11G 12G 14G 15G Cycling Repair Tool [11g 12g] - China - Eby
Ultracycle Tool Bicycle Wheel Spoke Wrench Set of 3, 3.2 - 3.3 - 3.5 - Abaxo llc - Ebay
Tusk Spoke Wrench Kit Set Motorcycle Dirt Bike Spokes Motocross MX Dual Sport - UNIVERSAL POWERSPORTS LLC
Motion Pro Bead Buddy II Dirt Bike Motorcycle Tire Installation Assistance Tool - Fly-N-Cycle, Inc
Sinewave Controller Plug and Play Kit - 12 Fet Sinewave Controller w/ 3 Speed Switch - Electric Race Technologies
Yuauy Bike Chain Whip Sprocket Remover Wrench Bicycle Chain Flywheel Rotor Lockring Freewheel Removal Tools Kit - Amazon
BNTECHGO 10 Gauge Silicone Rubber Wire 10 feet [5 ft Black And 5 ft Red] 600V 200 deg C High Temperature Resistant Ultra Flexible 10 AWG Silicone Wire 1050 Strands of Tinned Copper Wire - Amazon
Venom Pro Quad 400 Watt (100W x 4) 7 Amp 4-Port AC/DC Multi-Chemistry LiPo, LiHV, NiMH Battery Balance Charger with Two 5V 2.3A USB Outputs with XT60, Deans, HXT, Tamyia, EC3, JST - AMAZON
Readytosky RC 2-8s Lipo Battery Tester Monitor Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm Voltage Checker with LED Indicator for Lipo LiFe LiMn Li-ion Battery(4PCS) - Amazon
2 of ARRIS 5 Pairs Amass XT90-S Anti-Spark Male Female Connector for Battery, ESC and Charger Lead - Amazon
Vktech 4.0mm Gold-plated Bullet Connector Battery ESC Plug,Set of 50 - Amazon
Shimano CT-S500L Alfine Vertical Chain Tensioner (Black) - Amazon
Foatg 620 PCS 2.5mm Pitch 2 3 4 5 6 Pin JST SM Male & Female Plug Housing Pin Header Crimp Terminals Connector Adapter Plug Assortment Kit- Amazon
SummerHome 400Pcs 2.8mm Pitch 2 3 4 6 Pin Male & Female Plug Housing and Male/female Pin Header Crimp Wire Terminals Connector Assortment Kit- Amazon
SummitLink 520 Pcs Assorted Heat Shrink Tube 5 Colors 10 Sizes Tubing Wrap Sleeve Set Combo- Amazon
Corki Quick Release Bicycle Seatpost Clamp Sandblasting Anodised Aluminum Alloy 31.8MM/34.9MM Black/Red/Blue KC89- Amazon
Heavy Duty Power Connectors Sb50 Housing Only Black - Bulk- Amazon
Wanyifa Titanium Ti M6 x 20mm Socket Allen Hex Bolt for Bicycle Disc Brake Caliper Adapter Mount Upgrade pack of 4 (Rainbow) - Amazon
1-1/8 inch Bicycle Headset Carbon Fiber Washer Set Bike Headset Stem Spacers Kit For Bike Fix Refit 3mm 5mm 10mm 15mm 20mm- Amazon
Senzeal 4x Aluminum Round Stripe Style Auto Car Truck Motocycle Bicycle Wheel Tyre Valve Caps Red- Amazon
MCTi Mountain MTB Bike Stem Titanium Allen Hex Socket Cap Head Bolts Screw M5x15mm 4 Packed Gold - Amazon
Ergon GP1 Grips, Large- Amazon
Minoura Handlebar Phone Grip (22-29mm) - Amazon
TTnight 5pcs Super Light 7075 T6 Alloy CNC Chain Ring Bolt Road MTB Disct Screws- Amazon
BIKEHAND Bike Bicycle Chain Quick Link Open Close Tool- Amazon
Control Tech MA5 0mm Offset Seatpost, 30.9 x 350mm, Red- Amazon
Men Women Bike Seat - DAWAY C99 Memory Foam Padded Leather Wide Bicycle Saddle Cushion with Taillight, Waterproof, Dual Spring Designed, - Amazon
3 Bearing Road Mountain Bike Platform Pedals Flat Sealed Lubricate Bearing Axle 9/16 Inch-Gold- Amazon
Universal 7/8'' Thumb Throttle Assembly For E-Bike Electric Bike Scooter 3 Wires- Amazon
MOWA CHS Road Mountain Bicycle 1 1/8-Inch Semi-Integrated Internal Bike Headset 44mm (Orange) - Amazon
ProTrax PT1038 Motorcycle Heavy Duty Inner Tube 3mm Thick 2.25-2.50 19” Front- Amazon
[14.5" Perfect Leverage]Dr.Roc Tire Spoon Lever Iron Tool Kit Motorcycle Bike Professional Tire Change Kit w/ Bag - 3 PCS- Amazon
Shinko 244 Dual Sport Front - Rear Tire - 2.75-19/Blackwall- Amazon
Shimano Deore XT M8000 Hydraulic Disk Brake MTB Front & Rear Set 1000mm/1600mm by JGbike@- Amazon
Shimano FC-M645 Zee 10 Speed Crankset (175-mm, 36T with 83-mm Bottom Bracket) - Amazon
MOWA Cyclocross Mtb Mountain Bicycle Cycling Bike Disc Brake Rotor Bolts Screws (Gold) - Amazon
Disc Brake Caliper Mount Adapter IS/POST Front 160/180/203mm Rear 140/160/180mm (F203R180) - Amazon
OUTERDO Cycling Bicycle Bike Brake Disc Rotors 120mm/140mm/160mm/180mm/203mm With Bolts 203mm- Amazon
MOWA Cyclocross Mtb Mountain Bicycle Cycling Bike Disc Brake Rotor Bolts Screws (Red) - Amazon

