Rebuilt kids electric cross to 3000w

[Dixonk]

Since you are OK with the total amount of power but just want to tame the throttle ramp I would suggest removing all the power limits thru the CA3 and setting the throttle in Pass-thru mode. This will eliminate some of the more tricky gain settings that come into play when you are actually trying to limit power. I think you will be fine just using the throttle ramp/time settings to do the taming.

I would start like this:

Begin with the throttle input and output voltage minimums. Start with the wheel in the air and the CA throttle set to bypass. Your controller is looking for about 1v closed throttle and around 4v full throttle. There is a throttle input/output display screen on the CA3 that will show you the throttle signal in vs what its sending out. You can use this screen to figure out at what voltage the controller starts to turn the motor. You will set your minimum throttle out just below this point. You also can use this screen to figure out the minimum signal your throttle is sending out when its closed. You can set the minimum throttle in just slightly above this point and it will eliminate the dead spot at the bottom. Even without the throttle output of the CA3 going to your controller you can use this throttle screen to make sure everything is set as responsive as possible. Its pretty clever. Basically you are looking for the CA to not be sending any signal out when the throttle is closed but you dont want the first 10% of throttle twist being ignored either. Once you get that set set the CA in pass through and move on to the throttle output ramp rate settings.

Try a throttle ramp up of 0.3 - 0.5 volts per second to start and increase from there. When you get up around 5-6v per second it becomes almost imperceptible to human brains and will probably feel exactly like the controller did without the CA. Do this testing with smooth continuous accelerations. Once you get the acceleration how you want then move on to the fast throttle up settings.

Start with the Fast throttle up rate to 1-2V/sec. The fast throttle up eliminates the dead band or slack in the throttle when the bike is rolling along at speed. It ramps the throttle up super fast until it feels a slight load then it reverts to your normal throttle ramp. It makes the bike feel way more responsive from a roll. Otherwise a bike rolling along at moderate speed will feel like there is a delay and then a hard kick. A motor free spinning with no load will consume about 1-2 amps. If you set the Fast throttle up current threshold at 2 amps then when you are rolling along at speed and you tip into the throttle it will will quickly ramp until it feels 2 amps and then it knows it has caught up. Once this is all set correctly the bike will feel very responsive but not any more violent than it does when accelerating constantly from a dead stop. If you set the fast up current threshold too high then it will kick for just a second and then smooth out to normal acceleration. The goal with this is to eliminate all of the slack/delay when throttling from a roll but not have it overshoot because its ramping up super fast. Its a bit of a balancing act.

If you got the programing cable and the CA3 parameter editor you can post screenshots of your settings and we can probably help a bit if you are having trouble. The instruction manual is really good too. I'll look around for one of my CA files from a 4kw chain drive motor I had. That might give you an idea of some starting points.

This was awesome!! The CA is supposed to arrive today so I'll give this a shot tonight if it arrives, sounds alot easier than I thought, I hope so anyway!

Sounds awesome if I can control the throttle respons ill reach back If anything is unclear, thanks alot for helping out. What an awesome community!! Never thought I would get anything from this but this is far better than I thought. Im grateful!!

Now im coming with another question
https://www.superbilligt.se/cross-mc/cross-fiddy-offroad/el-1/2000w/el-cross-e-dirt-q-bike-xtreme-2000w-10957

This is in swedish but some part might be understandable, its a dirt bike 2000w 60V 20ah battery, said to have decent torque and a top speed of 70km/h with a 100kg driver and drives up to 80km..
Im able to buy this for 600usd, it looks worse than a diy bike in my eyes.. too much bling, headlights,blinkers and stuff even thought its illegal to drive it here, would just be something to drive next to my son.. it retail for 1400usd but might be worth 600usd?
What are you thought on it? Could 72v work with it without burning up the motor? Or keep it stock? Should I buy it as a placeholder until I do something for myself overtime?

Yay or nay? Opinions?

Best regards

 

[DanGT86]

The CA programming seems overwhelming at first. Just remember you don't need all of the features. Since your goal is to simply limit the throttle ramp that is an easy task. Just set all the other limits high enough so they arent being used. I always apply new settings with my wheel in the air just in case so the bike doesnt run away.

This community is awesome. I have learned so much from everyone around here. We all like spending other people's money. :lol:

Its hard to lose with any running bike for $600. The biggest issue with that bike is going to be the hub motor. Riding hubs over bumpy terrain is not too good. I guess its better than nothing. There is just too much unsprung weight for the suspension to control. It could make a really fun commuter if you are willing to break the law.

