Riding in deep rutted snow

[electr0n]

We've got a pretty huge snow storm here (Toronto area) today. Snow is between 6" and 12" and deeper in some places. I tried to take my bike out this morning for my daily commute and quickly realized it wasn't going to happen. I got a Schwalbe ice spiker on the front and a snow stud on the rear. I found my rear wheel was mostly spinning through the snow and I was burning up 1400 to 2000 watts trying to plow through the snow at slow speed and was all over the place.

I've ridden my fair share of snow storms in the past couple years I've been commuting and normally I'm able to manage well enough but I was defeated today. So I'm wondering if putting fatter tires would help at all? Something like fat knobby dirt bike tires? Any ideas aside from bolting a ski onto the front?

 

[bio]

Just one word Ktrak

But u need a middrive.

 

[arkmundi]

[youtube]1WmRoqmtLoc[/youtube]

 

[dogman dan]

Foot of pow, it's time to ski. What a storm this one is shaping up to be!

Today in my yard, it's 70F right now. Muahhhahhahha.

 

[electr0n]

I would love to be in your area for the winter dogman. I could totally do without snow and -20c weather. Although I`m not sure how pleasant it would be in the scorching summer. I just tried to take my bike out for another joy ride in over a foot of snow and it was utterly useless. That snow bike attachment above looks like fun but I suppose I`ll just settle for taking the bus or catching a ride for the couple odd days per year I`m not able to ride. The bike just isn't able to deal with deep snow maybe 4 to 5 inches is about tops.

 

[MadRhino]

Riding on a thick snowy street happens only a few times a year. Most of the time it is dirty salted slush, that gives better traction but much harder on bike's components. On fresh thick snow, put your headphones on and play "Let's twist again".

 

[John in CR]

I would love to be in your area for the winter dogman. I could totally do without snow and -20c weather. Although I`m not sure how pleasant it would be in the scorching summer. I just tried to take my bike out for another joy ride in over a foot of snow and it was utterly useless. That snow bike attachment above looks like fun but I suppose I`ll just settle for taking the bus or catching a ride for the couple odd days per year I`m not able to ride. The bike just isn't able to deal with deep snow maybe 4 to 5 inches is about tops.

Here it's low to mid 20's C year round. We get a few bad months during rainy season, but by bad I mean glorious mornings and rain in the afternoon. You can even fine tune it further, because there are many distinct micro climates here in the central valley. My favorite was on the other side of the valley at 1540m, but the family whined too much about it being too cold with the upper teens at night.

John

 

[Punx0r]

I recently rode my ebike for the first time in snow, 4-6 inches of fresh stuff. It's surprising how much force it takes to push the front wheel through the snow. Top speed was down to 23-24 mph. The worst problem is the big, frozen ruts hidden beneath the snow...

 

[electr0n]

John I'm totally envious of your location as well, looks like an amazing place to live and ride. Those monster hills must eat up the amp hours though.

MadRhino, My components are completely shot. Everything is rusting out. My rim brakes won't spring back into an open position anymore, I can no longer pedal due to bent derailleur. I'm riding a junky bike anyway. Bike stays outdoor year round so that doesn't help either. Will probably get another cheap replacement this summer.

Punx0r, yah riding in snow that deep is like riding uphill in terms of power consumption. I find once I get some momentum I can plow through a few inches deep well enough but this last major storm was too much. I even had trouble walking through the stuff let alone riding the bike. I usually ride the sidewalks when there's stuff on the ground. Fresh snow a couple inches deep is kinda fun to ride in but once people start making tracks that get packed down and frozen it's hard to control the bike.

Kind of unrelated but I just made a heated shirt tonight. Being exposed to the frigid weather while riding I find is one of the most unpleasant parts of riding year round here. With the heated shirt plus a helmet it'll be almost as good as riding in a car.

I wonder if having the battery weight over the rear motorized wheel rather than the front wheel would help with traction in the deep stuff? I was watching some videos of guys riding in deep snow on their dirt bikes.

