Recommendations on first e-bike upgrade

[Chalo]

I also heard the advice about getting a separate bike. Still not sure - I'm a minimalist at heart, and will be using the ebike a lot more, I feel like I want to stick with the frame I have because I just know I like it so much.

If you depend on your bike, you should have two. When you have two, you can approach problems that arise with an emphasis on good solutions, not just quick fixes. Keep in mind that an e-bike has more than twice the opportunities to fail compared to a pedal bike, and can be harder to diagnose.

The best virtues in an e-bike are similar to, but not identical to, those of a pedal bike. Ruggedness and reliability become more important, and utmost efficiency less important.

If what you have is a commercial model, you can get another one just like it.

 

[sryland]

If you depend on your bike, you should have two. When you have two, you can approach problems that arise with an emphasis on good solutions, not just quick fixes. Keep in mind that an e-bike has more than twice the opportunities to fail compared to a pedal bike, and can be harder to diagnose.

This sounds like good advice - I'm going to upgrade my current bike for now, and keep on the lookout for a 26" that I can do a cheap ebay DD upgrade to. For the time being I'll have a cheap Corolla at least until June that I can use as a backup.

 

[sryland]

I started with thumb and PAS...with a mix of non-stop distance travel (out of burbs, route along highway) then block by block stop and go downtown. I found my thumb would get sore, and PAS was annoyingly unresponsive from initial pedal stroke to engagement. The half twist 3 speed with green cruise button was 1000% better for my use...ditched PAS after only a week of using this throttle as there was no need.

I hadn't thought of this - plus, in winter, I can imagine my thumb getting pretty cold sticking out like that. I looked at PAS, but wouldn't even consider it without a torque sensor, which gets pretty expensive. Half-twist with 3 speed sounds like a great idea - I'm convinced!

 

[wturber]

I hadn't thought of this - plus, in winter, I can imagine my thumb getting pretty cold sticking out like that. I looked at PAS, but wouldn't even consider it without a torque sensor, which gets pretty expensive. Half-twist with 3 speed sounds like a great idea - I'm convinced!

Actually, the PAS system with KT controllers and the ability to change power levels (they call them "gears) with a push of a button on the LCD panel works well. That's what is regulating power for me (in addition to pedaling) for about 80% or more of my ride. The twist throttle is there as an as-I-need-it override for situations like where I want extra power right now.

It seems like stateofstatic is doing something similar with his cruise control and twist throttle.

 

[sryland]

I am almost ready to pull the trigger here on my em3ev order:

$300.00 Upgrade Mac Motor with Cassette - 1500w, 10T winding
$60.00 6 fet 3077 (36-52V, 25A)
$429.00 50V 18.6 AH with 33G - small triangle pack
$60.00 54.6V 5A Charger w 90/100% switch
$52.00 Alex DM24 Rim and Black Spokes
$38.00 Rear rev4
$8.00 Half Twist Throttle With 3 Speed and Cruise
$6.00 Mechanical brakes
$11.50 Simple wattmeter
Total = $964.50

Changed the motor hub type to a cassette instead of freewheel - I already have an 11T high gear with my 24 speed set, so I should just be able to swap that over, right? Is this em3ev order ready to go?

I'm also planning on ordering a Suntour NCX seat post for $75 from aliexpress.

. Probably will stick with 700c x 38/40 for now - otherwise I would have to buy new fenders for $50. I have to stop somewhere. Looking at Schwalbe, I can get the energizer plus for $37.32 from amazon - anyone had experience with them? Puncture proof (as much as possible) and good traction are important to me. I can supplement with Rhinodillo liners that I already have.

What do you think? I'm starting to get excited here.

 

[Tats]

Really good kit for first bike - wish I’d gone that route. If the bike is too quick/rapid for you at first don’t worry you get used to them quickly. If you do want/need to tune things up to smooth out ride later, that’s where the ca3 excels. Enjoy!

 

[e-beach]

Um, 700c includes 29" and 29+. So that's tires from about 18mm to 76mm in width. Your preferred 1.5" tires would be 700x38, which is a very common size for hybrids.

Speaking of accuracy, thank you for the clarification!

 

[stateofstatic]

I am almost ready to pull the trigger here on my em3ev order:

Three more things I'll add:

You've got the wrong charger! Make sure you select the 58.8V 90/100% charger, NOT the 54.6V 90/100% charger! What em3ev says is a 50V battery everyone else calls a 52V battery, and that fully charges up to 58.8V...the charger you listed is for 48V packs.

