Regen function as generator in serial hybrid

Yodany

100 µW
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Romania
Hi,
This is my first post here so I thank everyone for their contribution to this informative forum.

I am interested to know if the regen function on a serial hybrid can be used as a generator function for a longer period? So while on the way the engine is driving the boat and charges the battery in the same time using the controller’s regen function.

Is there any time limitation or power limitation when doing this? Do I need something else in the system to achieve this?

Thank you,

Yodany
 
Using regen on any vehicle to charge while moving wastes power, because it takes more power to generate the movement than you can get back out of the regen, and performing regen slows you down, so it takes more power again to keep you moving.

This will empty your battery faster, not refill it.

The only thing regen can do without wasting power is to slow you down when you *want* to slow down, and recapture a portion of that energy back into the battery.

Using regen at the same time you are trying to keep moving is wasting energy, not recovering it.


If you use the electric motor to drive the vehicle, you can't use it for regen at the same time.


If instead you are using a combustion engine to drive an electric motor as a generator, while also using the combustion engine directly to mechanically move you forward, then that isn't any different from the alternator in a car/etc., so it will do the same job, depending on your system design...but it's still using up power from your engine to do the charging.


If you are using a CE to drive an EM as a generator and there is then a separate EM that drives the vehicle forward, then you can still move forward with the second EM while the CE uses the first EM to charge the battery and run the second EM.


If you have some other system, you'd need to define that before we could say how it might work.
 
Hi amberwolf,

I know all the things you have exposed above and maybe I have to detail a bit more my thinking and system.

On a boat I have an engine that develops 40kW and would like to transform it t into a hybrid by attaching to the shaft an electric motor with a LiFePo battery. The boat will be used in a reserve and I would like to be able to drive in electric mode for a period of time at slow speed till the battery is depleted than switch to the diesel and continue the drive.

While driving on diesel I would like to use the regen function on the controller to charge the battery so after an hour or so to be able to use it again. The question is.., can the regen be used for prolonged periods of time and use the motor as an alternator or is there a limit?

The setup I am looking at is Motenergy 20kW motor with a Curtis or Sevcon controller.

Cheers
 
While driving on diesel I would like to use the regen function on the controller to charge the battery so after an hour or so to be able to use it again. The question is.., can the regen be used for prolonged periods of time and use the motor as an alternator or is there a limit?

As long as the load you're placing on the motor as a generator is no worse than the load it's designed to see as a motor, it should work fine, and that load is at the normal RPM the motor runs at for that amount of load as a motor.

If the motor as generator runs at slower RPM for the same load it would normally run as motor at higher RPM, it could get hotter than it should.

The controller's regen function you'd need to look at how the specific brand/model you're going to use is designed, and what kind of waste heat the function will generate.

There are multiple ways regen can work. Some of them are more efficient than others.

Some just passively rectify current from the motor phases back to the battery as long as the motor voltage is higher than the battery voltage. This is the cheapest in terms of power cost--the battery does nothing except receive charge current, and the controller does nothing but passively rectify phase to DC. But it creates heat in all the FETs because they are being used as diodes, and there is loss across those diode drops. The controller doesn't even have to be "on" to do this (doesn't even require it's "brain" to be functional).

Some actively switch the motor phases with the right timing to generate "flyback" pulses that are "always" higher voltage than battery so that regardless of motor RPM they'll charge the battery at least a little bit. This uses some power to keep running the controller, but has less or no diode losses in the FETs, so the controller can heat much less if it's driven correctly by the controller.

Some of them are not designed for power recovery (and technically aren't regen but are still often labelled as that), but instead are designed for higher braking power and actively use power to force the motor to push against the direction of rotation. You don't want those kinds of "regen" for your purpose. ;) (they also heat up both the motor and controller significantly)



Your battery must also be able to safely charge at the current your system will generate.

It might be safest to have a BMS of some type on the cells that monitors them for HVC and LVC, and uses an output line to tell the controller to shutdown if either one is tripped. (using a typical BMS to just disconnect the battery from the controller during regen can cause the controller voltage to spike and blow up the controller, depending on the type of regen used and the motor RPM at the time).

If the controller is advanced enough to monitor current and modulate it to not exceed the safe cell charging current, I'd definitely recommend setting it up that way.
 
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Thank you very much for the advice. This will definitely help me choose the correct system. I have seen Curtis has a complex regen so I might go with that.
 
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