Review my build

[rogerc]

First a couple questions,
I keep reading where alum frames should not be used in building an ebike, then I read that it is okay for a rear hub with torque arm installed.
I am 6'3 inches 228 lbs and 60 years old. I am mostly building this for fire type roads that have some inclines. Will an alum frame with torque arm installed handle my weight with this type of riding and the motor posted below?
Also, is disc brakes really better or should I settle on the old style v brakes since this appears to be an easier fit.

Still looking for a good bike on Craigslist and will purchase kit from EM3 when I find the right bike. I want an XL frame and there aren't a lot of them out there. Looking for XL Giant or Specialized type bike.

I want this build to do the following:
Not interested in anything over 20mph, more interested in being able to climb hills and run up fire roads that have inclines. Remember I am 60 not 30.
Would like 30 mile range.
3 or 4 levels of peddle assist. I have not been able to find out if this kit has peddle assist or how to set it up.
Would like an easy build.

Now please review my build and give me any recommendation, changes, insight that you may have before I purchase.
Here is the kit I am thinking of ordering:
Upgraded EM3ev vers.
Mac , 500/1000W Pick'n'Mix Kit
- Controller Type 9 fet 30A (36-48V, IRFB3077)
- Motor Speed 255rpm loaded @36V 10T Rear Hub Motor
- Wheel Type 26" Alex DH19 CNC or disc????
- Throttle Type Half Twist
- Ebrakes Yes
Grin Tech Universal Rear Torque arm, Rev. 4

Battery will be the following:
14S 9P, 50V 18.5Ah Samsung SDI Battery Pack uses the SDI ICR18650-22P 3C rated cell combined with their custom EM3ev triangle bag.

ALUMINIUM CASE CHARGER 58.8V 5A,14S LI ION/NCM (WITH SWITCH) I hope this is the right charger.

Cycle Analyst Version 3 or CYCLE ANALYST EBIKE COMPUTER, CA-DPS, VERS.2.3.

Is there anything else I need to order?

 

[Joseph C.]

Looks like you have made a well-informed choice.

Get some good puncture resistant tyres while you are at it too. If you are going V-brakes ask Paul if he has any long-pull e-brakes.

 

[rogerc]

Looks like you have made a well-informed choice.

Without the help of all the guru's here I would not be well informed.
Thanks everyone for your knowledge and contributions.

Again will this kit give me peddle assist?
Roger

 

[Brentis]

Looks like your component choices will meet your needs.
If you are really into PAS(peddle assist) then I'd suggest researching ebikes.ca. They offer the the THUN pas which seems pretty slick.
I would also suggest that since you are still hunting for a bike, hunt for steel.
Its harder to find cromo frames nowadays, but I think more suited to a legal hardtail build. All depends on the quality of the frames you can source though. You want a quality frame with as flat and big a dropout area as possible. Trust me.

good luck

 

[DAND214]

I like most of your choices.
But if you plan on taking on long hills I would consider the 12t. You said 20mph is all you need and 30 mile range. the 10t on 50v is still fast.

As for brakes, I kow I'm gonna get a lot of crap for it, but try to go for the disc. Hydros if possible with big rotors. At least that is what I like.

Why do you want pedal assist? Or is it that you need?

As for the throttle, always buy an extra or two, they are cheap.

Dan

 

[Brentis]

I like most of your choices.
But if you plan on taking on long hills I would consider the 12t. You said 20mph is all you need and 30 mile range. the 10t on 50v is still fast.
Solid advise.

As for brakes, I kow I'm gonna get a lot of crap for it, but try to go for the disc. Hydros if possible with big rotors. At least that is what I like.
I won't give you crap. No one should. There is no substitute.
Knowing nothing but a few stabs at both. :lol:
An average set-up Hydro disc will out preform all but the best rimjobs.
Long argument here ----
Locked wheel is a locked wheel----
I think it comes down to feel.
I can stoppie ScootBike easily, HYDRO disc of avg. quality., soft fork, with "feel" control-ability.
I have only had a couple of good rimjobs with which I could control "endo angle" but they were a state of constant maintenance
My hydro goes on, year after year. almost no maintenance, unsung hero that it is. :wink:
Why do you want pedal assist? Or is it that you need?