Now that I have a battery that can handle the amp draw (like you would have with the 33G triangle pack), I wish I would have gone with a 9-fet Infineon controller instead of the 6-fet. It will give you a little bit more torque on the low end for climbing (78.4 newton meters vs. 70.4 at start up to 9mph, 42nm vs. 34.6nm at 19mph on a 5% grade climb) , a little bit better efficiency (0.4%), and a little bit faster controller cooldown with the larger heatsink at speed. Since the price difference is only $16, I'd opt for the 9-fet, then get the usb data cable if you want to mess with anything in software once you get the feel for the bike...personally I lowered my torque a bit on start up from a stop so I wouldn't spin my tire out in rainy stop and go conditions. Might not be a problem for you however, as I'm using a front hub MAC.

The triangle pack...if you're gonna be locking this thing up and away from it for hours at a time (in class, shopping runs, job, etc.) look at some other members ways of securing a triangle battery other than a zipper bag with velcro straps or zip ties. This is by far the most expensive part of your build, and an easy open target for savvy thieves.

 

[Raisedeyebrows]

"The triangle pack...if you're gonna be locking this thing up and away from it for hours at a time (in class, shopping runs, job, etc.) look at some other members ways of securing a triangle battery other than a zipper bag with velcro straps or zip ties. This is by far the most expensive part of your build, and an easy open target for savvy thieves."

Good advise there, good batteries are like gold.
Can anyone recommend one of those motion detector anti-theft devices that might be good to have? I don't usually leave my bikes locked up for more than a few minutes and am highly paranoid about leaving them in situations where there's any opportunity for theives to strike but I would like to have a device in cases where it's marginal.

 

[sryland]

I am almost ready to pull the trigger here on my em3ev order:

Three more things I'll add:

You've got the wrong charger! Make sure you select the 58.8V 90/100% charger, NOT the 54.6V 90/100% charger! What em3ev says is a 50V battery everyone else calls a 52V battery, and that fully charges up to 58.8V...the charger you listed is for 48V packs.

Now that I have a battery that can handle the amp draw (like you would have with the 33G triangle pack), I wish I would have gone with a 9-fet Infineon controller instead of the 6-fet. It will give you a little bit more torque on the low end for climbing (78.4 newton meters vs. 70.4 at start up to 9mph, 42nm vs. 34.6nm at 23mph on a 5% grade climb) , a little bit better efficiency (0.4%), and a little bit faster controller cooldown with the larger heatsink at speed. Since the price difference is only $16, I'd opt for the 9-fet, then get the usb data cable if you want to mess with anything in software once you get the feel for the bike...personally I lowered my torque a bit on start up from a stop so I wouldn't spin my tire out in rainy stop and go conditions. Might not be a problem for you however, as I'm using a front hub MAC.

The triangle pack...if you're gonna be locking this thing up and away from it for hours at a time (in class, shopping runs, job, etc.) look at some other members ways of securing a triangle battery other than a zipper bag with velcro straps or zip ties. This is by far the most expensive part of your build, and an easy open target for savvy thieves.

You're right about the charger - I think I just forgot to update that from the previous battery I had. Noted!

I just looked that the amps for the controller and figured I didn't need it, but at an increase of $12 that sounds like a good upgrade.

Ahh, the battery. It turns out em3ev's website says they are out of stock anyway with those ones, waiting to hear back from them. I really like the bottle holder types, and the dolphin types, but em3ev doesn't have them. Lunacycle does, but they are way more expensive. em3ev has them in plastic rectangle form, but I couldn't see any information on attaching it to your bike. I would definitely like a plug and play solution - don't want to leave it attached to my bike. I was hoping the triangle bag would be easily removable, but I have no experience with any battery options.

 

[stateofstatic]

Can anyone recommend one of those motion detector anti-theft devices that might be good to have? I don't usually leave my bikes locked up for more than a few minutes and am highly paranoid about leaving them in situations where there's any opportunity for theives to strike but I would like to have a device in cases where it's marginal.

I used this thing for a while, but it started shorting out after a few heavy rains and randomly going off: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-Theft-Security-Alarm-110dB-Motion-Sensor-Annunciation-Lock-For-Bicycle-Bike/222668990726?hash=item33d81b2906:m:mG2AxSiZJwo5KaLfgtCTtCA

Looking at this one now, hopefully it's actually waterproof: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wsdcam-113dB-Wireless-Anti-Theft-Vibration-Motorcycle-Bicycle-Alarm-Waterproo/263445619945?hash=item3d569524e9:g:zWAAAOSwqlRaYQn4

There's also always the GPS option, but I gave up on that too...bought a seatpost with a tracker, then the vendor stopped responding to email when it wouldn't sync via bluetooth to my galaxy s7. Nice, heavy, $100 paperweight.