Now while all that seem like an astronomical list. A number of those parts were 2 dollars, 4 dollars, 75 cents, or yes 350.00, 675.00 Over all about 2200.00 in parts

And this list is not complete. There are still many things missing off of here just looking down it but most are minor items like nuts, bolts, fastener, connectors, cables, wiring, etc…

 

[felix991]

All in all the parts came in a lot faster than I expected and a few didn’t come as expected.

The Qulbix 76r frame was the first part I ordered and the 2nd to last part I received. Total time from factory to Texas, USA was almost 2 months but I selected to have the frame painted black they noted that was a custom order. The 2nd part I ordered was the EDGE Hub motor controller kit laced in the 19" moto rim from ERT and I ended up having to threaten him with a paypal investigation if he didn’t send me my stuff. For weeks he kept saying: yep it's on the bench, going out today. I am not really sure what Alan Hu has going on over there at ERT but it's not running his company that is for sure.

So Between the time I ordered the frame and rear motor for the 76r, ALL of the other parts came in for the EEB. The EEB frame from Em3ev was here in 5 days from China, as well as the front and rear rims and motor for the EEB which were from Ncyclebike also somewhere in china. So I give them an A+ for the fasted deliver only beating out Amazon. Their parts were also the best packed.

The EEB Frame and motor, tires and rims all came in boxes that were like CNC cut for those parts and very heavy duty packing I was very impressed. The Qulbix gram came in a big random box with a bunch of stuffing from what looked like 10 different other orders all just crammed in there to keep parts from moving around and the same went for the rims and motor form ERT. The packing was used packing already shipped else ware, the parts were bulging out of the box split in several areas but luckily all the parts made it here un-damaged.






So I started the exact opposite of where I wanted to but all of the parts for the EEB were on the floor and anticipation was just about killing me so I started on the EEB first and to my surprise had it mostly put together and working in one hard weekend Fri night -Sun night


Although there were no instructions, the EEB frame and parts went together surprisingly well and after I took it back apart a few times to turn a few parts over or put them in forwards instead of backwards, I had a rolling bike in 2 days’ worth of weekend work. At this time, I still had the stock Ncycle controller and while all the rest of the parts from NCycle looked built fairly well, I could tell the controller was a simple basic 48volt controller available most anywhere for 30-40 bucks and would not handle the power I had planned on putting into it but I didn’t have the batteries yet either so I opted to pull the 52V 20A pack out of my other older bike and see if everything worked.





This was day one freshly completed EEB bike. All in all the combination of the cheap controller and 52v pack didn’t operate that bad. It did not have the takeoff speed I was used to but would get up to 30-35mph fairly quickly. I made a test run around the block and then pulled it back in to check the heat on all the wires and make sure I was not over amping anything. All seemed good so I went for 10 mile ride which lasted about 1 mile before I realized the steering was off, the brakes were off and one of the peddles fell completely off. So after returning back to the house and tightening and adjusting everything plus realizing that most of the nuts and bolts on the whole bike were only finger tight when I left. Moral of that story is: Don’t get excited and forget to finish the bike and double check everything.


At this point the EEB was mostly operational and I took it on several rides over the next week without a hitch. The other beefed up 60V controller I ordered for the EEB to replace the cheap one showed up and I wired it in. Note to builders: make sure your order a boxload of XT90 connectors, the heavy duty 4mm bullet connectors, a misc box kit with all the pins and connectors for JST type plugs 2pin through 8pin and all the necessary 10guage down to 22 guage wire for interfacing all the different interfaces. You will need them.


Almost every controller, motor, battery part, throttle, the CA etc… ALL had the wrong ends on them requiring me to change all of them out to be compatible. Be aware of that and save yourself some time by pre-ordering a box of assorted jst crimpon connectors and a crimp tool so you can make your own ends.