If you get it to cruise around and see how you like it you can probably change your mind and sell it without losing too much money. But I don't think you will like it enough to start upgrading the battery voltage.

BLDC motors don't really have a voltage limit. They are synchronous in that the RPM is directly proportional to the voltage you feed them. The only real limit is the max safe RPM of the motor in terms of bearings and balance. Running higher voltage increases the top speed of the vehicle and allows less amp draw from the battery at low speeds since power in is Voltage x Current.

There is no way to know for certain what the max safe voltage of a controller is unless you can find documentation. I guess you could open it up and look at the part numbers on the capacitors and other components. If everything you find is rated for 90v then 72 is probably fine. Maybe you could find a part number on the controller.

 

[Dixonk]

The CA programming seems overwhelming at first. Just remember you don't need all of the features. Since your goal is to simply limit the throttle ramp that is an easy task. Just set all the other limits high enough so they arent being used. I always apply new settings with my wheel in the air just in case so the bike doesnt run away.

This community is awesome. I have learned so much from everyone around here. We all like spending other people's money. :lol:

Its hard to lose with any running bike for $600. The biggest issue with that bike is going to be the hub motor. Riding hubs over bumpy terrain is not too good. I guess its better than nothing. There is just too much unsprung weight for the suspension to control. It could make a really fun commuter if you are willing to break the law.

If you get it to cruise around and see how you like it you can probably change your mind and sell it without losing too much money. But I don't think you will like it enough to start upgrading the battery voltage.

BLDC motors don't really have a voltage limit. They are synchronous in that the RPM is directly proportional to the voltage you feed them. The only real limit is the max safe RPM of the motor in terms of bearings and balance. Running higher voltage increases the top speed of the vehicle and allows less amp draw from the battery at low speeds since power in is Voltage x Current.

There is no way to know for certain what the max safe voltage of a controller is unless you can find documentation. I guess you could open it up and look at the part numbers on the capacitors and other components. If everything you find is rated for 90v then 72 is probably fine. Maybe you could find a part number on the controller.

I didnt know hub motors were bad at uneven / bumpy roads, crap. Does it break easy? We kinda live close to a forest and not say 10minutes car drive from nearest "village" so pretty much gravel road with some bumps and our forest my son drives in when tracks are closed.

At 600 the price is tempting since I havent found one decent ebike even remotely close to 600, most seem to be 1500usd for 250w 36v and.. hell no
But I dont want to buy If it easily breaks.. probably wont use it to drive between towns, single parent with 2 kids so its highly unlikely to put my two kids on it and drive off, if we were even to fit on it

Since my knowledge is so little at this moment in regards to this, I thought 600 would be something usable for now to follow my son around in the forest and our own road for fun until I get something perhaps more suitable but if hub motors are bad and prone to break im not so sure.. 2000w also sounds abit low but perhaps im wrong there not sure.

Thanks for your input!!

 

[Chalo]

I didnt know hub motors were bad at uneven / bumpy roads, crap. Does it break easy? We kinda live close to a forest and not say 10minutes car drive from nearest "village" so pretty much gravel road with some bumps and our forest my son drives in when tracks are closed.

Gear reduced hub motors can damage their gearboxes from shock loads when ridden in rough conditions, like where the wheel leaves the ground for long enough to spin up to a higher RPM and then suddenly slows when it returns to the ground. Any surface you would drive a car on probably won't present this issue.

Direct drive hub motors don't have gears or clutches to break, but they also don't have as much torque at low speed (at the same power level).

Much of MTBers' objection to hub motors comes from their large unsprung weight, which makes suspension less effective. For many riding styles, this isn't a major factor.

 

[DanGT86]

I think it would do fine on gravel and hard pack dirt roads. I don't think its going to break it. The performance is not ideal because of the suspension action. I would not recommend it if you were building an offroad bike from scratch.

I have ridden my large direct drive hub motor on single track offroad motorcycle trails and on a motocross track. Its super easy to bend regular bicycle rims with a hub motor and spokes if you are jumping and hitting logs and roots. For smooth stuff it would be fine. I don't think you can go wrong for $600 unless the bike is so cheaply made it feels unsafe to you.

 

[Dixonk]

I think it would do fine on gravel and hard pack dirt roads. I don't think its going to break it. The performance is not ideal because of the suspension action. I would not recommend it if you were building an offroad bike from scratch.