 

[montyp]

I’m only going to post this because this forum is pretty much anonymous and no one will tell my runner wife what prefer to ride outside the house.

During the winter when it is cold and dark out , you gotta ride fatties. As big as you can fit. It is really pretty surprising how little pressure it takes to ride them fatties. I know that some people this it’s shameful to ride fatties, but during the winter it is hard to get friction. There is no shame in the game. Even though it’s not great friction, I think we can all agree that some not-so-great friction is better than no friction at all. I’m pretty sure that some members of this forum would even say they prefer fatties to the skinny ones. They ride fatties all year round!!!

electr0n, since you’re in Toronto and so close to the US you should have no problem finding something really wide and soft to ride. Just stop in any town in Upstate New York and they’re all over the place. I know there are some in Canada. Manitoba seems to have no shortage of fatties.

Just remember, like any other time you are planning to ride, use protection. Wear a hat. Maybe goggles. If you know it’s going be sloppy, consider a full-body water-proof covering.

Good Luck!!!

 

[hjns]

Hi electr0n,

I have a Schwalbe Fat Albert 2.4" on the rear, and a Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro in front. Both at low pressures around 2.1 Bar. I can manage single rock/dirt trails with snow up to 1 foot (30cm) high, indeed burning 1-2kW to get through at 10-15kmh. The occasional hump of 50-60cm (2feet) of snow is no problem, but will take much more juice (2-4kW). No way for me and my cromotor to get through continuous 2 feet of snow; as you say, the rear wheel just keeps sliding.

Higher speeds will get me sliding, loose balance, and fall, so 10-15kmh is usually the max I can do, going straight only. All curves are a challenge in snow without skis, but I can not take my Völkl Racetiger RC with me to work.

I want to try the 2.7" Maxxis Minion to see if there is a difference between the Fat Albert 2.4 and the Maxxis Minion 2.7, in the snow.

With the temperature down to -6/ -10oC (below 20oF), I wear a full-protection motor gear, including water-proof gloves, -trousers and -jacket, including balaclava and a helmet with a visor.

 

[electr0n]

Hey hjns and montyp.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm going to go with a fatter more aggressive tire on the rear next winter. I may try experimenting by putting the batteries on a rear rack instead of the front mount I'm currently using as well, that should help with traction. The Schwalbe snow stud I'm running on the rear I find doesn't work well enough in the deep snow, although it does work well enough to avoid me slipping on ice. I have more confidence in the Schwalbe ice spiker I'm running in the front. I have yet to fall due to losing traction since running the studded tires but they are not so effective for deep snow.

As for riding gear I presently wear a balaclava on the coldest days with a hoodie, big bulky mitts a pair of cheap nylon pants, warm winter boots, water resistant jacket and a couple layers of sweaters and long sleeve shirts beneath. I stay pretty warm and dry most of the time, although my hands do freeze at times and my nose runs like crazy when it's cold out. I want to get some pogies or bar mitts for next season. Also full face helmet should make the winter ride a lot more comfortable.

hjns, do you have any problem with visor fog? Is yours a double lens? I'm debating between full face and motocross style with ski goggles.

 

[montyp]

On a serious note, I've been riding every day to work the last couple of winters north of Toronto, in Minneapolis. So I'm sure my commute is pretty similar to yours. My recommendation is to go with front wheel drive and wide tires. Then the bike is really all-wheel drive, because if you need power to the rear you just have to pedal harder. With snow and ice there is only so much power you can transfer in one powered wheel. That max transfer power is typically way below doing wheelies. You just have to make sure the front wheel is pointed in the right direction when you apply power.

Also, I'm serious about the low pressure-wide tires. I run about 0.7 bar in my rear tire. Your chances of getting a flat are a lot lower in the winter when you're riding over snow. I think the plowing cleans most of the stuff that gives you flats. Also, I've found that really knobby tires are not good in the winter. They get fill up with snow and get really heavy. They also throw a lot of mess around and give inconsistent traction when they go from no slop to full of slop.