To get the bike on the road, I was still short a front tire for the EEB so I had to steal one from my old bike until I finally got this one in. I made the mistake of ordering 24” rims which are the perfect size too me for a bike but finding fatter tires is a real bitch on the internet however I did finally receive this one that was on back order which looks a whole lot better and yes I hate the red seat. I was going for a color theme and thought that would look nice but I later replaced that as well too.



Over the next few weeks I rode the EEB all over the place and for just throwing the bike together they way I did, it actually rode fairly nice however the controller that came with the 1500 watt DD kit just was not going to cut it. It had plenty of top end but absolutely no power for take off compared to my old MAC motor I was used to. I figured this was mostly dur to the fact that the controller was only rated for 30amps and to be honest it wasn’t that much bigger than a couple of packs of smokes taped together but the beefed up programmable 60V 60AMP 4110 KB controller from westcoastelectrics put some fire in this bike, now my weak link was tripping the 50amp breaker on the old battery pack from the GT Aggressor build. Still though, watching the throttle and paying attention I was able to keep away from this most of the rides and a few week later figured out how to re-program the controller so I just went in and made a config for switch setting 1 (this controller has an external 1,2,3 switch for selecting different pre-programmed settings on the fly) that limited the controller to 48 amps in switch 1 and the breaker problem went away. I still need a better batter or … If I added another 52v20amp pack in parallel I could pull 48 from each simultaneously and have a 40amp range but I really needed to put in a 60v if I had my wishes, I could tell this motor was not struggling at all with power I was running and would take way more. In all my riding I never even managed to get it past outdoor temperature.

The rest of the parts for the q76r started showing up FINALLY. I cannot believe they were the first I ordered and the last to show up by almost 6-8 weeks. I do not know what Alan over at ERT had going on but I had to go as far as to threaten him with PayPal and bank dispute to get him to ship my freakin parts. As far as I can tell he is a one man show and is never in the office. But I really wanted that EDGE motor and he was the only person that seem to have any left, but he finally shipped and I got the motor, rear wheel and front wheel.

The first BIG problem I ran into was not paying attention to what I ordered. The super great deal I got on those Marzocchi 888 just came to a screaming halt when I went to mount them on the 76r and found out that the steering tube had been cut too short by the previous owner to fit in the q76r frame.

I called around for days looking for someone to fix this and did get one hit out of Germany from a shop that quoted 250.00 and I had to send them the forks and it might be 3-4 months for return so I put my thinking hat on and came up with this grand idea.





I picked up a piece of solid stock 7075 T6 1 inch round stock aluminum and turned it down on a friend of mines lathe. I turned it until it was just snug enough to have to pound into to the old steering tube with a little force and then I backed it up by also threading the bottom with a 5/16 hole about 3 inches deep so after I pounded it in, I could install a big washer and a 5/16 bolt up through the bottom of the fork head to pull the pieces tight together and keep them that way with some red locktite.



The solution was solid and perfect and so far I have over 500 miles on them with zero movement.

 

[felix991]

These motorcycle tires were the biggest pain in the f**king ass to mount. There was a lot of cussing and bloody knuckles doing this and when I got the rear one all mounted and installed on the bike, It popped about 2am in the morning all on it’s own. So I had to do it all over again. After examination, the rubber in the tube was rotting from I guess sitting on the shelve to long and it split at the seam half way around the inside of the tire and I of course bought a back up but after seeing what that one did, I didn’t want to install the spare either and have that one pop doing 40 down the road so off I went to the cycle chop looking for tire tube for a YZ125 TTL.





Again, I still have not even got to the battery making part yet, so I stole the battery pack out of the EEB that I had stole out of the old Aggressor.



The old batter had a old style Anderson connector so I made a adapter cable from Anderson to XT90

For the controller connectors I used XT90 connectors and 10 gauge fine strand silicone wire and a lot of solder.
The q76r frame is what it states. 76mm wide and that is just enough to get a 18650 in there sideways with a little room to spare on each end for wiring so here is what the 52V20amp pack looks like in the frame. That pack has a 126 batteries in it so I figure I can get around 300 total if needed when I make my battery.

The EEB frame is almost the same size but double the width at 140mm so you could theoretically put I guess up to 600 batteries in that frame but for now, switching the battery back and forth will have to do.

I researched several batteries, but I want one that will do 75 amp continuous discharge and most do not go that high that are for sale on the retail sites. This current one has a 50amp digital breaker and I trip it constantly if I am not careful on full acceleration.

This here photo was day one complete before 1st ride.



This bike far exceeded my expectations as riding this it is like a dream. It feels solid, stable,no road vibration and I lucked out with the rear shock ordering a 375lb spring as it sucks up the dips and bumps with ease.

The rear shock it hit or miss for me. I ordered a DNM Burner 550lb for the EEB and it is way too soft. Just sitting on the bike sags it 4-5 inches and dips almost bottom it out. Yet the 375 JL Titanium I put on the 76r sits firm and does not sag until you hit a good dip. So either they are lying about the numbers or the whole fulcrum leverage thing is coming in to play here and creating that much of a difference. The 888’s I got off eBay work perfect. I was afraid they would be bad or something but setup on both and the weight makes this bike handle and feel like a real motorcycle.