I have ridden my large direct drive hub motor on single track offroad motorcycle trails and on a motocross track. Its super easy to bend regular bicycle rims with a hub motor and spokes if you are jumping and hitting logs and roots. For smooth stuff it would be fine. I don't think you can go wrong for $600 unless the bike is so cheaply made it feels unsafe to you.

Thanks for the information guys! 600 sounded abit more fair from my perspective for a ready made bike, I only have enough money for a motor and controller for myself at this point.
Not sure my cells are good enough, taken from ebike batteries, got enough to make a 72v 30ah pack - I doubt they're the highest quality. Price is definitely key here but certainly dont want to pay for something that sits in the garage and cant be used as intended

Not sure what I can accomolish diy with my pack either and limited amounts.. stands between a diy ebike or diy old dirt bike that I can fix up. Would be awesome to have something able to run a few laps on track without issues. Guess I'll pass on the 600 bike!

Thanks alot for the save, I appreciate it!!

 

[Dixonk]

Hi there, back again for another question!

I was supposed to recieved the Cycle Analyst yesterday but it was delayed, should be getting it today!

What I've missed is how do I wire this thing up? Not getting any good results from youtube as I don't really know what to search for.
Only hit I found was someone soldering inside the controller and I was under the impression you didn't have to do this with the CA but must have dreamt it. haha

Can someone here give a brief answer how to plug it in? or if anyone has a guide for it? A basic one would do, I can't really understand diagrams but if someone says + to + and - to - its more readable to me. Thanks alot!

 

[fechter]

The CA has several connections it needs to work. Power is pretty straightforward. It needs a current sensor input that is a shunt either inside the controller or an external one. In your case, you might want an external one, but you'd have to buy one. There is also a speed input, either from a wheel sensor or from one of the motor hall signals. Lastly, there's a tie-in to the throttle line which allows it to limit the motor output when it sees the current reach the set limit. The instructions are on the Grin website.

https://www.ebikes.ca/pub/media/downloadable/documents/CycleAnalyst_V31_Web.pdf
and some videos:
https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst-3.html#Videos

My experience is the CA has too much latency (time delay) to make a stable feedback loop. There are PID tuning parameters you can play with to try making it stable. Using it to only pull the throttle down works much better than passing the throttle signal through as there is no delay in applying throttle this way. Instability in the feedback causes surging or oscillation in the power output. Not such a big deal on a 250w bike, but on a high power setup, it can be dangerous. Once everything is dialed-in, it should behave nicely.

 

[Dixonk]

The CA has several connections it needs to work. Power is pretty straightforward. It needs a current sensor input that is a shunt either inside the controller or an external one. In your case, you might want an external one, but you'd have to buy one. There is also a speed input, either from a wheel sensor or from one of the motor hall signals. Lastly, there's a tie-in to the throttle line which allows it to limit the motor output when it sees the current reach the set limit. The instructions are on the Grin website.

https://www.ebikes.ca/pub/media/downloadable/documents/CycleAnalyst_V31_Web.pdf
and some videos:
https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst-3.html#Videos

My experience is the CA has too much latency (time delay) to make a stable feedback loop. There are PID tuning parameters you can play with to try making it stable. Using it to only pull the throttle down works much better than passing the throttle signal through as there is no delay in applying throttle this way. Instability in the feedback causes surging or oscillation in the power output. Not such a big deal on a 250w bike, but on a high power setup, it can be dangerous. Once everything is dialed-in, it should behave nicely.

Thank you, I'll have a read on the website pdf. Thanks for linking it, couldn't find it by google.

I bought with the external shunt that connect to the CA and also another shunt that has no cable to the CA. How do you connect that one or is that in the manual aswell? Couldn't see it on the first pages when opened quickly.

Thanks a bundle!

 

[DanGT86]

Hopefully you bought this shunt.


This is from the end of the user manual in the link you have.


You will want to wire your throttle handle into the CA throttle input by matching the 5v, signal, and ground wires to the throttle input plug on the CA. For this you will unplug the throttle from your controller. If you bought the shunt pictured above that goes between your battery and controller. The 6 pin cable from the CA that connects to that shunt has the CA throttle output wire in it. It is pin 6 and should be green. This throttle out wire will go to the signal wire of your controllers throttle input plug.