The Ice Spikers are pretty aggressive are they filling with snow? If you are riding over snow covered ice or just thick snow the studs are going to be worthless.

Good Luck!

 

[montyp]

Hey hjns and montyp.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm going to go with a fatter more aggressive tire on the rear next winter. I may try experimenting by putting the batteries on a rear rack instead of the front mount I'm currently using as well, that should help with traction. The Schwalbe snow stud I'm running on the rear I find doesn't work well enough in the deep snow, although it does work well enough to avoid me slipping on ice. I have more confidence in the Schwalbe ice spiker I'm running in the front. I have yet to fall due to losing traction since running the studded tires but they are not so effective for deep snow.

As for riding gear I presently wear a balaclava on the coldest days with a hoodie, big bulky mitts a pair of cheap nylon pants, warm winter boots, water resistant jacket and a couple layers of sweaters and long sleeve shirts beneath. I stay pretty warm and dry most of the time, although my hands do freeze at times and my nose runs like crazy when it's cold out. I want to get some pogies or bar mitts for next season. Also full face helmet should make the winter ride a lot more comfortable.

hjns, do you have any problem with visor fog? Is yours a double lens? I'm debating between full face and motocross style with ski goggles.

I'm hoping you got the humor in my first post

Sounds weird, but I've found that my nose runs when I'm not wearing good goggles.

Minneapolis probably has the highest concentration of riders that ride when it is > 0F. Pretty much the standard issue winter riding out fit is:

Skateboard/Snowboarding helmet
http://urbanvelo.org/nutcase-snow-sport-helmet/
There are a couple of brands made with earmuffs that are really good.

Snowboarding/snowmobile Goggles
Any good snowboard goggles with double lenses won't fog. I use Smith that are made for wearing over prescription glasses. My glasses fog up, but I haven't had any problems with my goggles.

Layers on upper body. In fact, a lot of people are doing layers of jackets. You can pick up used over-sized jackets that were popular in the 90's and put them over your regular jacket.

Snowboard pants or rain pants.

Winter Boots/Winter bike Boots.
I wear Lake Winter Boots, but if it gets below -10F I wear Sorel boots.

"Chopper" gloves or deer skin gloves.
I use ice fishing gloves and still have all my fingers. No problems the friday before last when it was -12F on my way to work.

 

[MadRhino]

Wide tires are floating on the snow, good on thick fresh snow where spikes wouldn't help much anyway, but you need to get used to it and gain confidence. I use 3 in wide, soft mud tires for this.

On hard pack snow or ice, spikes are perfect and wide tires are not a must, but wider means better surface for more studs. I like 2.1 to 2.4 in wide and hard for studded tires, they sink deeper than the 3 in and give the spikes a better chance to grip.

Riding on slippery surface is long to get used to. It is not natural to be confident with drifting and floating, some will never get it. Floating rides much nicer with speed, once the bike is floating consistently the handling becomes even and more natural.

 

[hjns]

hjns, do you have any problem with visor fog? Is yours a double lens? I'm debating between full face and motocross style with ski goggles.

If you have the ski-helmet / motocross helmet, just get the ski goggles and be done with it. If you are considering buying new stuff, here is some food for thought.

I use this helmet:

Visor is half-face, only covers eyes. I use the balaclava to cover my mouth, and if necessary, my nose. No problems with fog.

See also:

I'm not as good looking as this last model, but with the helmet I am getting close...

 

[johnm]

I live in Vermont and ride year round. This is what I have on my salty.acerbic roost guards atf electric hot grips rigid industry 2600 led light studded front tire only.stickey rear non studded tire full suspension. Fenders.extra tire pressure when really cold.(bent re rim 2 yrs ago crossing re tracks at high speed in. - 22 deg fer. Snowmobile helmet when below 0.

 

[Punx0r]

I nearly forgot about the requirement for goggles/glasses...

By the time I got to 20mph, every snowflake that struck my eye triggered an unsuppressible blink reflex. It was like riding in a stop-motion film...