On my old Aggressor. It was already getting scary at 30mph. On this bike 40mph is no problem and glides along with ease. That’s mostly in part because of the weight. This bike topped out at 109lbs on the scale but it feels morel ike riding a motorcycle than a bike.



I don’t have just a really good spot to test top speed with getting on a highway and probably getting busted so this far my top speed is 46.3 MPH and before I ran out of room it still felt like it had another 10 miles an hour left to go before it hit max maybe even more. I can tell you that it gets really scary at that speed and you really start wondering about all the little nuts and bolts that might be coming lose or the tires exploding which they probably wont but I have come off a motorcycle at 55 on to hard pavement wearing nothing but shoes and shorts in my earlier years and I have no want to repeat that experience again so for now 46 is fast enough. This was on the 76r, the EEB tops out at about 40 before tripping the breaker on the battery pack but I can say there is a pretty big difference In the two at this speed. I don’t think I would want to go faster than 40 on those bike tires on the EEB. It feels unstable at that speed should a bump or pot hole pop up in the path.

 

[felix991]

Time to test the suspension















I have way to many projects going on so It took me forever to post these, so during the time from start, to here, I have put over 500 miles on the q76r and almost 300 on the EEB. I still have not built a battery for either one yet as planned instead a temporary solution sorta fell in place fell into place. One day I saw a flyer go buy for some big lipo packs a hobby king and it hit me. Why not use those? They had the 42.2 16amp packs on sell for 53.00 each so I bought 4 of them and wired them all in in series to get 65v 16amp battery pack.


Wow, what a difference that made. I can pull all the amps I want out of these without hesitation although at current I still do not have a easy way to charge them other than to pull the batteries and charge them the old way. So for the majority of the rides I have taken over the past several months I have been running the lipo packs in the q76r and the old 52v20a in the EEB still promising myself every day I am going to order the battery to build my own new packs for each.
I did manage to acquire the battery tab welder that runs off a car battery from one of the other members here though and I also bought a roll of nickel tape so really all I need is a few hundred 18650’s

 

[felix991]

That brings us to the end of the story for tonight. In my next post I will discuss the final costs, pro's and con's of each bike. As you can probably tell by the photo count posted. The 76r is my favorite and I get stopped by someone almost every time I ride it wanting to know where I got it but... There are some reasons or occasions I should say, why this might not be the best bike depending on what you want.

I had originally planed to build this new one (76r) and sell the other two now I want to keep all three of them. but either which way that comes out I still built all three of these for a little more than half the cost of a top of the line stealth which more than makes me happy.

 

[Antenor]

Great information

Looking forward for the next episode

Can you compare your first bmc with the dd hubs in terms of torque and aceleration?

Thank you an advance

 

[Wolfeman]

Beautiful bikes Felix. I only have one bike, if I had three I'd never get out of the garage. I'd just stand around admiring them. Nice post with great pics, thanks for posting.

 

[felix991]

Great information

Looking forward for the next episode

Can you compare your first bmc with the dd hubs in terms of torque and aceleration?

Thank you an advance

I actually have 3 of the BMC Hub motors and I used to love them the best but after running this EDGE 1500, It is now my new favorite. But no, it does not quite have the torque the BMC/MAC does. I am running my BMC at 52v/30a and that is probably what keeps burning up the planetary gears. It is just not made to take that much power. Geared drives need to stay in the 250-1000 watt range but back to your question. The BMC is 1st off the line however it looses speed pretty quick so in a race between the two which I have done with a friend. He may take me in the 1st 20-30 yards but after that I can smoke him. Those EDGE motors can take a LOT of amps. A lot more than I am even using. If you were to bump it up to a 72v80 or 100 amp controller I would bet the DD would win all around because it's not too far behind as it is. My controller maxes out at 60 volts and 60 amps and that is almost exactly what my CA says I am pulling when I go full throttle.

THere is a lot of info on these motors out there and if you read, its really not about the volts on these but the amps. So getting to 72 or even higher does not really make these motors go any faster so I am reading. its having a controller that can push 80-120 amps is what really gets these moving.

I went with the smaller controller because #1, it's all I really need and #2 it is much smaller than one of the 3000 watt plus true sine wave controllers like the sabvoton are huge. plus they waste lot of power. when I get around to it I was going to post useage stats but on my controller for example and it's really not fair because of the weight difference but I am getting ~15Wh on my bike frame with the BMC and on the 76r with the EDGE I am getting ~35Wh per mile. Thats a huge difference. And If I romp on it alot my average goes to ~43.