I have experience the throttle latency issues that Fechter is talking about while trying to limit a high current setup. It is annoying however you can still use the throttle through the CA and get the smoothing effect you are after by removing the power/current limits and only messing with the ramp speed. For that you will set the throttle in Pass-Thru mode.

You can save the PID tuning for later if you end up wanting to mess with a power or current based throttle strategy.

 

[Dixonk]

Hopefully you bought this shunt.
shunt.jpg

This is from the end of the user manual in the link you have.
Wiring .jpg

You will want to wire your throttle handle into the CA throttle input by matching the 5v, signal, and ground wires to the throttle input plug on the CA. For this you will unplug the throttle from your controller. If you bought the shunt pictured above that goes between your battery and controller. The 6 pin cable from the CA that connects to that shunt has the CA throttle output wire in it. It is pin 6 and should be green. This throttle out wire will go to the signal wire of your controllers throttle input plug.

I have experience the throttle latency issues that Fechter is talking about while trying to limit a high current setup. It is annoying however you can still use the throttle through the CA and get the smoothing effect you are after by removing the power/current limits and only messing with the ramp speed. For that you will set the throttle in Pass-Thru mode.

You can save the PID tuning for later if you end up wanting to mess with a power or current based throttle strategy.

Okey! This was helpful, thank you a bundle!
Throttle wires into CA throttle connection, shunt between battery and controller.
That leaves the controller throttle connection, how does the controller get throttle input if its not connected? And what is the pass throu wires from the shunt?
Am I supposed to remove that shrink wrap and connection them to controller input?

Oh boy, am I over my head on this one

 

[DanGT86]

You'll be fine. Just go slow and double check things.

The Pass thru wires from the shunt are where you will find your throttle output wire. It should be green. This is what will go into the throttle plug on your controller. That should be the only signal the controller needs for the throttle.

The Cycle analyst is such a common device that lots of ebike controllers already have the 6 pin wiring harness to go straight into the CA. Yours probably doesnt which is where the passthrough wires on the shunt come into play. That shunt is the easiest way to hook a CA to any controller.

The throttle signal goes from the handle into the CA. The CA then takes that signal and sends it through the 6 pin harness that goes to the shunt. The shunt pass thru green wire goes into the throttle signal wire of your controller.

If the shunt you are using is the one from the pic then you shouldn't need to remove any shrink wrap from the 6 pin harness. If you did you would find the green throttle out wire in there as well. Its just nicer to get that from the shunt pass through so your 6 pin connection is nice and clean.

 

[Dixonk]

Since you are OK with the total amount of power but just want to tame the throttle ramp I would suggest removing all the power limits thru the CA3 and setting the throttle in Pass-thru mode. This will eliminate some of the more tricky gain settings that come into play when you are actually trying to limit power. I think you will be fine just using the throttle ramp/time settings to do the taming.

I would start like this:

Begin with the throttle input and output voltage minimums. Start with the wheel in the air and the CA throttle set to bypass. Your controller is looking for about 1v closed throttle and around 4v full throttle. There is a throttle input/output display screen on the CA3 that will show you the throttle signal in vs what its sending out. You can use this screen to figure out at what voltage the controller starts to turn the motor. You will set your minimum throttle out just below this point. You also can use this screen to figure out the minimum signal your throttle is sending out when its closed. You can set the minimum throttle in just slightly above this point and it will eliminate the dead spot at the bottom. Even without the throttle output of the CA3 going to your controller you can use this throttle screen to make sure everything is set as responsive as possible. Its pretty clever. Basically you are looking for the CA to not be sending any signal out when the throttle is closed but you dont want the first 10% of throttle twist being ignored either. Once you get that set set the CA in pass through and move on to the throttle output ramp rate settings.

Try a throttle ramp up of 0.3 - 0.5 volts per second to start and increase from there. When you get up around 5-6v per second it becomes almost imperceptible to human brains and will probably feel exactly like the controller did without the CA. Do this testing with smooth continuous accelerations. Once you get the acceleration how you want then move on to the fast throttle up settings.