Ahh, the battery. It turns out em3ev's website says they are out of stock anyway with those ones, waiting to hear back from them. I really like the bottle holder types, and the dolphin types, but em3ev doesn't have them. Lunacycle does, but they are way more expensive. em3ev has them in plastic rectangle form, but I couldn't see any information on attaching it to your bike. I would definitely like a plug and play solution - don't want to leave it attached to my bike. I was hoping the triangle bag would be easily removable, but I have no experience with any battery options.

I can vouch for this Chinese vendor...free "fedex" shipping took longer than I expected (4 weeks!), but the cells were legit and my 52V 11.6AH PF is working great: https://unitpackpower.aliexpress.com/store/1178407?spm=2114.search0104.1000002.19.1bc5cd45QpLYr3

At the price point you're at for battery, I'd say this is probably the best fit: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-Long-Range-14S-Triangle-Ebike-Battery-52V-20Ah-Lithium-Battery-Pack/1178407_32833734630.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99hGIQ3u

If you want to ditch the triangle for security/portable charging, this is what I'd probably go with: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-New-Hailong-52V-16Ah-Down-Tube-Li-ion-eBike-Battery-compitable/1178407_32844147790.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99LA4PcC

 

[Raisedeyebrows]

Can anyone recommend one of those motion detector anti-theft devices that might be good to have? I don't usually leave my bikes locked up for more than a few minutes and am highly paranoid about leaving them in situations where there's any opportunity for theives to strike but I would like to have a device in cases where it's marginal.

I used this thing for a while, but it started shorting out after a few heavy rains and randomly going off: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-Theft-Security-Alarm-110dB-Motion-Sensor-Annunciation-Lock-For-Bicycle-Bike/222668990726?hash=item33d81b2906:m:mG2AxSiZJwo5KaLfgtCTtCA

Looking at this one now, hopefully it's actually waterproof: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wsdcam-113dB-Wireless-Anti-Theft-Vibration-Motorcycle-Bicycle-Alarm-Waterproo/263445619945?hash=item3d569524e9:g:zWAAAOSwqlRaYQn4

There's also always the GPS option, but I gave up on that too...bought a seatpost with a tracker, then the vendor stopped responding to email when it wouldn't sync via bluetooth to my galaxy s7. Nice, heavy, $100 paperweight.

Ahh, the battery. It turns out em3ev's website says they are out of stock anyway with those ones, waiting to hear back from them. I really like the bottle holder types, and the dolphin types, but em3ev doesn't have them. Lunacycle does, but they are way more expensive. em3ev has them in plastic rectangle form, but I couldn't see any information on attaching it to your bike. I would definitely like a plug and play solution - don't want to leave it attached to my bike. I was hoping the triangle bag would be easily removable, but I have no experience with any battery options.

I can vouch for this Chinese vendor...free "fedex" shipping took longer than I expected (4 weeks!), but the cells were legit and my 52V 11.6AH PF is working great: https://unitpackpower.aliexpress.com/store/1178407?spm=2114.search0104.1000002.19.1bc5cd45QpLYr3

At the price point you're at for battery, I'd say this is probably the best fit: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-Long-Range-14S-Triangle-Ebike-Battery-52V-20Ah-Lithium-Battery-Pack/1178407_32833734630.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99hGIQ3u

If you want to ditch the triangle for security/portable charging, this is what I'd probably go with: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-New-Hailong-52V-16Ah-Down-Tube-Li-ion-eBike-Battery-compitable/1178407_32844147790.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99LA4PcC

Thanks I decided to go ahead and give one of those wsdcam units a try, about $15.00 USD on Amazon, ticket price is low, maybe it'll work.

 

[sryland]

If you want to ditch the triangle for security/portable charging, this is what I'd probably go with: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-New-Hailong-52V-16Ah-Down-Tube-Li-ion-eBike-Battery-compitable/1178407_32844147790.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99LA4PcC

This looks like a good battery, I might go with that.

A bit more research raised another concern for me - I have an aluminum frame bike, 135mm dropout. Apparently the motor I selected is quite torquey - is this going go be an issue? I can get two torque arms, but wondering if it will still be too much stress on the frame. Also, the cassette option will add 3mm, meaning I would have to stretch the dropout 3mm wider. My impression is that this is a bad idea, and maybe I should get the freewheel option with the 7 speed DNP so that it will just slot right in. Any thoughts on these issues?