On my controller it has a selectable 3 way switch which in the controller I have programmed for 50% power 75% and 100% and 90 percent of the time I ride on 50% power setting. It still goes plenty fast and if I need to goose it across an intersection or something I can flip it to max for a minute and then back to 50% I have found that in doing this, I save a lot of battery power.

On my 12 mile regular ride path I do every day. I went one day at 100% power but just biking normally not speeding or anything, and the next day at 50% power. Both rides felt evenly the same but one used 3 more AH than the other. So having all that extra power available for the most part just gets burned up with out any noticeable difference in ride. I can do 0-30 on 50% which is more than enough for most of my rides.

I got way off track, but to answer your question final. It really depend on the bike, If you have a lightweight bike and never want to go over 30mph then the BMC but if you have a heavier frame like these then the DD is the way to go. I do not have a DD in a bike frame yet. They are almost twice the weight too. I hope that shredded some light feel free to ask anymore if that was not clear or you want more info.

 

[L3chef]

In my next post I will discuss the final costs, pro's and con's of each bike.

Please update. I had to make an account just to ask you this
Dying to know the pro's / con's and final cost.
Also how different are the Marzocchi 888 vs knockoff's?

 

[Antenor]

Thank you for the feedback.

And uphill? Thus the bmc with less amp climb as well as the edge with more amps?

 

[felix991]

Thank you for all the kind comments and likes, I really didn't think that there would be very much interest here because it is just another ebike post. But I have had several direct messages as wells as a bunch of others that know me from some other forums emailing me or DMing direct from there as well, so I will try and make more time to answer all the questions I just wish there was more time in a day.

I shouldn't be writing anything here that's not already written all over ES and most members probably already know but I was once new to all of this as well and at one time it was all very confusing.

Most the questions that have been asked really come down to power. Two of the most common types of hub motors are geared and gear less or more commonly DD (Direct Drive)




There is a fairly good write up of both in the following 2 links

MAC vs BMC
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22103

The Edge 1500 watt hub motor
http://www.electricbike.com/edge-1500w/

People keep asking me the same question that is probably harder to answer than is there life after death. Which one is right motor for me? So I will do my best to outline why I chose the two motors I use and the difference between them.

Unless your working with unlimited battery power in my opinion as all of this is. The geared (planetary) hub motors will always have more torque but they also have their drawbacks too. The geared hub motors such as the BMC/MAC or bfang 8fun all use a internal gear reduction system that gives them a lot of power and in most cases they are also lighter and smaller but they also cannot take the power DD motors can nor deliver the speed DD motors can once you get over ~48volts or 30~amps

There are also a lot of other factors that can change how these motors operate as well. Most all these motors geared, or DD also have a winding specification of "T" T stands for number of Turns or Turns around the stator pole.

More turns means more torque per phase amp (NOT battery amp). Torque per phase amp is inversely proportional to Kv. This means that more turns means less rpm/volt but more torque per phase amp (NOT battery amp).

A simpler way of saying that is 4T is more speed less torque, an 8T is less speed more torque

There are other places in these forums that explain in a lot more detail than this but lets take the BMC/MAC for example. It comes in a 6T, 8T, 10T and 12T windings and it should produce the following numbers.
12T HI-TORQUE 26mph-48v, 15mph-36v
10T HI-TORQUE 28mph-48v, 18mph-36v
8T CRUISER 30mph-48v, 24mph-36v
6T SPEED 34mph-48v, 28mph-36v

and neither of these numbers mention Battery Amps but I can tell you from my experience that the BMC/MAC needs about 30 Amps to achieve the speeds listed above. So if you do your math on that 48v x 30A = 1440 watts of power and this is the Maximum that you will get out of a BMC/MAC motor. They just were not made to handle any more power than that and if you really look close at the specs, for the most part they are only rated at 1000 watts Max, so pushing 30 Amps to these with a controller is running the motor in the red zone. However, if you are only bursting at these amps for short periods of time, then you should be fine. I put 1800 miles on my last motor with this setup until it finally quit.

Some of that info I took from here which also sells the MAC motor
http://sdelectricbike.com/MAC.html

Now the same thing applies to the DD motors when it comes to the "T" rating. For my example I will use some info I found on the leaf 1500watt DD hub motor which is very close to the EDGE DD motor I have and use.

The following info here is from another ES users called Neptronix. I have read many many of his posts. So should you. He outlines a lot of the pro and cons in the leafbike version of the 1500watt DD hub motor which is commonly available and fairly cheap and almost exactly what I am using for my Qulbix 76r and EBB builds.

For a 26" wheel, you will want a controller and battery capable of pushing 60 amps continuous during acceleration or hill climbing in order to hit the top speed of the motor and have decent torque.

60A x 48V = 2880W peak.