Start with the Fast throttle up rate to 1-2V/sec. The fast throttle up eliminates the dead band or slack in the throttle when the bike is rolling along at speed. It ramps the throttle up super fast until it feels a slight load then it reverts to your normal throttle ramp. It makes the bike feel way more responsive from a roll. Otherwise a bike rolling along at moderate speed will feel like there is a delay and then a hard kick. A motor free spinning with no load will consume about 1-2 amps. If you set the Fast throttle up current threshold at 2 amps then when you are rolling along at speed and you tip into the throttle it will will quickly ramp until it feels 2 amps and then it knows it has caught up. Once this is all set correctly the bike will feel very responsive but not any more violent than it does when accelerating constantly from a dead stop. If you set the fast up current threshold too high then it will kick for just a second and then smooth out to normal acceleration. The goal with this is to eliminate all of the slack/delay when throttling from a roll but not have it overshoot because its ramping up super fast. Its a bit of a balancing act.

If you got the programing cable and the CA3 parameter editor you can post screenshots of your settings and we can probably help a bit if you are having trouble. The instruction manual is really good too. I'll look around for one of my CA files from a 4kw chain drive motor I had. That might give you an idea of some starting points.

I managed to add the CA to my sons bike along with their potentiometer and one with +- and middle button and plugged in to pc and followed above instructions, however i couldn't change any settings in the program at all, whatever I input be it 1.31v or 2. It either default to max or 1.

Throttle in closed was 0.88V and out was 0.99V tried to change these values but with the CA itself but I couldnt figure out what the hell I was doing
Motor starts to spin at 1.33V. What value should I change?
I feel dumb haha!
I managed to add the CA and managed to change battery to 20S and 72V, so atleast that was a success but dont know how hehe. Its real late so I should probably get some sleep..
Any ideas?

Thanks again, I appreciate it

 

[DanGT86]

That is weird behavior regarding the software. If you cant get to the bottom of that quickly you can change settings at the device with the two buttons.

Hold the left button down for a few seconds and it will enter setup menus. Then you can scroll through the settings. I believe you hold the left button to toggle the cursor and the right button to fhange values.

If the throttle closed is .88v then set your minimum throttle in to .95v
This tells the ca not to send throttle signal out until .95v

If the wheel starts turning at 1.33v then set the minimum throttle out value slightly lower than that like 1.28v.

This will keep the ramp up from having to pass all the way from .88v to 1.33v. As you close in on these limits the dead zone in the throttle will be eliminated such that the bike moves as soon as you move the throttle with no slop. If you set them too close you will feel the bike try to creep forward when the throttle is closed.

 

[DanGT86]

You probably dont need the potentiometer and the +,- aux button. I believe they are different versions of the same thing.

Not to overwhelm you but you probably want to hook the brake lever signal into the CA as well. Its a good idea for the CA to know the brakes are on.

Does your controller have regen?

 

[Dixonk]

You probably dont need the potentiometer and the +,- aux button. I believe they are different versions of the same thing.

Not to overwhelm you but you probably want to hook the brake lever signal into the CA as well. Its a good idea for the CA to know the brakes are on.

Does your controller have regen?

Thank you, I'll try this! The controller has regen breaks are connected to controller itself, its better to connect to CA? None of the plugs fit so I have to solder the in.

I noticed last night the throttle has a rather big deadzone before motor starts to spin, thank you for the helping out. Ill try above mentioned step to see if it becomes better.

I bought the potentiometer and the other buttons in hopes to create different levels and allow my son to adjust at will byt programming this thing is not something im great at, haha.

 

[DanGT86]

The way I have my brake setup with the CA is the brake switch wires split and one set goes to the controller and the other set goes to the blue and ground wires of the CA. If you have it correct the CA main screen will show the brake lever icon moving when you pull the brake.

Its a good idea to let the CA know when you are braking. Since the CA is sending out throttle signal you want to make sure you can always override that with the brake.

Imagine you are using the CA to limit based on power and It doesnt know you are braking. If your hand is also pulling the throttle the CA doesnt know why the bike is not drawing current so it continues to ramp the throttle aggressively trying to draw the current it thinks you want. As soon as you let off the brake you find your self at full throttle. It will surprise you or throw you off the bike. So you definitely want the CA to know the brake handle is being pulled.

As for the potentiometer and switch. My understanding is that those are 2 different options of AUX switch. I didn't know you can run both of them at the same time. In the aux setting menu it should show you voltage of whichever switch you have hooked up. You can set what you want that switch to limit. Speed/power/current etc. It lets you choose what voltage means what power level. So if the potentiometer is 1.v to 3.v then you would set 1v at zero and 3v at full. So the potentiometer can limit the power anywhere from 0-100%.

The switch with the +/- buttons serves the same basic function but you set specific levels and then click through them one at a time. The CA will call this Digital aux. I believe the +/- button allows you to navigate the menus on the CA with your thumb instead of the buttons on the front of the device.