 

[wturber]

If you want to ditch the triangle for security/portable charging, this is what I'd probably go with: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-New-Hailong-52V-16Ah-Down-Tube-Li-ion-eBike-Battery-compitable/1178407_32844147790.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99LA4PcC

This looks like a good battery, I might go with that.

A bit more research raised another concern for me - I have an aluminum frame bike, 135mm dropout. Apparently the motor I selected is quite torquey - is this going go be an issue? I can get two torque arms, but wondering if it will still be too much stress on the frame. Also, the cassette option will add 3mm, meaning I would have to stretch the dropout 3mm wider. My impression is that this is a bad idea, and maybe I should get the freewheel option with the 7 speed DNP so that it will just slot right in. Any thoughts on these issues?

Two torque arms for sure. With two good torque arms, the aluminum frame you should be fine as a commuter. Stretching the dropouts 3mm may be a bad idea with an aluminum frame. I'm not sure. Hopefully others more knowledgeable than me will advise on that.

 

[sryland]

I hope so - I'm leaning now to a 7 speed freewheel so that I don't put any stress on the frame, should still do everything I want it to.

I'm still wondering if it's too powerful though - 1500 watts with a 30A controller, seems like a lot of power that I don't necessarily need. em3ev support suggested that I might downgrade to the 25A controller to ease the stress on the frame. Frankly, I don't want a rocket, just something to help me up the hills and get there a little quicker. Am I overestimating the risk on the frame, or should I ease back on the specs a bit? If I get a cycle analyst, can I reprogram the controller to use less power?

 

[S3b4]

Are the controllers different amp wise? I mean 25A vs 30A cant be this just reprogrammed via software?

 

[e-beach]

Torque arms that can clamp the axle are the best for keeping the motor torque from wearing out a soft metal.

Some ideas can be found here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29129
and here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26444&start=15

 

[sryland]

Ok, I think I really might have it this time.

$270.00 Upgrade Mac Motor - 1500w, 10T winding
$76.00 9 fet 3077 (36-52V, 30A) 
$10.00 Programming cable
$52.00 Alex DM24 Rim and Black Spokes
$38.00 Rear rev4 torque arm
$8.00 Half Twist Throttle With 3 Speed and Cruise
$20.00 2 x HWBS sensors
$6.00 DNP tool
$20.00 7sp DNP (11T) Freewheel
$90.00 Shipping
$11.50 Wattmeter from Ebay
$410.00 52V 16Ah Li-ion Battery (Shark, MH1 cells)
$1,011.50 Total

Freewheel, because it means no stretching of the hub spacing on my alum frame, and it also has 14mm for the torque arm to grip on to instead of 12mm in the cassette version.

Programming cable will let me downgrade the power output if it feels too much. Rather have a powerful motor that doesn't have to work as hard than the other way around.

HWBS sensors because the $6 brake levers look stupid

Battery from UPP through aliexpress, as recommended in this thread: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/US-EU-AU-No-Tax-New-Hailong-52V-16Ah-Down-Tube-Li-ion-eBike-Battery-compitable/1178407_32844147790.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.13ffae99LA4PcC . Might look at getting a better charger (with 80/90 option) to maintain battery life.

Will get some good tyres, some kind of schwalbe touring I'm thinking.

And now I have to wait two weeks for em3ev to come back from chinese new year holidays! :lol:

 

[Tats]

Mac with cassette is ok in a 135mm ali frame - installed one on my mates cube and had to spread rear a little. Been going great for about 3,000 kms. Definitely use torque arms, the mac is a torquey critter. CA v3 does indeed allow power to be reduced. I'd also recommend a slime tube and some tyre liners for the rear wheel to minimise the risk of a p......

 

[e-beach]

.....

HWBS sensors because the $6 brake levers look stupid

.....And now I have to wait two weeks for em3ev to come back from chinese new year holidays! :lol:

The real problem with the cheep Chinese e-break levers are that the threads on the cable barrel adjustment knob always seem to strip in just a few weeks. It may not really matter that the barrel knob strips out since I adjust the breaks at the rim via the cable every couple of weeks or so.

However I use them because I have had throttles break and be stuck in an on position. It happened to me again two days ago. I replaced the throttle with a spare I had on the shelf. Now I have 3 throttles in my box to repair.