Here are some figures for speed per volt in a 26" wheel:

I measured my no load at 645rpm at 49 volts ( 13.16 kv ), so keep that in mind. By that math:

4T: 631rpm / 48v = 13.16 kv ( measurement by me, adjusted down 1 volt )
5T: 485rpm / 48v = 10.1 kv ( fluxshifter's measurement )
6T: 336rpm / 48v = 7kv ( assumption based on 3kV steps per winding )
Rough idea of 48v speeds in a 26" wheel:
4T: 39mph ( observed )
5T: 30mph ( calculated but not observed )
6T: 21mph ( assumed )

The next thing to also consider is the size of the wheel your motor is going in. The BMC/MAC has a diameter of about 172mm and the EDGE DD/leafbike 1500w is about 232mm. Using a 19inch rim vs a 26 or 27.5 rim will also affect your speed and torque as well as the size and diameter of your tires you put on top of that.

I want to also note that the BMC/MAC is about 15lbs while the 1500W DD's closer to 21lbs and some of the bigger MXUS3K and 5K Turbo are closer to 30lbs.

This is a huge fact to consider when lugging around your bike.

But back to the BMC/MAC to EDGE DD/Leaflike 1500watt motor comparison. I did a LOT of research before I bought either of these motors, probably hundreds of hours because there is really no one answer to suit everyone. There are so many factors that can affect everything. A 10T MAC in a super cheap bike frame on a 19" wheel with a 25a 36v controller will give you way different results than a 6T MAC in a nice suspension MTB frame on a 26-inch wheel using a 30a 48v controller. Just those two combinations of the same motor in a similar frame will give very noticeable difference in speed and torque as well as range.

In my best experience over the past 6 years, 6-7 of my own bikes and several observations of friends. The BMC/MAC or the 1500w DD is the best all-around motor for your average joe. Once you get beyond these, you get into a lot more money, size or weight.
48v at 30a will run either of these motors just fine for your average day to day riding and being able to hit 30+ mph
For a side by side comparison the DD takes more amps on the get go than the BMC/MAC to get similar results down the half mile flat street around the corner from me.

MAC 6T on MTB frame with a 48v 30a controller and a 48v 20AH li-on battery pack with a 50amp rating
EDGE DD on a 76r frame with a 60V 60a controller and a 60v 32AH li-po battery pack with a 100amp+ rating

In this race. The MAC will be faster right off the line however it loses strength the faster it goes where as the DD is slower off the line but still gaining speed at 30mph mark. It is also a lot smoother, the MAC is like driving a chainsaw go kart vs the DD which glides off the line and picks up speed quick. but both hit 30mph about the same place. However, I used much more than twice the power in the DD than I did in the MAC to get the same results but the bike the DD was in is also 70lbs heavier so that also has to be taken in to account.

48v x 30a = 1440 watts max 0-30mph full throttle
60v x 60a = 3600 watts max 0-30mph full throttle

So the actual winner here is the BMC/MAC but the BMC/MAC was running at 150 percent power and the DD was only running about 75 percent power. The BMC/MAC cannot sustain that power all day. The DD can.

So what did I just say there? I said that using both bikes in the configuration I have them setup in both give me similar results using the observed power I just listed above which means absolutely nothing to you unless your running the exact same configuration, controller plus motor type and model number I have.

And that is my answer to everyone that asks me which motor is better or which motor is best for me or what’s the fastest I can get or….
There are SO many variables that these questions are impossible to answer. Let’s list out the variables

Motor – Geared, Gearless – Winding (4T, 5T, 6T etc..)
Controller – Your controller should match the max power (volts/amps) your motor can take
Battery – Battery’s C rating needs to match max power (volts/amps) of controller
Size of rim and tire – a 17 inch rim will give much different results than a 27.5 inch rim using the same Motor, Controller and Battery. Smaller the rim, the more torque but less speed, larger rim, more speed less torque.

And the final variable is weight. My GT frame weighs about 38lbs. My 76r frame weighs 107lbs.
My average Wh/mi on the GT is 15, My average Wh/mi on the 76r is 35

This is a huge difference to get more or less the same comparable riding power and speeds from both bikes.
To go further into those numbers. The battery pack on my GT is a 48v-20a pack rated at 50a continuous discharge amps. The battery pack on the 76r is a 60v-32a rated at 160a continuous discharge amps.

48v x 20a = 960 watts of power total
60v x 32a = 1920 watts of power total
960w / 15Wh/mi = 64 miles of riding per charge on average
1920w / 35Wh/mi = 54 miles of riding per charge on average

So in comparison I am roughly getting the same range and power on the 76r that I am getting on the GT using twice the power.
And these numbers are conservative. If I romp on it, dog it, give it the gas or what ever you call it where your from, my Wh/mi goes up. On the GT not too much, it might go to ~23 on a hard ride where as the 76r will go to ~47 however if I ride very conservative, switch controller to 50% power, slow starts, coast when I can, etc.. I can even swing quite a bit more out of them

Using those numbers I just cut my riding range by a lot on semi-hard ride
960w / 23Wh/mi = 41 miles of riding per charge
1920w / 47Wh/mi = 40 miles of riding per charge

Or significantly increased them on a very conservative ride
960w / 13Wh/mi = 70 miles of riding per charge
1920w / 25Wh/mi = 76 miles of riding per charge

But again, the 76r is almost 70lbs heavier that the GT. It would be interesting to swap everything and see what numbers I was getting then using the battery, motor and controller on the opposite bike.