On my bikes I have a 3 position aux switch. I use it for 0% 50% and 100% current. I like having the 0% option for getting on and off the bike without accidentally bumping the throttle. People have a tendency to accidentally pull the throttle when they arent used to powered bikes.

Dont get discouraged. You will get the hang of this thing. Just start simple. Do the throttle stuff first and have the AUX disabled so its not messing with you while you tune the throttle ramp. You don't want too many variables at the same time.

 

[Dixonk]

The way I have my brake setup with the CA is the brake switch wires split and one set goes to the controller and the other set goes to the blue and ground wires of the CA. If you have it correct the CA main screen will show the brake lever icon moving when you pull the brake.

Its a good idea to let the CA know when you are braking. Since the CA is sending out throttle signal you want to make sure you can always override that with the brake.

Imagine you are using the CA to limit based on power and It doesnt know you are braking. If your hand is also pulling the throttle the CA doesnt know why the bike is not drawing current so it continues to ramp the throttle aggressively trying to draw the current it thinks you want. As soon as you let off the brake you find your self at full throttle. It will surprise you or throw you off the bike. So you definitely want the CA to know the brake handle is being pulled.

As for the potentiometer and switch. My understanding is that those are 2 different options of AUX switch. I didn't know you can run both of them at the same time. In the aux setting menu it should show you voltage of whichever switch you have hooked up. You can set what you want that switch to limit. Speed/power/current etc. It lets you choose what voltage means what power level. So if the potentiometer is 1.v to 3.v then you would set 1v at zero and 3v at full. So the potentiometer can limit the power anywhere from 0-100%.

The switch with the +/- buttons serves the same basic function but you set specific levels and then click through them one at a time. The CA will call this Digital aux. I believe the +/- button allows you to navigate the menus on the CA with your thumb instead of the buttons on the front of the device.

On my bikes I have a 3 position aux switch. I use it for 0% 50% and 100% current. I like having the 0% option for getting on and off the bike without accidentally bumping the throttle. People have a tendency to accidentally pull the throttle when they arent used to powered bikes.

Dont get discouraged. You will get the hang of this thing. Just start simple. Do the throttle stuff first and have the AUX disabled so its not messing with you while you tune the throttle ramp. You don't want too many variables at the same time.

The program is a complete mess but I managed to dial it in somewhat using the display, its much smoother now, feels great!! With some more trial and error im pretty sure I can get much better results!
Thanks a bundle!!

Just got the fardriver 73200 today aswell, guess now I need to find a good motor match for this one since the CA will stay on my kids bike, cant really be arsed to cut and weld to fit the new controller!

One thing I found strange was that I put throttle in minimum to 0.95 and throttle out minimum to 1.25 and most of the deadzone was gone and it felt amazing, however when I turned off the bike and turned it on again, throttle didnt work at all until I removed the settings in CA. I had to put 0.89 and 1.15V, guess I have to accept deadzone, but atleast it works better now!!

 

[DanGT86]

The controller might have a maximum closed throttle baseline level its looking for to make sure the throttle is not open at start up. May be a safety feature to keep it from powering up and running away. Perhaps your minimum throttle out was above that threshold.

Like most things you just have to sneak up on the settings incrementally until it doesnt work and then back it off.

I would think the minimum throttle in setting is going to have the largest effect on the dead zone. If the minimum throttle out is too big its going to ramp through that voltage so fast it probably wont have much delay.

Something you want to be aware of is the maximum throttle out voltage. If its working fine now its probably not a problem. A broken hall throttle will typically put out way more than than 4v. Most controllers have some kind of fault detection such that they will cut power at some point between 4-5v If you ever find that full throttle makes the controller cut out then you should lower the max throttle voltage setting in the CA. Typically you don't want the CA output to be any higher than the throttle is without the CA.

Glad to hear you are already seeing the benefits of the device. I would have felt bad if you had given up because I suggested it.

As for your bike for yourself, the QS motors 3000watt mid-drive motor seems to get pretty good results around here. People have run them around 20kw without problems. Its a bit heavy for a bicycle but would be good on an adult sized motorcycle.

Lightning rods has an interesting lineup of motors that I think would be great on a mountain bike or light trail moto. His XXL motor might be good for a full size motorcycle but I have not seen it actually used by anyone yet.
https://lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com/motors/

All kinda depends on what type of bike you are messing with.