As for the throttle, always buy an extra or two, they are cheap.

Dan

 

[John in CR]

30 miles of range climbing hills and fire roads seems optimistic unless you use the bike as electric assist instead of pedal assist.

 

[d8veh]

A PAS with several different levels makes riding a bike much more comfortable. Most controllers without LED/LCD displays have poorly thought out algorithms for PAS power in them, so are a complete waste of time.

There's not many high power controllers that have LCD displays. You can get them from Conhismotor. I have one of their 750w ones that gives 30 amps max on My GNG mid drive. It has 5 PAS levels. It makes the ride very pleasant compared with the GNG controller. It works really well except that it senses the speed from the motor halls, so reads zero when free-wheeling. It doesn't affect the motor control in any way. There's probably an internal connection for the wheel-speed sensor if you could find it.

Another controller is the sine-wave S12S from BMSBattery. It gives 23 amps as standard. I've just soldered the shunt for a bit more, and I'm presently wiring it up, so should have some results later today. Because of the lower current, I'd use this one at 48v with a MAC. It has a wheel-speed sensor, so displays the speed correctly. You have to order the wheel-speed sensor and LCD as separate items along with the throttle and PAS sensor.

 

[dogman dan]

Coming from years of motorcycles, I took to using a throttle like a baby to the tit. But I do see your point about wanting PAS.

I think just from reading about it, you don't want to use crappy crude pas. Look into Grin Cyclery, and their continuing development of better PAS. Justin is a true genius, and btw owns this website and provides it commercial free.

So, you might want to buy the controller and cycleanalyst from Grin.

Since fire roads can be crazy steep, I recommend getting the slowest winding motor you can. Get the 12t. In that terrain, you will do well to get 10-12 miles of range. Steep dirt is just that harsh. Carrying more battery to get 30 mile range on rough roads is even harsher. It just wrecks the handling of the bike too much. Think in terms of rides up to 15 miles long, and perhaps get a small generator to recharge when you take a trip to the hills.

30 mile range on paved roads, even fairly steep ones is reasonable though.

Ebrakes. You cannot have ebrakes with a freewheeling planetary gearmotor such as the Mac. You could get the 10t DD motor and have ebrakes. With the mac, you will still be able to have an electronic throttle cut off on the brakes, but not regenerative braking.

On to the bike. YOU WILL WANT REASONABLY GOOD FULL SUSPENSION FOR WASHBOARD DIRT ROADS. V brakes will do since you are not so likely to be bombing down at 50 mph, but disk on the front tire will be a good thing. Decent forks nowdays nearly all have disk anyway.

 

[Joseph C.]

Ebrakes. You cannot have ebrakes with a freewheeling planetary gearmotor such as the Mac. You could get the 10t DD motor and have ebrakes. With the mac, you will still be able to have an electronic throttle cut off on the brakes, but not regenerative braking.

You're going to confuse him with this. He isn't talking about regenerative braking but cut-off brakes - ebrakes.

 

[Drunkskunk]

I think you have made good choices so far. The 10T is a good match for pedal assist. If you had not planned to pedal at all and just run on motor alone, the 12t would have been a better choice.

The Cycle Analyst Version 3 is the best match for pedal assist. There are several ways to setup a pedal assist, and Justin is the master of such things.

However, In my oppinion, the best form of pedal assist is a conventional throttle. Instead of fixed levels of assist, you can have dynamic levels of assist, changing second by second, as your brain decides how much assist you feel you want. If the hill gets a little steeper for the next 20 feet, you can add a little more throttle and keet the pressure on your legs exactly the same as you clear that area.

As for brakes, any brake that can lock up the wheel is capable of maximum braking. It makes no diffrence what type they are, especialy below 20mph. However if you ride in a lot of mud, water, or snow, the rim can get coated and cause issues. here a disk brake would be an advantage.