In one of my comments I was asked about, I noted I used less power using the speed switch. Unfortunately, the GT does not have this option at current, but the controller on the 76r is programmable to three different switch settings triggered by a 3-way switch I have mounted on the handlebar by the throttle. I have it configured as SW1-50%, SW2-75% and SW3-120%

What is this this 120% magic you speak of?? Some of the nicer controllers have what’s called field weakening (FOC) on the phases and the explanation of that starts to get over my head.

There is a very good article on how electric bike motors work here and you should read it but it’s more or less nitrous or turbo would be the closest quick term I can come up with

https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

But back to the Switch settings. I have a normal ~18 mile ride I do most every day. If I ride the bike in full power mode I use quite a bit more energy than I do riding at 50 percent. There is nothing magic here, the bike is going slower, it’s just not enough for me to really notice on my regular ride. I can still easily hit 30mph in both modes, it’s just slower getting there at 50% power than it is at full power. My average riding speed is about 18mph on this trip, there are many starts and stops, city blocks, sidewalks, trails and paths, I get through the same ride in the same amount of time, but one uses a lot less battery power than the other because I am not wasting energy accelerating to speed each step of the way.

The real answer is, what do you want to use your bike for? If you need to commute to school or work, then design your bike that way. If you’re a trial rider and climb a lot of hills and want to do it fast, then you will need to design your bike a different way.

In my opinion, anything under a 1000watts is a waste of my time. I’m over 50. My knees hurt a lot and so I don’t peddle very much. 800-1000 watts is my average usage riding the way I ride so that is the range I am building around.

If you’re a 25mph or less kinda of guy then the BMC/MAC is probably a good fit for you. After riding mine for a few years I felt like I needed a little more at times. The 1500watt DD motor is a great motor. Depending on the manufacture like the ones from EDGE or Leafbike there are people running 4-5000 watts through the motors for brief periods of time and it’s holding up. The BMC/MAC would fry at those numbers but the great thing about the 1500w DD is that it will also run decent on as little as 36v and 20a so given what you can afford for a motor controller and battery that gives you a wide range of something to start with and upgrade to in the future if needed.
I originally wanted to go with the MXUS 3K that seemed to be the one everyone was wanting at the time but I started doing the math and I did not like the numbers. It’s a heavy motor. 30lbs. It eats a lot of power. 3-5 thousand watts or more. The battery and controller are much more expensive. Going this route with some of the numbers listed here

https://fasterbikes.eu/en/hub-motors/211-mxus-3000-v3-3k-turbo-motor-direct-drive-3000whub-motors.html

MXUS 3K turbo in rim 350.00
72V controller 250.00
72v 20-40amp battery pack with a hi-discharge BMS starting at 1000.00 + more like 1500.00 for a good one

Now I am already 1500-2000 dollars in just my motor, controller and battery alone producing a setup that will consume about 6000 watts of power at full throttle.

72volts at 20amps of battery is 1440 watts.
72volts at 40amps of battery is 2880 watts.

And I got this info off another members forum here on the MXUS 3K testing results
Watt Hours (wh) required per mile on flat terrain with no wind. MTB

20mph=21wh
30mph=40wh
40mph=66wh
50mph=103wh

The Average wh/mi here is 57.5 between the 4 numbers

1440 watts – 25 miles per charge
2880 watts – 50 miles per charge

And these are all conservative numbers on flat ground. So after my thinking on all of that I decided that the bigger motors were just not for me. I don’t race, I don’t motocross. I am not competing in any events. I just like to ride. The EDGE 1500 has proven to be more than enough to take me anywhere I need to go and in the configuration I am using, it has plenty of torque to take me up the steepest of hills with zero peddle.

I personally can’t find a source for the EDGE version of this motor any longer but from reading this one from Leafbike is very close to the same specs and is not a bad price for the kit and if I remember reading right the default motor winding is a 5T but other windings can be ordered if noted at time of order.

http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/26-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/newest-26-inch-48v-1500w-rear-hub-motor-bike-conversion-kit-987.html

I also listed another link to the 1500watt DD motor I was using in the EBB Enduro. It looks and feels very same in performance and speed as does the EDGE so I would have to assume they are very similar motors. Unfortunately, my bank account has seen to many hard hits lately and I have not purchased a CA for the EBB yet. It is on my list, as soon as I get that I will be able to post some numbers from the motor I got from Ncycle used in the EBB. So far I have probably 300 miles on that bike though and it seems to be every bit as good as the EDGE and for all l know could be the EDGE under a different name or re-seller.