 

[Dixonk]

The controller might have a maximum closed throttle baseline level its looking for to make sure the throttle is not open at start up. May be a safety feature to keep it from powering up and running away. Perhaps your minimum throttle out was above that threshold.

Like most things you just have to sneak up on the settings incrementally until it doesnt work and then back it off.

I would think the minimum throttle in setting is going to have the largest effect on the dead zone. If the minimum throttle out is too big its going to ramp through that voltage so fast it probably wont have much delay.

Something you want to be aware of is the maximum throttle out voltage. If its working fine now its probably not a problem. A broken hall throttle will typically put out way more than than 4v. Most controllers have some kind of fault detection such that they will cut power at some point between 4-5v If you ever find that full throttle makes the controller cut out then you should lower the max throttle voltage setting in the CA. Typically you don't want the CA output to be any higher than the throttle is without the CA.

Glad to hear you are already seeing the benefits of the device. I would have felt bad if you had given up because I suggested it.

As for your bike for yourself, the QS motors 3000watt mid-drive motor seems to get pretty good results around here. People have run them around 20kw without problems. Its a bit heavy for a bicycle but would be good on an adult sized motorcycle.

Lightning rods has an interesting lineup of motors that I think would be great on a mountain bike or light trail moto. His XXL motor might be good for a full size motorcycle but I have not seen it actually used by anyone yet.
https://lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com/motors/

All kinda depends on what type of bike you are messing with.

I find a good enough setting with throttle minimum in and out, kinda getting tired of plugging out and in the battery to get the throttle to work. My son has to live with a little slack on the throttle

I set the throttle up speed at 0.45V, I cant really find a good value for this? And throttle fast to 2.5V and that amp thing to 4, both these last values didnt seem to make any or much difference, it accerelates decent enough with me on it, I would like abit more to be honest.. can the potentiometer somehow control the acceleration? Thing is, I want my son to ease into things, it doesnt fling me off by slight throttle movement, but it has to have some more power at take off for whenever he is stuck in mud or sand, has to have more grunt!
But.. he doesnt fling me off so thats good, means he wont fly off either

The throttle fast and amp thing I couldn't figure out.. once the bike was moving, moving the throttle had like no effect at start took awhile for it to catch up, I printed out the manual but eh.. im abit slow I suppose any hints? Do I need to increase amp 4 to higher?

Then I got some other questions, I cant power off my controller nor my battery.. how do I turn off the CA display? Im plugging out the battery or the fuse after every ride but these sparks are getting to me, must be another better way?

My controller has a 3 way switch that was attached to the throttle but have since broken off, check this image. Can I somehow remove these switches and bridge? The contact on the controller so it think its in fastest speed 3 and then limit via the CA instead? If so.. how? its put in the 3 position now and it seems its only a blue and white cable. The other cables seen in this broken handle is for forward and reverse which I dont need to change at all.


And here a photo of the CA on the bike


Im super suprised how well the 3000w motor handles me, we got some pretty nasty hills where we live and it just keeps accerelating up, its fun.. I wish I had a little bit bigger bike for myself to ride around with, I think ive given up the idea of a fullsize cross rebuild, looks too expensive and Im not even sure my rather cheap ebike batteries rebuilt to 72v 30ah can handle that.. I have a 125cc frame with tires without the motor now and that feels more heavy than my sons 3000w bike, I can barely lift that frame!


Need to look for a lighter frame and pick a motor suitable for my battery.. I was into a bike first but who am I kidding.. I dont want to pedal at all but the frames are light..


Im rambling, thanks alot for helping out this much!

 

[DanGT86]

I assume you mean .45v/sec on the throttle up speed? If so try increasing that until you get the acceleration you are after. One of my bikes is at 5v per sec. At some point that will be so fast it will feel like it used to before the CA.

I think the fast throttle up must have speed signal working to function. The idea with the fast throttle up setting is to pick a very aggressive ramp up speed but only to the amount of amps it takes for the bike to begin to pull from a roll. Its hard to guess an exact value for these amps. You can try 10v per second and see if it feel different then go up or down from there. 4 amps is probably a bit on the high side. I would guess 2amps. You will know that is too high when there is a momentary jolt when you throttle from a steady cruise state. This is the result of it overshooting a bit at the faster ramp speed. Remember the controller still thinks the throttle is speed based. So without the fast throttle up feature you would have to wait for your normal ramp speed to catch up with however fast you are going. You can try crazy high volts/sec settings for this just dont set the amps too high. If the amps are close then the overshoot will be very brief and not buck you too hard.