At some point, let us know about the longevity of the HWBS sensor. It might be nice to have a functioning barrel adjuster on my break levers.

And as for the Chinese New Year.....two weeks isn't too bad. Some places take 5 weeks to get going again. I make it a point not to order from China between Feb. 1st to about the second week of March.

 

[sryland]

Mac with cassette is ok in a 135mm ali frame - installed one on my mates cube and had to spread rear a little. Been going great for about 3,000 kms. Definitely use torque arms, the mac is a torquey critter. CA v3 does indeed allow power to be reduced. I'd also recommend a slime tube and some tyre liners for the rear wheel to minimise the risk of a p......

I agree, it would probably be ok, but it's one or the other and I don't see that having a cassette is worth the extra stress on the frame. I'm getting one torque arm for sure, em3ev said one would be fine, is it worth getting two? At $38, the costs add up. I'll get another one though if it makes a difference.

Looking at Shwalbes, plus I have rhinodillos tire liners already - I could try slime as well. Always felt weird about having slime in my tube...

 

[sryland]

At some point, let us know about the longevity of the HWBS sensor. It might be nice to have a functioning barrel adjuster on my break levers.

Will do. There's a bit of vanity there in wanting to keep my bike components matching, and I don't like the cheaping out on any part of the braking system. Hopefully the HWBS sensors do the trick, I'll try to remember to chime back in later.

And as for the Chinese New Year.....two weeks isn't too bad. Some places take 5 weeks to get going again. I make it a point not to order from China between Feb. 1st to about the second week of March.

Yeah, I'm not in a big hurry anyway, and everyone deserves a holiday!

 

[stateofstatic]

Looks like a solid build my dude! As for the schwalbe tires, I've been running the 700x40c Little Big Bens and love em. Low rolling resistance, great grip on dry or wet pavement, decent in gravel/dirt, ebike rated to 50km/h), no flats so far over the course of a year, and CUSHY...was a massive difference in comfort going to this from 700x32c gatorskin slicks. For your frame, you could go with the Big Ben Plus which is 700x50c...the plus model gives up a little bit of rolling resistance in exchange for much better puncture protection. I can't imagine how plush the ride would be on those, probably would end up locking out your front fork 90% of the time.

A piece of advice once you get it built: Keep it on low power (with the 3 speed switch) for a couple weeks in your day to day commute to get really (and I mean REALLY) comfortable/confident maneuvering, panic breaking, judging traffic/pedestrians, and so forth...it takes a little while for your hand/eye coordination and reaction time to adjust to the new acceleration and constant speed, not to mention judging braking distances. Also, about braking there is a company called Kool Stop that makes some ebike specific brake pads that made a massive difference in my stopping power in both the dry and wet...might want to send them an email directly with your brake model to see if they can send you a pair as they only sell those pads in Germany. Luckily I live 24mi from their factory and was able to get some on-site.

 

[sryland]

Looks like a solid build my dude! As for the schwalbe tires, I've been running the 700x40c Little Big Bens and love em. Low rolling resistance, great grip on dry or wet pavement, decent in gravel/dirt, ebike rated to 50km/h (31mph), no flats so far over the course of a year, and CUSHY...was a massive difference in comfort going to this from 700x32c gatorskin slicks. For your frame, you could go with the Big Ben Plus which is 700x50c...the plus model gives up a little bit of rolling resistance in exchange for much better puncture protection. I can't imagine how plush the ride would be on those, probably would end up locking out your front fork 90% of the time.

A piece of advice once you get it built: Keep it on medium power (with the 3 speed switch) for a couple weeks in your day to day commute to get really (and I mean REALLY) comfortable/confident maneuvering, panic breaking, judging traffic/pedestrians, and so forth. By all means crank it up to max and do some top speed runs up and down a long street to test out your new toy...but it takes a little while for your hand/eye coordination and reaction time to adjust to the new acceleration and constant speed, not to mention judging braking distances. Also, about braking there is a company called Kool Stop that makes some ebike specific brake pads that made a massive difference in my stopping power in both the dry and wet...might want to send them an email directly with your brake model to see if they can send you a pair as they only sell those pads in Germany. Luckily I live 24mi from their factory and was able to get some on-site.

The Big Bens look good - I might even go with the little big bens, I already have nice fenders on the bike, and would like to keep it looking as much like a normal bike as possible.

I might even just leave it on medium power or less permanently. I'm not a speed freak at all, happy to just get some help up the hills really.

I found the kool stop ebike brakes on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Lightweight-Version-Electric/dp/B00D6016MM/ - they look great.