While steel is the ideal, Aluminum frames are just fine. With any bike you want to use a torque arm, which negates any weakness that the aluminum would have.

 

[d8veh]

I finally wired up my S12S controller today. It's very impressive. It''s nominally 23 amps, but I added a blob of solder to the shunt to get it up to about 25 amps. They say it has torque simulation software in it. I can''t figure out exactly what it's doing, but the power algorithms do a very good job to make cycling at any PAS level very pleasant. It's a sine-wave controller, so it makes the motor significantly quieter. Another significant advantage it has is the ability to switch off your system without having to disconnect the battery, so no more sparks or pre-charging system. They claim that the system only leaks less than a microamp, so it would take 2000 years for your battery to drain. It also seems to switch automatically between 36v and 48v. Don't ask me how it does it.

You guys that use throttle-only don't know what you're missing. Things are moving on.

Anybody doing a new build and requiring about 25 amps should give this controller serious consideration.

 

[rogerc]

Getting closer to ordering for the build.
Thanks for all the input.
Keep it coming.
Roger

I like most of your choices.
But if you plan on taking on long hills I would consider the 12t. You said 20mph is all you need and 30 mile range. the 10t on 50v is still fast.
As for brakes, I kow I'm gonna get a lot of crap for it, but try to go for the disc. Hydros if possible with big rotors. At least that is what I like.
Dan

Will be going with a 12T for my build, sounds like it will give me better torque.
After I complete the build and if I like the bike over all I am going to improve the front fork and add Hydro brakes. I love the Hydros on my BH Emotion Neo Cross.

Its harder to find cromo frames nowadays, but I think more suited to a legal hardtail build. All depends on the quality of the frames you can source though. You want a quality frame with as flat and big a dropout area as possible. Trust me.
good luck

Just can't find a steel frame in an XL. I am probably going to buy a used Giant Boulder SE this coming week.

 

[hjns]

Nice.

I don't know about an XL frame, but I would be looking at something like this CroMo frame. You can use both V-brakes and Disc brakes on it.

I fully agree to get a good suspension fork on it. Even at 15-20mph, after more than 15 minutes you will be very grateful for the suspension, allowing you to become less fatigued. It does not need to be expensive. Just make sure it is adjustable using air. Any used Rock Shox SID will do. As mentioned by others, most suspension forks will be prepared for disc brakes. Get some used hydraulic brakes, rebleed them, and you will be good to go.

Use the slowest speed motor you can get, make sure to get torque arms on both sides, and get the highest capacity battery. 30 miles is a LONG way, especially when it is hilly. You will probably need a pack of at least 20Ah, which may turn out to be around 10kg. Take good care how you are going to fix this onto your bike, especially when on hilly roads.

The CAv3 and the Thun are probably the nicest for you. However, this won't make it an "easy" build, because it takes a lot of time to read all the info on the CAv3, and then to dial-in the combo to suit your needs. Note that I really really love the CA, and will never build another bike without it.

Just make sure you have simulated what you want, so play with the simulator first.

 

[mailmanx]

While steel is the ideal, Aluminum frames are just fine. With any bike you want to use a torque arm, which negates any weakness that the aluminum would have.

Hello, could anyone confirm this?

 

[rogerc]

Ordered everything from Cellman last week.
Went with 10T motor after riding another build and found it more than adequate for the hills I will be riding.
Bought a new Giant Revel Mountain Bike for the build. It has disk brakes, 7 speeds, only thing I need to get is new shifters on the handle bars since the oem were the stupid brake and shifter molded together.
Getting the ebrakes so just need to add some shifters.
Got the CA version 3.
Now just trying to read everything that I can to get ready for the build. Got it all plug and play.
First build so a little nervous.
Deciding on tires now looking at the Maxxis Crossmark. This bike will be a 50/50 bike for fire roads and pavement.
Thanks for all the help, I am sure once the kits arrive that I will be back with a lot of questions.
Roger