The AUX switch/ potentiometer cant control acceleration specifically but if you are using a watt or amp based throttle strategy then then it will have a similar effect. A 1500 watt bike wont accelerate as hard as a 3000 watt bike. So when you get time or energy to tune the throttle in watts or amps rather that simple time based ramp you can use that aux switch.

The CA allows you to have different profiles. So you can have one profile set for you and another for your son. I believe they can have completely different acceleration ramps and power settings. I have not used this feature so you need to study the manual. I have seen the profiles in the setting menu before but I only use one of them.

Most controllers default to speed #2 with the 3 position switch unplugged. Some have a simple 2 wire connection that is the highest speed. Its hard to know what you have. Most of the time the speed switches have a common wire and 2 speed wires. Wire 1 to common is speed 1. Wire 3 to common is speed 3. No wires to common is speed 2. So unplugging it is the same as 2.

3-5kw could be fun on the 125 if the trails are narrow or if its geared for a top speed of 30mph and you like trials or technical riding. A full size moto frame probably starts to get fun at 7-10kw. Thats all just opinion.

 

[amberwolf]

Then I got some other questions, I cant power off my controller nor my battery.. how do I turn off the CA display? Im plugging out the battery or the fuse after every ride but these sparks are getting to me, must be another better way?

I've successfully used, for years, a "standard" car/truck/RV battery cutoff switch as a main power cutoff for 14s (58v full) batteries, on an 80A+ max current system. It's not rated for the voltage, but it does work when only shutting off with no load on the system. I wouldn't bet on it working under load, though.
There's a bunch of different kinds; these pix show some of them:
https://www.google.com/search?q=battery+cutoff+switch&tbm=isch

 

[DanGT86]

Ive always been tempted to try a marine circuit breaker for main power. I worry about the spark from 75v killing them but like Amberwolf mentioned not being under load probably helps a lot on the arc.

Dixonk, you probably need to look at building a pre-charge circuit or using an anti-spark connector. Some anti-spark XT-90 connectors would probably work for you.

https://www.amazon.com/Amass-Connector-Anti-Spark-Battery-Charger/dp/B074PTHZ3M

The spark you are getting is from the inrush current resulting from the capacitors in the controller. An empty capacitor looks like a momentary short circuit. So when you plug the battery into the controller there is a very brief high current that jumps the gap between your connectors. If you make the initial connection through a resistor then wait a few seconds for the capacitors to fill up before connecting the main you wont get a spark. There are several different ways to accomplish this. Google search "pre-charge connector" and you will find lots of ideas. The anti-spark connectors have a built in resistor on the tip of the connector. You plug them in just a tiny bit and wait a few seconds before fully engaging the connector and you wont get that spark.

 

[amberwolf]

Ive always been tempted to try a marine circuit breaker for main power. I worry about the spark from 75v killing them but like Amberwolf mentioned not being under load probably helps a lot on the arc.

I expected mine to fail from that, but it has operated perfectly fine, despite being the cheapest several-dollar unit you can get (mine was actually sent to me by AussieJester from Australia, but its' the same thing sold at any number of places). If I ever need to replace it, I'll open it up and post pics of the contacts, etc.

Using any precharge setup in parallel with this switch will negate the spark problem.


FWIW, any of the units that operates by *wiping* the contacts will work better / have lower on-resistance / less spark damage to actual contact surface than those that work by just squeezing the contacts vertically together. Note that just because the handle or knob turns doesnt' mean the contacts do, so you can't tell by that. Mine turns the handle but the contacts just go straight apart or together.

Some of these have removable handles, so they can also be a form of security device (but because they're not keyed, any handle for the same brand/model will work, so it's not truly secure--just that it's unlikely for the average person to be carrying some of the handles around to mess with things).

 

[DanGT86]

Using any precharge setup in parallel with this switch will negate the spark problem.

I guess with a pre charge resistor connected first the switch is never seeing more than a couple of volts at the moment of contact?

I think I run a 200ohm precharge resistor with my 84v max battery. I usually see all but the last 2-3v before making the main connection.

The XT-90 pre-charge "key" design is a similar security device as there is a slim chance a bike thief is carrying one of those with them.


https://forum.esk8.news/t/how-to-make-an-xt90-loop-key/2325