I have both a 6T and 8T BMC and to be honest, the 6T has way too much torque, in most instances I have pretty much quit letting people ride that bike because they kept hurting themselves. In the lightweight GT MTB frame it is almost impossible to keep the front wheel on the ground at speeds less than 5-8mph the bike will flip right out from underneath you if your not careful with the throttle.
A good place to start is the ebike simulator found here.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

It will seem confusing at first but after playing around with it for a while you will be able to see the differences between the different motors and configure a bike for your needs. If you go to the motor selection and scroll all the way down there is a SHOW ALL option that will give you more motors to choose from as well as a custom option for battery packs if yours is not listed. The EDGE motor is not listed there but the Leaf 35mm 5T is and that is about as close as you can find to what I have talked about here in this article. If you spend a lot of time there you will see that most of the motors are pretty much the same.

On another note: When I first started this, I was terrified about getting a wheel that was already laced. I have since overcome that and laced several motors myself. It’s really not that hard.

There is also a spoke calculator here
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html

You don’t need to worry about a lot of the numbers just make sure you get the ERD and flange diameter of your motor correct and all of mine have worked fine. After you get the proper length there is also a BUY NOW button so it’s a one stop shop and their spoke are quality.

Once you get your spokes, there is good information here on how to lace the wheel.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

All of these I did are setup on a 1x cross pattern. I would think that with the size of the motor in a rim, a 1x patter is all there is room for.

In my next post I will describe the differenced between the 76R frame, the EBB Enduro as well as the GT and the pro’s cons of buying and or riding each of these from my own experience and I will do my best to get together a final cost analysis of the three.
I can already tell you that the Qulbix 76r is the best bike all around in my opinion. Stay tuned for why.

 

[Antenor]

Thank you for the detailled information

 

[exe]

Awesome detailed post. BTW the Mxus 3K are not 30lbs.

Mxus 3k v1: 17.2 lbs
Mxus 3k v2 20lbs.
Mxus 3k v3 20.7lbs.

Leaf 1.5k 16.7lbs.

BTW, did you have a truing stand to lack the wheels?

 

[BoomerChomsi]

thanks for sharing info mate! nice builds!
Is the 76r really 76mm width?

 

[felix991]

Awesome detailed post. BTW the Mxus 3K are not 30lbs.

Mxus 3k v1: 17.2 lbs
Mxus 3k v2 20lbs.
Mxus 3k v3 20.7lbs.

Leaf 1.5k 16.7lbs.

BTW, did you have a truing stand to lack the wheels?

My apologies, I really do try and get all the information I type in correct when I post especially if it is the main point. I should have been more descriptive in the sentence. I originally wrote "and some of the bigger MXUS3K and 5K Turbo are closer to 30lbs. " What I did not list was the weight of the 3k but the weight of the 5K which is close to 30lbs. 28.5lbs if I am not correct, please correct me.

It was more or less the way the sentence was written and I am no English major by any means. The point was be sure and watch your weights when designing a bike you have to carry around and that some of the other motors are a lot heavier.

 

[felix991]

thanks for sharing info mate! nice builds!
Is the 76r really 76mm width?

Yes is, which is good and bad. good for appearance and size between your legs and bad for trying to fit stuff in there. An 18650 with leads on both ends and some insulation and tape is just at 76mm so you must be very careful when building or buying a pack that does not go over those tolerances or your side covers will not go back on. Qulbix also make a 140 frame which is 140mm which is more or less what the EEB Enduro bike (also in the post) closer resembles. I have not had time to write more on my comparisons between the two but my next post was going to be on the frames and the size differences pros and cons and why I think the 76r is the better bike but it sure is a lot easier having that extra space in the EEB / Q140 to put all your stuff into.

 

[BoomerChomsi]

Thanks for reply, I am looking forward to see some comparisons...

 

[L3chef]

Time for an update? I just ordered a 76 frame

 

[pjwalmsley]

Awesome information! Thank you for sharing this!

I’d love to know more about how you feel the two frames compare when you have a moment.

 

[felix991]

Awesome information! Thank you for sharing this!

I’d love to know more about how you feel the two frames compare when you have a moment.

Sorry, I got really sick last year and didn't come here anymore.

The Qulbix 76r while expensive is the best bike by far. I don't even ride the other two anymore. They mostly just sit unless my friends want to go. The "bike frame" served its purpose back in the day and got me into e-bikes. It really just sit's in my office these days against the wall as a trophy.

The 76r with the moto tires just has the best weight and steering. I have no problem zooming all over on that one. The one I labeled EBB is a little squirrely in sharp corners. It has to do with the rake on the steering. It is more vertical than the 76r and I have dumped a few times because of that.

Sorry for the late response.

 

[pjwalmsley]

No worries. Thank you for the reply and hope all is well on the health front!

I ended up picking up a 76 frame, lightning rods motor, bac controller and some other parts then paused for a bit as I was spending too much. Lol Just put an order in for the battery though so things should start coming together soon!